Minnesota Wild General Discussion VIII

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why do you keep focusing on Spurgeon? We're past Spurgeon. We've already decided to trade him. We're talking about what Guerin does with Staal, Koivu, Zuccarello, Suter and Parise. And what he does to address the fact that this team still sucks even if we trade Spurgeon.

I'm (sort of) still talking about Spurgeon.

 

[2Pair]

Kevin Hayes?

Patrick Maleau. Could be going into the draft with 3 first rounders

 

[TaLoN]

How may teams have dropped from playoffs to top 3 drafting teams to Stanley Cup contenders in a matter of 2-3 years?

Teams with good prospects in their pool, under perform, dramatically and then suddenly pick someone like MacKinnon to add into the soon arriving highly skilled youth.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Patrick Maleau. Could be going into the draft with 3 first rounders

Great. Could use more Kunins, Eriksson Eks and Hartmans.

 

[AKL]

I'm (sort of) still talking about Spurgeon.

It's a different conversation. One that was started initially by him saying Guerin should have anticipated that the 5 previously named veterans would nosedive to start the season, implying Guerin should have been proactive.

So far what I'm gathering is that trading Spurgeon within the last two months would have us sitting in a much better position than keeping him has us.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Teams with good prospects in their pool, under perform, dramatically and then suddenly pick someone like MacKinnon to add into the soon arriving highly skilled youth.

Landeskog was a top 3 pick. Rantanen was a top 10 pick. Maker was a top 5 pick which they got in a trade for a top 3 pick.

 

[NHL1674]

What definition of tanking are we using? Teams and coaches never tank. Front offices might recognize that they're not going anywhere and need to stock up on picks and prospects for a few years to be better in the long run. Is that tanking? Teams like Colorado, Buffalo, Edmonton (finally), Carolina have been bad for years, purposely stocking up on picks and prospects, and are now reaping the benefits. Tampa Bay is reaping the benefits of "tanking" or being bad.

It may not happen instantly with one draft, or possibly even two. But there's a reason teams focus so much on building through the draft, and there's a reason that when teams are past their expiration date they start selling off veterans to get picks and prospects.

I'm borrowing this phrase from TaLoN....suck organically.

 

[AKL]

Patrick Maleau. Could be going into the draft with 3 first rounders

What of the (seemingly substantiated) rumors that Marleau would only sign with San Jose?

Do we still sign Marleau?

 

[2Pair]

What of the (seemingly substantiated) rumors that Marleau would only sign with San Jose?

Do we still sign Marleau?

You'll figure it out eventually

 

[AKL]

I'm borrowing this phrase from TaLoN....suck organically.

At what point of sucking organically do you say, "hey, you know, we could get some extra future assets by trading guys like Staal, Koivu, Zucker at the deadline"?

Or do you hang on to those guys and just go the course? Because frankly, we've been doing the latter for going on 20 years and it has us...here.

 

[TaLoN]

Landeskog was a top 3 pick. Rantanen was a top 10 pick. Maker was a top 5 pick which they got in a trade for a top 3 pick.

Dumba is a top 10 pick, Boldy should've been a top 10 pick (or better, luck that he fell) Kap appears to have been a steal and carries top 5-10 pick upside. We're likely to add a top 5-10 pick next draft.

 

[TaLoN]

At what point of sucking organically do you say, "hey, you know, we could get some extra future assets by trading guys like Staal, Koivu, Zucker at the deadline"?

Or do you hang on to those guys and just go the course? Because frankly, we've been doing the latter for going on 20 years and it has us...here.

Sell at the deadline who doesn't fit into the near future, keep those who you think help the quick turnaround.

Don't go full Sabres.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Dumba is a top 10 pick, Boldy should've been a top 10 pick (or better, luck that he fell) Kap appears to have been a steal and carries top 5-10 pick upside. We're likely to add a top 5-10 pick next draft.

MacKinnon was drafted in 2013. He "arrived" in 2017. By then Dumba is 28 and looking for and 8 year deal. Kaprizov is 27ish.

 

[AKL]

Sell at the deadline who doesn't fit into the near future, keep those who you think help the quick turnaround.

Don't go full Sabres.

It's a pretty fine line

 

[AKL]

MacKinnon was drafted in 2013. He "arrived" in 2017. By then Dumba is 28 and looking for and 8 year deal. Kaprizov is 27ish.

Just as an FYI Kaprizov would be 25ish if Dumba is 28.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

What of the (seemingly substantiated) rumors that Marleau would only sign with San Jose?

Do we still sign Marleau?

He's talking about trading Spurgeon for a 1st, then taking 1st for taking on Marleau (and buying him out).

 

[AKL]

He's talking about trading Spurgeon for a 1st, then taking 1st for taking on Marleau (and buying him out).

Didn't need Spurgeon gone last year to take on Marleau at the deadline so I'm not sure how "Marleau" is an answer to what we'd do with Spurgeon's 7.5M (that he doesn't even start making til next summer, so again, not sure how we'd use that space to take on Marleau last year).

 

[NHL1674]

At what point of sucking organically do you say, "hey, you know, we could get some extra future assets by trading guys like Staal, Koivu, Zucker at the deadline"?

Or do you hang on to those guys and just go the course? Because frankly, we've been doing the latter for going on 20 years and it has us...here.

I'm not against all trades. Hell, I would have been okay with some of those moves last year if we had a gm with a brain willing to get picks and fair returns.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Didn't need Spurgeon gone last year to take on Marleau at the deadline so I'm not sure how "Marleau" is an answer to what we'd do with Spurgeon's 7.5M (that he doesn't even start making til next summer, so again, not sure how we'd use that space to take on Marleau last year).

Not at the deadline. In July, or whenever he was traded.

 

[TaLoN]

MacKinnon was drafted in 2013. He "arrived" in 2017. By then Dumba is 28 and looking for and 8 year deal. Kaprizov is 27ish.

He was in the playoffs right away his rookie year... his team having won the division after having been deep in the cellar, were actually considered one of the top contenders for the 2014 cup before the Wild upset them in 7.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He was in the playoffs right away his rookie year... his team having won the division after having been deep in the cellar, were actually considered one of the top contenders for the 2014 cup before the Wild upset them in 7.

And then where were they from 2015-18?

 

[AKL]

Not at the deadline. In July, or whenever he was traded.

Doesn't really matter when he was traded unless it was July 1, 2020 or later. One still doesn't have a whole lot to do with the other.

Should we have taken on Marleau to get an extra 1st? Probably.
Does that have anything to do with Spurgeon's salary or contract? No.

 

[TaLoN]

And then where were they from 2015-18?

My point is, we can turn this around as soon as next season with the incoming talent influx.

The Avs had the talent, but had coaching issues to resolve.

 

[AKL]

My point is, we can turn this around as soon as next season with the incoming talent influx.

Every team is different, but if we get Lafreniere, and add Kaprizov and Boldy next season, it may take a year for them to get used to the NHL, but by the year after that we'd be back to being competitive with a bright future. I'm as positive as I can be about it.

 

[TaLoN]

Every team is different, but if we get Lafreniere, and add Kaprizov and Boldy next season, it may take a year for them to get used to the NHL, but by the year after that we'd be back to being competitive with a bright future. I'm as positive as I can be about it.

We'll still likely have a very good top 4 defense, just find a goaltender and we're threatening back in the wild card, possibly true contenders the year after. That's being optimistic.