BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Apparently the affiliation is for five years, so while the Knights might eventually have their own team for development purposes it's not likely to happen in the next couple of years.
Minor League Affiliates
- Thread starter KenSinBin
- Start date
Apparently the affiliation is for five years, so while the Knights might eventually have their own team for development purposes it's not likely to happen in the next couple of years.
GKG18
Expansion Fan
I nearly did a spit-take when you said 41 players! I thought "you could be on the roster all season and not see a minute of ice time! That's no way to develop players!"
RandallRitchey
Formerly the Bergy Gif guy on Twitter
The Wolves don't really care about developing players and the Blues and them have butted heads on it in the past. It makes sense, as you have to pick 30 players in the expansion draft. Say 7-10 of those go to the AHL, the Blues will send 7-10 as well, plus whoever the Wolves sign. Only worry for Blues fans will be the playing time for Ville Husso and to a lesser extent, Jordan Binnington.
yea, but the Blues also now have Kansas City (Independence/Missouri) AS an option whereas Vegas does not or chose not to due to timing constraints.
danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
- Aug 14, 2013
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Vegas likely would be supplying an AHL team with very few players. Maybe as low as 3-5. Gotta keep in mind that not everybody in their farm system will start in the AHL, it's entirely possible some might start in the ECHL or whatever third tier affiliate Vegas might have.
Out of the 7 draft picks they currently have in the expansion draft, there's a good chance that at most 1-2 end up in the AHL. Depending on who they pick at 6, potentially none will start in the AHL in 2017 as they could have CHL or overseas obligations.
Then with the 7 players over the 23 man roster they take, there's a chance that a few of them are selected and then traded right away for futures as Vegas has stated they are willing to listen to offers in an auction format on unprotected players. One or two might not clear waivers at the start of the season. Then a few might even end up in the ECHL or whatever affiliate is under the AHL team.
Out of the 7 draft picks they currently have in the expansion draft, there's a good chance that at most 1-2 end up in the AHL. Depending on who they pick at 6, potentially none will start in the AHL in 2017 as they could have CHL or overseas obligations.
Then with the 7 players over the 23 man roster they take, there's a chance that a few of them are selected and then traded right away for futures as Vegas has stated they are willing to listen to offers in an auction format on unprotected players. One or two might not clear waivers at the start of the season. Then a few might even end up in the ECHL or whatever affiliate is under the AHL team.
Blue Goose
Registered User
No doubt - it's why the shared affiliation should work for one season. The only unfortunate thing for Vegas is that it may mean that McPhee isn't as active on July 1 signing UFA's for the AHL club.
Bingo.
My hope is that the Knights select Korpisalo and Ullmark in the expansion draft (since they're both waiver-exempt for next season), and it'd be nice to send them both to the AHL. Husso going back to Finland for one season doesn't seem so bad, so it's only Binnington that needs to find a home - maybe the Knights select him in the expansion draft and he stays with the Wolves?
High n Wide
Registered User
No doubt - it's why the shared affiliation should work for one season. The only unfortunate thing for Vegas is that it may mean that McPhee isn't as active on July 1 signing UFA's for the AHL club.
Bingo.
My hope is that the Knights select Korpisalo and Ullmark in the expansion draft (since they're both waiver-exempt for next season), and it'd be nice to send them both to the AHL. Husso going back to Finland for one season doesn't seem so bad, so it's only Binnington that needs to find a home - maybe the Knights select him in the expansion draft and he stays with the Wolves?
Sorry for intruding, but we DO share an AHL team (actually I guess as of yesterday, we're just borrowing spots from YOUR AHL team
). Anyways, I would hope and imagine the Blues would fight that pretty fervently. I know they clearly aren't in the position of strength here, but I would think that probably was a talking point prior to the agreement between the teams. Husso is (IMO) beyond what the Finnish league can offer him in terms of development. He spent some time in the ECHL last year and it seemed to be an arrangement nobody was content with - Husso, the Blues, fans, etc. I would think that's a pretty large sticking point for the Blues and as I said is something I have to imagine was discussed already. I suppose if not, though, it's a decision between the Golden Knights and the Wolves and the Blues just have to make the best of it. I am very interested (and nervous) to see how it plays out for the goaltending situation...
Blue Goose
Registered User
Sorry for intruding, but we DO share an AHL team (actually I guess as of yesterday, we're just borrowing spots from YOUR AHL team
The interesting thing to note is that McPhee is going to pick 3-5 goalies, which means that 3-5 NHL teams will have one less goalie in their pipeline. If the Blues are looking for a home for Husso or Binnington, why not reach out to those teams who lose goalies in the expansion draft and see if they can loan Husso/Binnington to their AHL affiliate for one year?
Colorado/San Antonio would be my focus: The popular rumor is that the Blues will affiliate with San Antonio after next season (and the Avalanche will get a new AHL expansion team as their affiliate), and it seems like Calvin Pickard is a likely expansion pick for the Knights. If Pickard is selected, the Avs will only have two goalies under contract for next season: Varlamov and Spencer Martin. So how about a scenario in which Husso gets loaned to the Rampage to split time with Martin?
Same goes for Washington/Hershey: if/when Grubauer is selected by Vegas, the Caps will only have Holtby, Vitek Vanecek and Adam Carlson under contract for next season. Carlson stays in the ECHL, and Binnington could split time with Vanecek in Hershey (unless Samsonov comes over from Russia).
Also interesting to note: both San Antonio and Hershey are independently owned like the Chicago Wolves, so they might have no problem taking in the Blues goalies if it helps them win games.
From the illustrious Annals of the honorable sinners at the Bin .... "Under the current deal the Golden Knights will manage all aspects involving hockey operations, such as personnel decisions, ice-time, and the hiring and firing of coaches."
that says to me the Wolves while not what they are known for is going to become developmental in nature
http://sinbin.vegas/chicago-wolves-golden-knights-ahl-faq/
that says to me the Wolves while not what they are known for is going to become developmental in nature
http://sinbin.vegas/chicago-wolves-golden-knights-ahl-faq/
what are you worried about, you worry to much ( not that you are worried about anything) The Blues the St louis area with football out really took Hockey in .... the junior programs are as good or better as any in Canada ...why do i mention St Louis or surrounding area has room for an AHL teamSorry for intruding, but we DO share an AHL team (actually I guess as of yesterday, we're just borrowing spots from YOUR AHL team
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
I read that too, and apparently McPhee was the reason the Wolves are ready to give up some of that control. I guess that says a lot for GMGM. We'll see how it works out.
I really don't mind if the AHL team stays in the midwest indefinitely. I think a lot of the travel discussions that have occurred over the past few years with regards to the AHL had more to do with teams wanting their AHL squad to not be stuck in the northeast corner of the country. I understand why the Coyotes moved Springfield to Tucson, but they'd have likely done just as well moving from Springfield to a more centrally located place on the continent.
To me, Chicago seems perfect. Good air connections and decent travel opportunities and distances to everywhere in either league.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
http://sinbin.vegas/deleted-tweet-may-just-revealed-echl-affiliate/
Deleted Tweet May Have Just Revealed ECHL Affiliate
Deleted Tweet May Have Just Revealed ECHL Affiliate
rabinsurance
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2007
- 179
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This makes sense in the fact that Mallard's President/GM Bob McNamara worked in the front office of the Cleveland Lumberjacks in the 90's with Kerry Bubolz of the Golden Knights. I know that they stayed in touch, especially when McNamara was the GM of Grand Rapids and the Cavaliers, including Bubolz, bought the Lake Erie(now Cleveland) Monsters. So there is a connection there.
Gigantor The Goalie
Speak for the Goalies
The interesting thing to note is that McPhee is going to pick 3-5 goalies, which means that 3-5 NHL teams will have one less goalie in their pipeline. If the Blues are looking for a home for Husso or Binnington, why not reach out to those teams who lose goalies in the expansion draft and see if they can loan Husso/Binnington to their AHL affiliate for one year?
Colorado/San Antonio would be my focus: The popular rumor is that the Blues will affiliate with San Antonio after next season (and the Avalanche will get a new AHL expansion team as their affiliate), and it seems like Calvin Pickard is a likely expansion pick for the Knights. If Pickard is selected, the Avs will only have two goalies under contract for next season: Varlamov and Spencer Martin. So how about a scenario in which Husso gets loaned to the Rampage to split time with Martin?
Same goes for Washington/Hershey: if/when Grubauer is selected by Vegas, the Caps will only have Holtby, Vitek Vanecek and Adam Carlson under contract for next season. Carlson stays in the ECHL, and Binnington could split time with Vanecek in Hershey (unless Samsonov comes over from Russia).
Also interesting to note: both San Antonio and Hershey are independently owned like the Chicago Wolves, so they might have no problem taking in the Blues goalies if it helps them win games.
The issue that the Blues are facing right now is that every NHL has at minimum 4 goalies signed plus 1-2 on AHL contracts. So as long as the majority of goalies are healthy all AHL goalie spots are taken and no other NHL team would bother pushing one of their own goalies down to the ECHL because the Blues are in a bad situation.
In regards to the Avalanche situation there's no chance that Binnington or Husso end up in San Antonio. First off even though San Antonio isn't owned by the Avs they are managed by them. Therefore the Avs have to be convinced to allow Husso/Binnington to steal time from Martin. If Pickard is selected by Vegas the Avs will acquire at least two goalies in the off-season taking up one NHL spot and one AHL spot to split with Martin plus at least another goalie on an AHL deal like they did with Simpson/Lieuwen this past year. You can bet Washington will do the same thing to ensure that their young goalie Vitek Vanacek is in a good situation to develop.
@High n Wide
There's nothing forcing Las Vegas to play nice with the Blues goalies. Vegas will need to have at least 4 goalies under contract headed into the season to cover for potential injuries. Vegas is the primary affiliated NHL team so it's not difficult to guess that Vegas will get some priority in decision making. So if Vegas takes a young goalie to develop in the AHL (like Korpisalo) they'll want him to have the most starts followed by whoever is no. 4 on the Vegas goalie depth chart.
That's the big question though, just how much will Vegas get priority in (or where will they get priority).
According to the AHL page the Wolves have signed WHL overager Tyler Wong, RW, to an AHL contract.
Looks like the development roster building has begun.
Link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2205455&page=3
Looks like the development roster building has begun.
Link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2205455&page=3
Nordiques1979
Registered User
Every time there's an expansion team coming it's like Christmas day for any average / below average hockey players playing in crappy minor leagues or unknown euro team! So Chicago will be shared by both St Louis and Vegas or the Gk will take full control of the team?
I read these posts and I just wonder how many people truly understand AHL/ECHL and their purpose.
1. The point of minor league teams is to develop prospects for the major league teams, full stop. Teams don't care if their lower teams win titles or do well. They are there to develop prospects. They used to be used to get a look at potential free agent pickups, veterans who prove something but those are extremely rare now. If you aren't a drafted player for your organization or a guy signed out of NCAA/Juniors and you are playing in the AHL, your real hope is you get signed in Europe. Realities of the salary cap and the more connected world where talent is spotted much earlier.
2. These players they call up aren't emergency replacements. Teams carry healthy scratches for a reason. They call up players to see them at practice as much as they call them up to see game action.
3. There is no expectation of creating a fan base for the teams above. None. These teams have their reasons to have players close by, but in no way do they expect it to make fans of the minor league teams more loyal to the top. So stop thinking of geography as some part of the marketing voodoo because its not.
4. Lastly, some moves from minors up are for salary cap purposes. That was a big driver for the nearby geography. I think teams might be seeing more value than they thought from being close and monitoring prospects, but it really started out as how do we stash guys that we can to cut salary cap costs. That could be done with an official announcement, but then teams saw some strategy to getting them to actually play a bit on the minor team. Lots of strategy I think the VGK are thinking through on this one, but its not something they will be worried about for a few years.
1. The point of minor league teams is to develop prospects for the major league teams, full stop. Teams don't care if their lower teams win titles or do well. They are there to develop prospects. They used to be used to get a look at potential free agent pickups, veterans who prove something but those are extremely rare now. If you aren't a drafted player for your organization or a guy signed out of NCAA/Juniors and you are playing in the AHL, your real hope is you get signed in Europe. Realities of the salary cap and the more connected world where talent is spotted much earlier.
2. These players they call up aren't emergency replacements. Teams carry healthy scratches for a reason. They call up players to see them at practice as much as they call them up to see game action.
3. There is no expectation of creating a fan base for the teams above. None. These teams have their reasons to have players close by, but in no way do they expect it to make fans of the minor league teams more loyal to the top. So stop thinking of geography as some part of the marketing voodoo because its not.
4. Lastly, some moves from minors up are for salary cap purposes. That was a big driver for the nearby geography. I think teams might be seeing more value than they thought from being close and monitoring prospects, but it really started out as how do we stash guys that we can to cut salary cap costs. That could be done with an official announcement, but then teams saw some strategy to getting them to actually play a bit on the minor team. Lots of strategy I think the VGK are thinking through on this one, but its not something they will be worried about for a few years.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
So it's Quad Cities>Chicago>Vegas
All centrally located, though obviously call-ups from the ECHL to the NHL aren't likely to happen.
3 players contractually, afaik, but even if you're not a direct affiliation, other teams can sign those players not contractually signed, depends on if Vegas has a working agreement in addition to the Mallards.
but great, I was wondering if they were considering having to set up 2 teams, from scratch, just as they had to do with THE VGK
They also carry SJ, Anaheim, LA and Vancouver for hockey. It wouldn't surprise me if they add them into the mix and our local channel carries WHL Winterhawks games.
For as long as I can remember, Worcester Sharks were an SJ affiliate, NH Monarchs were LA Kings. Both got moved with the 'keep them closer' change. When was Worc the Blues AHL team?
The Blues owned the Icecats back in the mid nineties. They moved their AHL affiliate to Peoria in 2004.
Here's a good summary of how things developed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_IceCats
jwhouk
Former Cheesehead, Always a Preds Fan
Peoria had a long history of being the Blues affiliate when they were in the IHL. It made sense since they were a relatively short trip up the interstate from STL.
I'd have mixed feelings about the Woofies being the Vegas AHL affiliate. They've had some... issues... with NHL affiliations over the years. Namely, they see themselves more in the business of trying to win championships over developing younger players. That's why a lot of their senior management left for NHL jobs (mostly WPG) recently.
I'd have mixed feelings about the Woofies being the Vegas AHL affiliate. They've had some... issues... with NHL affiliations over the years. Namely, they see themselves more in the business of trying to win championships over developing younger players. That's why a lot of their senior management left for NHL jobs (mostly WPG) recently.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
It seems like their mindset has changed over the past few years. They have St. Louis almost full control of the hockey last year, and if what we've read so far is true the Knights will have full hockey ops control over the Wolves. From what I understand, most of the Wolves issues stemmed from trying to compete with the Blackhawks during the late Dollar Bill days and forward. You've got to put a winner on the ice if you're trying to compete against an NHL team in the same market.
It seems like they're embracing the AHL process now and are willing to cede control to the parent club and make actual player development the goal of the organization.
