Minor league vs Major League season cancelations

[Big Z Man 1990]

I've noticed that the NBA G League, AHL, ECHL, and Minor League Baseball have all canceled their seasons.

But their parent organizations have not.

I can understand MLB because they are still playing within a timeframe that is traditional for the league.

But the NBA and the NHL are not. The NBA is preparing for an unprecedented quick turnaround between 19-20 and 20-21, which I feel is too quick.

The NHL doesn't know when they will start their next season because gate receipts are very important to the league more so than other leagues.

It just bugs me that the minor leagues are willing to cancel their seasons, but the NBA and NHL are not.

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[GindyDraws]

It is a frustrating thing, but for those minor leagues, they often don't have the collateral to continue a season in a neutral site or anywhere else, not to mention they lack any major TV deal (it's limited to local networks at best and streaming services where the quality varies between the team's equipment at worst) that gives them incentive to continue.

Yeah, I absolutely hate it; the Indy Fuel cancelled their best season ever, but it's not without reason.

 

[sh724]

That because of money. The amount of money these smaller leagues bring in is no where near what the pro teams bring in. Factor in the top leagues have expanded rosters that means less quality players to choose from.

The NBA is spending something like $150MM on their bubble. To have a minor league operate in the same setup would cost another $150MM. The top leagues can absorb those costs to some extent. The minor leagues have zero chance of making up any of those costs as they do not have TV contracts

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I feel that this is a double standard, something which is frowned upon in society. If the basketball and hockey minor leagues had to cancel their seasons, I feel the NBA and NHL should have done so too. October is for NBA and NHL regular season games, NOT playoff games.

 

[mouser]

I feel that this is a double standard, something which is frowned upon in society. If the basketball and hockey minor leagues had to cancel their seasons, I feel the NBA and NHL should have done so too. October is for NBA and NHL regular season games, NOT playoff games.

You’re on the business forum. It’s a business driven decision.

The economics of major professional sports motivate the leagues to find a way to continue play. The economics of the minor leagues don’t.

 

[KevFu]

When you can't have fans, you don't get gate revenue.

The NBA/NHL/MLB are playing because of the billions of dollars they get from TV and sponsorship money (stadium naming rights, ads in the venue, etc). Which is more than they get from tickets.

The Minors are not playing because they're not on TV anyway, so gate revenue is all they have.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I should also note that the NCAA makes as much money off of March Madness as the major sports leagues make from all of their revenue streams - and yet the NCAA was willing to cancel March Madness this year.

The fact that March Madness didn't happen this year is another reason why NBA and NHL should have canceled.

 

[KevFu]

I should also note that the NCAA makes as much money off of March Madness as the major sports leagues make from all of their revenue streams - and yet the NCAA was willing to cancel March Madness this year.

The fact that March Madness didn't happen this year is another reason why NBA and NHL should have canceled.

The NCAA's finances are misleading, though, because of the structure of college sports.

For the pro leagues, the league sells national TV/playoff rights, and merchandise; and divides that revenue evenly to the teams (after expenses). The NCAA is similar, except that it ONLY has the playoffs (and not the FBS football playoffs). And it has 356 Division I members, plus Division II and Division III. So while the March Madness TV contract is huge, it's also 96% of the total revenue, and it's 100% given away to all the members of DI, DII, DIII (after expenses). The conferences make more TV money combined per year than March Madness makes; however, there's no revenue sharing among conferences.

Delaying and rescheduling the NCAA Tournament would be straight up impossible due to all the moving pieces. The venues are booked YEARS in advance. I remember when the US was about to invade Afghanistan, the NCAA was considering postponing the tournament by 2 weeks. They lined up Dayton as a Plan B host site in case they couldn't get all sites to reschedule. Well, I don't know exactly how many couldn't reschedule, but they pretty much found it impossible to reschedule, bailed on that concept in a hurry, and called up Condoleeza Rice for "permission" to just go ahead as scheduled.

Given where we were March 10-17, it's not surprising at all they canceled the whole thing.

They also had the issue of automatic bids and the rules in place. Basically, once the Selection Committee convenes, conferences can not deviate from their plan to award the automatic bid. The SEC found this out when they had the tornado in Atlanta during their tournament in 2008. They were considering canceling the tournament and giving the autobid to the regular season champion. The NCAA said that if they don't complete the tournament, they don't get an autobid (And of course, Georgia was alive with no chance of an at-large, so they'd be screwed).

The Ivy League canceled their tournament and announced the regular season champ would get their auto-bid, but they did it BEFORE their tournament started/committee convened. Same in 1990 when the WCC canceled their tournament in the semis when Hank Gathers died. The WCC Tourney is a week before the committee convenes.

So you had half of the NCAA with no auto bids because tournaments were canceled. The NCAA flatly rejected even announcing the field of "who WOULD HAVE" made the NCAA Tournament.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

It just bugs me that the minor leagues are willing to cancel their seasons, but the NBA and NHL are not.

This is where you have to take the emotion out of business situations.

Minor leagues often don't make money.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I should also note that the NCAA makes as much money off of March Madness as the major sports leagues make from all of their revenue streams - and yet the NCAA was willing to cancel March Madness this year.

The fact that March Madness didn't happen this year is another reason why NBA and NHL should have canceled.

Sorry, but 1 thing has nothing to do with another.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

You also have to look at this from the points of view of the RSNs that hold the local rights to the teams not invited to the NBA or NHL bubbles.

These RSNs, including Cleveland Cavaliers broadcaster Fox Sports Ohio, will lose millions, if not billions of advertising revenue that would have come from broadcasting games involving these teams.

One RSN, Fox Sports Detroit, will lose out on both NBA and NHL telecasts because the Pistons and Red Wings are both among the teams not invited to the bubbles. I expect a lawsuit will be filed by Fox Sports Detroit against the leagues for choosing to proceed without these teams rather than cancel the seasons outright.

And I know one fictional character who would be extremely disappointed about the Pistons and Red Wings seasons ending so abruptly: Lynn Loud Jr., the sport-loving girl from The Loud House (which is set in a city based on the Detroit suburb of Royal Oak).

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You also have to look at this from the points of view of the RSNs that hold the local rights to the teams not invited to the NBA or NHL bubbles.

These RSNs, including Cleveland Cavaliers broadcaster Fox Sports Ohio, will lose millions, if not billions of advertising revenue that would have come from broadcasting games involving these teams.

One RSN, Fox Sports Detroit, will lose out on both NBA and NHL telecasts because the Pistons and Red Wings are both among the teams not invited to the bubbles. I expect a lawsuit will be filed by Fox Sports Detroit against the leagues for choosing to proceed without these teams rather than cancel the seasons outright.

And I know one fictional character who would be extremely disappointed about the Pistons and Red Wings seasons ending so abruptly: Lynn Loud Jr., the sport-loving girl from The Loud House (which is set in a city based on the Detroit suburb of Royal Oak).

Fox Detroit and Ohio cannot sue anyone because those teams didn't qualify, Z, (THERE are still discussions about a 2nd bubble involving the Cavaliers and Pistons)

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

And if the second bubble doesn't come to pass?

Then I would still feel that if one RSN has to be shut out of the NBA and NHL until the pandemic is over, then all of them have to. Fairness comes into play here.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Make-goods, how do they work?

 

[GindyDraws]

Sorry, but 1 thing has nothing to do with another.

Simply put, teams don't owe you anything. You may feel like, as a fan and as a consumer, you're entitled, but at the end of the day, they're not responsible for giving you anything, especially right now with what's going on.

There's no "make good" policy that should exist, especially on a minor league level, particularly if you want these teams to survive. If you actually care about these teams, you should give them the benefit of the doubt and let them do whatever it takes in order to survive as long as possible before we reach a situation where people can safely enjoy activities again.

 

[GindyDraws]

Make-goods, how do they work?

They're like magnets.

 

[ColinM]

Reading this thread made me think a lot about the CFL. It's a decent tv property for TSN yet likely can't generate enough revenue to operate their bubble without ticket sales. I hope they can play a 2 to 3 month season in the fall but I could see how they choose not to. I think what could make or break is whether a large crowd could be allowed in an outdoor environment in a place like Winnipeg where the COVID count is relatively low.