Miro Heiskanen, super disappointing start to the season :(

You know what, fine. If you think this is just a normal year and there shouldn't be any additional considerations or exceptions made when evaluating teams/players, be my guest. It doesn't surprise me that the fan of a Florida-based team would think that "everything is fine" in spite of a pandemic.

 

Should I break it to Hedman that he's a 20pt player or do you want to handle that

The years between 18 and 22 are when most young players experience most of their growth. Use those stats to speak definitively to what a player is or is not at your own peril.

 

Just because some don't understand this. Having covid weeks ago, or even over a month ago while playing hockey with a few days off/ever other day off, is not the same as having covid and resting for weeks, or over a month. Having it in January doesn't mean you're fully recovered because it was weeks ago.

 

It was. We're more than a year into this pandemic that affects every soul on the planet....shouldn't have to explain basic things like those ones to anybody. Even the most thick-skulled idiots who in the beginning were claiming 'It's nothing more than a cold', have shut up long time ago.

 

21YO defenceman who has already shown the ability to completely take over a game in the playoffs. I think he'll be fine, if not there are 30 teams interested.

 

Oh he sucks, trade him to the ducks.

 

Some might think that development is not linear and that young guys go through stretches of bad play..

 

Players do not develop in a straight line... Players do not develop in a straight line... Players do not develop in a straight line... Players do not develop in a straight line...

This is especially true for defensemen. Even for the super elite mega-prospects, you have to wait to AT LEAST draft +6 to get a read on just what they are, and depending on the team and the dynamic around the player sometimes longer. I agree Heiskanen has been disappointing this year, but the reality is young players get better every game or season, but rise and fall in fits and starts. The good news is that when they are as good as Miro, you know you're going to get more of the good than the bad as time goes on. And it's not uncommon for the players who faced some adversity during their development to turn out the best.

 

I bet this is mostly on Covid. I don't mean, he would be ppg player, that was not expected even after last play-offs. Possible tho, if Stars played same kind of game, they played there first two rounds, but that's not what they do. His game is missing that last 10% and it doesn't come naturally. When you can't play with instincts and feel to miss that last inch, you have to think, what you should do and you are late. Teravainen said, he felt that way. Zibanejad looks like that. Expect Ristolainen to face similar issues. Some people heal better or there is nothing to heal from, with some it takes longer. Wouldn't be too worried for future.

 

I was making a dumb joke .. even though you cant even call it a joke, more of a random vague reference.

When I read your post, I was like "damn that is one surly dude" .. then I thought of Surly beer and they make a beer called Abrasive and I was like "that post was surly and abrasive" ... so I made some dumb random reference to surly and abrasive.

But I agree with you and I like you. We could get drunk and you could tell me what is wrong with the world. Starting with the Swedes.

 

COVID can do serious lingering damage. Could be a factor.

 

Yeah, humor isn't the easiest thing on a discussion forum - things often get missed. Sorry to come across as a humorless stone-face.Sure, let's get drunk if the opportunity arises...this f***ing covid must pass at least partially at some point!

 

This is a pretty civil debate compared to the disappointing Quinn Hughes thread. Wonder why?

 

Not sure how this is relevant to the discussion of Heiskanen, but okay.

 

Also I reacted to how many of his points were silly quite early on. And after that he had 4 points in one game were all of them were "own goals" or goalie mistakes. And cuz of that he was the man.

I like Heiskanen and don't mean to hate on him, but was just a bit funny to me with the hype about the points when the puck luck was so silly so often for him those playoffs. So not surprising if it turned out to be abnormal production.

And covid is a lottery in how it affects you. I've barely watched Dallas this season but feels for sure covid and/or lack of preseaso is why he is performing badly atm. He will be fine.

 

The puck luck he saw in the playoffs is the puck Hughes, Makar, and Dahlin are always getting. Plus they get loads of PP points that Miro isn't fortunate enough to get and get to play with way more talented players. He's not a PPG player obviously, but throw him on a team that can score and he will produce almost if not just as much as the other dmen. He just doesn't have that luxury, but was fortunate enough to have it in the playoffs. Perks of playing with a high flying offense (although it was short lived lol). Same reason he has 8 assists this season already but hasn't actually done much offensively. The team could not stop scoring early on so he racked up some points

 

Don't over think it.

 

I’ve never personally watched much of heiskanen or rated him at all, and I’m not specifically trying to argue “against” your idea of him, but I think it’s worth pointing out secondary assists are important to defensman/centers. while some secondary assists could be basic passes that seem like free points, that also can be said about as much by primary assists.

Like, we’ve seen teams with great forwards who weren’t scoring as much because they had no puck moving defensman.
*You can have great defensman not score nearly as many points because they’ve not got forwards who can score (like the Stars last season and before)... but secondary assists absolutely matter as much as primary, ESPECIALLY for defensman. The % of his points being secondary isn’t a knock at all. Different D play different styles like forwards.

The primary assist on a goal and be pretty straight forward and nothing special a lot too, but often they only had the puck in the first place because their defender was good enough to individually get the puck back and either thread a pass through a forechecker or two, or he’s smart reading the game was able to skate briefly to open his own pass lane to a forward more or less just up waiting for a pass. There’s also a lot of defensmen (most) who often make basic breakout moves when they could have made better set up into the neutral zone.

A defensman who aids transition, is good defensively AND offensively, in today’s transition focused game is arguably disproportionately effective compared to the average skater any given game, similar to the goalie. He doesn’t have to be a prime Karlsson jumping way up into the play constantly, or Burns firing constant bombs; whatever he does, he did it super well in the playoffs

smart pinching, positioning and defense make offense as well etc.
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heiskanen’s hype was very defendable, and we saw real Heiskanen who was objectively great; albeit possibly just seeing his potential rather than “he’s a one man team like Prime Karlsson” suddenly and from now on.

***Keep in mind the context of him being basically still a kid at 21. I believe he was 20 in the playoffs; was 19 and 20 his two full seasons.. players don’t all slowly evenly progressively improve month to month. Sometimes they do, sometimes they explode and in either case they sometimes regress a while (it’s also early season)


Tl;dr


a team that because talent and or system can’t score will lower such a defensmans points, and the Stars have been pretty eh.

That some of them, of course pavelski, all suddenly turned it on and Heiskanen got a ton of points, while as you said *played basically the same as the regular season tells me we’re watching a great, smart defender on a inconsistent offensive team

(didn’t realize how much I had written since I can’t see 90% of the post on my phone screen haha)

 

Since I've watched most games and all goals and highlights of Buffalo's last few seasons you can scratch Dahlin from that talk about having that puck luck. Can't comment on the other two as well but regardless this thread isn't about those players and therefor I won't comment further on what you said about his production compared to theirs.

I just stated that he had abnormal puck luck in that playoffs where you could scratch probably at least 1/3 of his points without defender deflections or among the worst goaltending I've seen in modern times. Doesn't mean I want to make his playoff sound bad tho! Seems he was solid all round.

 

Except probably 90%+ of the goals Dahlin has scored in his career are all puck luck (deflections, weak shots, etc.). I too have seen the vast majority of his games. It is also rather shocking how much he relies on Eichel and the PP for production, which is a major luxury he has over Heiskanen. My point is all of these guys get puck luck, and it doesn't hurt that for a lot of their points they don't have to do anything at all thanks to the guys they're with.

You're right tho, this thread isn't about them so I'll let the conversation die. Just had to make this note lol

 

You are heavily exagerating once again lol. So yeah, please let this convo die =)

 

Not quite but you do you

 

Conditioning from sitting around doing nothing maybe. It seems to happen quite often with injuries when guys can't work out.

 

Teemu Selanne = Finnish Flash.
Miro Heiskanen = Finnish Flash in the Pan.

 

How? I stated that at least 1/3 of his points were deflections into own net or horrible goaltending, especially by both Calgary and Colorado which made his point production an abnormality in those playoffs, which adds up with how he's produced before as well. You can watch highlights and see this for yourself. And I wrote that as a response to someone trashing him for secondary assists cuz I react more to how the points and hype happen, than just saying "secondary assists" like many do since I value secondary and third assists etc.

Then you brought the other usual D-men into it, just like many Miro fans crashing all threads with comparisons and hype since day one especially against Dahlin, saying they always have that puck luck which just feels heavily exagerated of you. I've seen you in basically every thread like this and had discussions with you before under my previous nick, Wood Man.

Miro had extreme puck luck in that playoffs in a short period of time which I know Dahlin doesn't come close to during his career as you said, and heavily doubt the other two do as well these last seasons.

Then you go on to saying 90% of Dahlin's goals have been deflections or "weak shots" which simply isn't true. He had 2/9 deflected goals from weak shots in his rookie season, and 0/4 in the last season. So you are heavily exagerating, yes and starting to bring up why he normally produces worse than these guys in a very biased way.

So. There. Now this is just another Miro vs Dahlin thread xD Sorry for taking the bait.