Misc. NHL Talk 2017/18 Regular Season: Chapter 2

[deadhead]

With Couts and Patrick....then Frost in the way, it just makes no sense to dump 10+ million into a C on a long term contract.

Hell I would rather offer Thornton a big 1 year deal.

Stealing my ideas, I see!
Problem is from what I've read Thornton likes San Jose, so you probably can't pry him away.
But a 1-2 year veteran patch to upgrade Filppula would make sense.

 

[Lindberg]

With Couts and Patrick....then Frost in the way, it just makes no sense to dump 10+ million into a C on a long term contract.

Hell I would rather offer Thornton a big 1 year deal.

I think Paul Statsny would be a good guy to kick the tires on. Play him at center until Frost arrives and then move him to wing. Moving on from Simmonds this off season would be the best thing the Flyers do.

 

[Striiker]

Well if we have Couturier and Tavares and Patrick is playing third line minutes isn't that also wasting a premium asset? He's not playing over Tavares any time soon and Couturier was outstanding this year so I would imagine he's not going to be playing over him for at least a few years unless he declines. So someone has to either get third line minutes or move to wing in this scenario. If Patrick can have the type of season Giroux had on the wing, I would prefer that over him being a third line center, even if he is "more valuable" as a center, it is not necessarily the case on the third line if he is going to have a bigger impact on the wing playing with let's say Voracek and Tavares or Giroux and Couturier.

You’re getting too hung up on a label.

Put him as “3C” and then just play the 3rd line more and the 4th line less... each of the top 3 lines can end up with 18-20 minutes.

Not difficult.

 

[Tripod]

Just reading about Bergevin's press conference yesterday and the meltdown from Habs fans. Boy does this sound like Hakstol when asked about the rookies, and he would quickly give credit to vets.

“You were 30th in goals scored. Where do you even begin, Marc?

“Well, it starts with Carey Price..”

 

[Tripod]

"I told Carey that around 99% of people like him and he shouldn't pay attention to the 1%. He's a sensitive guy, maybe the criticism affected him." -Marc Bergevin

 

[Tripod]

I came across this and thought I would share.

 

[Rebels57]

Just reading about Bergevin's press conference yesterday and the meltdown from Habs fans. Boy does this sound like Hakstol when asked about the rookies, and he would quickly give credit to vets.

“You were 30th in goals scored. Where do you even begin, Marc?

“Well, it starts with Carey Price..”

Bergevin is a world-class POS.

So glad we have 1 less East team to worry about as long as hes there.

 

[baudib1]

I like Patrick as much as the next guy, but casually projecting him to 60 points next year is insanity.

Giroux didn't top 50 points until he was 23. Schenn was "the best player not in the NHL" and he didn't hit 60 points until his 7th season.

45 points will be a nice, solid season for him next year, and he needs to stay healthy to do that.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I like Patrick as much as the next guy, but casually projecting him to 60 points next year is insanity.

Giroux didn't top 50 points until he was 23. Schenn was "the best player not in the NHL" and he didn't hit 60 points until his 7th season.

45 points will be a nice, solid season for him next year, and he needs to stay healthy to do that.

Giroux and Schenn also weren’t 2nd overall picks and before injury consensus first overall.

 

[Lindberg]

Patrick is much more physical mature than Giroux at his age. Schenn has the IQ of a brick (being hyperbolic).

 

[FlyTimmo]

Patrick is much more physical mature than Giroux at his age. Schenn has the IQ of a brick (being hyperbolic).

Nope. No you are not.

You know the whole thing, 1st man takes the body, 2nd takes the puck on a forecheck? Well... especially in his early years with us Schenn was great at being the 2nd man and still taking the body.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Sean Monahan jumped from 34 points in 75 games his rookie year to 62 points in 81 games his sophomore year. He was averaging 15:59 minutes his first year then jumped to 19:37 the second year.

Patrick had 30 points 73 games while averaging 13:43 this year. He put up better underlying numbers than Monahan despite the horrid start too. Patrick’s more advanced defensively at this point between the two.

If Patrick gets Simmonds spot on the top PP unit & gets consistent top 6 minutes while staying relatively healthy. I think 60 points is doable. Hopefully he gets an expanded role next even defensively at ES & on the PK but who knows with the conservative asshole behind the bench.

 

[Magua]

I’m as conservative projecting as anyone, but if Nolan plays 75+ games and PP1, 45 points is a disappointment.

 

[deadhead]

The top three picks tend to be in a different category than say #8 (Couts) or later 1st rd picks.
Patrick, if he had been healthy his draft year probably would have gone ahead of Nico.
At 17, two years before the draft, he had a heck of a junior campaign, topped off with a first class playoff, 21g 13-17 30 +19
He was listed at 6'2 199 at the combine last summer, by next fall I suspect he'll be more like 210-215 after a summer working out.

Elite players show up pretty quickly, unless they're drafted by Edmonton
Second season
Hall #1-10 61g 27-26 53
Seguin #2-10 81g 29-38 67
Nugent-Hopkins #1-11 40g 4-20-24 [E}
Landeskog #2-11 36g 9-8 17 (next year 81g 26-39 65)
Yakupov #1-12 48g 17-14 31 [E]
Galchenyuk #3-12 65g 13-18 31
MacKinnon #1-13 64g 14-24 38
Barkov #2-13 71g 16-20 36 (next year 66g 28-31 59)
Reinhart #2-14 79g 23-19 42
Draisaitl #3-14 72g 19-32 51 (next year 82g 29-48 77)
McDavid #1-15
Eichel #2-15 61g 24-33 57
Matthews #1-16
Laine #2-16 82g 44-26 70
Dubois #3-16 82g 20-28 48

Since it's pretty obvious that Patrick isn't going to be a flop (Hopkins, Yakupov, or even Galchenyuk), we're looking at somewhere in the 40-50 range at worst, and 60-70 if he stays healthy. While a number of these guys broke out their third season, Patrick's more likely to break out his second year, since he's already got the big body and polished instincts. He just has to get into shape (hard to do when you spend two straight summers recovering from surgery).

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Washington drafted Samsonov in the first round in 2015 & extending Holtby to a five year deal that summer. I think all along their plan was hopefully they found a replacement towards the end of that contract. Grubauer stepping up this year might have expedited that process & with two years left on Holtby’s current deal at $6.1M caphit they might be able to get a nice return. Samsonov’s KHL deal is up this spring/summer & I believe the plan all along was to bring him over anyway for next year. Perhaps they go with Grubauer & him as their goalies next year & move Holtby.

Apparently Samsonov is on his way over now to sign his ELC & finish out with Hershey in the AHL.

 

[Tripod]

I’m as conservative projecting as anyone, but if Nolan plays 75+ games and PP1, 45 points is a disappointment.

It all depends....does he get good Jake next year, or 60 point Jake.

 

[deadhead]

On the other hand, Lindblom should make a big jump.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I came across this and thought I would share.

Caught a rut.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Sean Monahan jumped from 34 points in 75 games his rookie year to 62 points in 81 games his sophomore year. He was averaging 15:59 minutes his first year then jumped to 19:37 the second year.

Patrick had 30 points 73 games while averaging 13:43 this year. He put up better underlying numbers than Monahan despite the horrid start too. Patrick’s more advanced defensively at this point between the two.

If Patrick gets Simmonds spot on the top PP unit & gets consistent top 6 minutes while staying relatively healthy. I think 60 points is doable. Hopefully he gets an expanded role next even defensively at ES & on the PK but who knows with the conservative ******* behind the bench.

Same for Barkov.

 

[baudib1]

The top three picks tend to be in a different category than say #8 (Couts) or later 1st rd picks.
Patrick, if he had been healthy his draft year probably would have gone ahead of Nico.
At 17, two years before the draft, he had a heck of a junior campaign, topped off with a first class playoff, 21g 13-17 30 +19
He was listed at 6'2 199 at the combine last summer, by next fall I suspect he'll be more like 210-215 after a summer working out.

Elite players show up pretty quickly, unless they're drafted by Edmonton
Second season
Hall #1-10 61g 27-26 53
Seguin #2-10 81g 29-38 67
Nugent-Hopkins #1-11 40g 4-20-24 [E}
Landeskog #2-11 36g 9-8 17 (next year 81g 26-39 65)
Yakupov #1-12 48g 17-14 31 [E]
Galchenyuk #3-12 65g 13-18 31
MacKinnon #1-13 64g 14-24 38
Barkov #2-13 71g 16-20 36 (next year 66g 28-31 59)
Reinhart #2-14 79g 23-19 42
Draisaitl #3-14 72g 19-32 51 (next year 82g 29-48 77)
McDavid #1-15
Eichel #2-15 61g 24-33 57
Matthews #1-16
Laine #2-16 82g 44-26 70
Dubois #3-16 82g 20-28 48

Since it's pretty obvious that Patrick isn't going to be a flop (Hopkins, Yakupov, or even Galchenyuk), we're looking at somewhere in the 40-50 range at worst, and 60-70 if he stays healthy. While a number of these guys broke out their third season, Patrick's more likely to break out his second year, since he's already got the big body and polished instincts. He just has to get into shape (hard to do when you spend two straight summers recovering from surgery).

Taking out the flops makes this list essentially "a bunch of guys who are better than Nolan Patrick and had better rookie seasons."

Patrick isn't anything at all like McDavid, Matthews or Laine.

 

[Tripod]

From Ottawa:

 

[The Burdened]

As has been written: IF we move Wayne and he gets his spot on the PP, I think +/-60 points is absolutely within reach for Patrick.

He has gotten better and better as the season went along. That's exactly what you hope for from a teenager who is playing C in the NHL.

It's not like he started hot and then fizzled out due to the grind and inexperience. He kept applying himself and got better and earned more opportunity.

 

[Flyerfan13]

Apparently Samsonov is on his way over now to sign his ELC & finish out with Hershey in the AHL.

Hmmm they are out of the playoffs

 

[sabremike]

How much value do we put on making Islanders fans go insane with rage and jealousy?

Their ownership is already doing a fantastic job of making fans insane with rage. They might want to invest in a PR department because their ownership is to PR what Sean Avery was to humanity.

 

[deadhead]

Taking out the flops makes this list essentially "a bunch of guys who are better than Nolan Patrick and had better rookie seasons."

Patrick isn't anything at all like McDavid, Matthews or Laine.

No, more like Seguin and Eichel.

One thing to remember is we haven't seen the "real" Patrick yet, no other top prospect went through what he's gone through the last two summers. So even with his recent upsurge, he's just beginning to tap into his talent. Given that a lot of his game is predicated on strength and positioning, he's poised to make a big jump next year once he gets to work out this summer.