Minnesota Wild General Discussion Part VII

[TaLoN]

Fenton's son was a scout under Chiarelli in Edmonton. Hiring Chia's brother and nephew doesn't seem connected to you guys whatsoever? I don't know how any of this wouldn't raise suspicions.

Why should it? Do you know how good/ bad they are at scouting?

You do know that GM's often come up through scouting ranks themselves, and good scouts tend to move up ladders? Maybe Chia was a very good scout and that trait runs in the family?

 

[Spurgeon]

Why should it? Do you know how good/ bad they are at scouting?

You do know that GM's often come up through scouting ranks themselves, and good scouts tend to move up ladders? Maybe Chia was a very good scout and that trait runs in the family?

There's just a very obvious family connection between Fenton and Chiarelli. That is the only thing I am questioning. I obviously do not know the traits and abilities of these guys. I just question whether they are the best guys available based on the previously mentioned connections.

 

[TaLoN]

There's just a very obvious family connection between Fenton and Chiarelli. That is the only thing I am questioning. I obviously do not know the traits and abilities of these guys. I just question whether they are the best guys available based on the previously mentioned connections.

So you're hate on this move is simply based on family ties to another guy in the league? Not based on actual knowledge of scouting ability?

I've got news for you, this isn't at all abnormal. There are lots of family ties like this across the entire league.

Considering how connected these people are to the hockey world in general, it's no surprise stuff like this is common place. No reason to question it imo.

You think Chuck Fletcher got into the front office business purely on his own, or maybe his father Cliff had an impact on that?

 

[Spurgeon]

So you're hate on this move is simply based on family ties to another guy in the league? Not based on actual knowledge of scouting ability?

I've got news for you, this isn't at all abnormal. There are lots of family ties like this across the entire league.

Considering how connected these people are to the hockey world in general, it's no surprise stuff like this is common place. No reason to question it imo.

You think Chuck Fletcher got into the front office business purely on his own, or maybe his father Cliff had an impact on that?

Just because something that is commonplace doesn't mean that it is a good strategy and that it can't be criticized.

I don't remember as many situations with Fletcher where you could argue that he was bringing in people to return a favor.

 

[TaLoN]

Just because something that is commonplace doesn't mean that it is a good strategy and that it can't be criticized.

I don't remember as many situations with Fletcher where you could argue that he was bringing in people to return a favor.

You assume it's for a favor, and not based on actual scouting ability. I am not going to make such an assumption.

Again, these people are extremely connected to the hockey world in ways you and I never will be. That provides them with a level of access that scouts require to be successful. I don't see the problem.

Just because you didn't pay attention to who is related to whom under Fletcher, doesn't mean similar connections didn't exist.

You only know of this connection because you are very familiar with Chia as a GM.

 

[Spurgeon]

You assume it's for a favor, and not based on actual scouting ability. I am not going to make such an assumption.

Again, these people are extremely connected to the hockey world in ways you and I never will be. That provides them with a level of access that scouts require to be successful. I don't see the problem.

Just because you didn't pay attention to who is related to whom under Fletcher, doesn't mean similar connections didn't exist.

You only know of this connection because you are very familiar with Chia as a GM.

I don't assume it's for a favor, but I don't assume it's solely based on scouting abilities either. You don't think it's possible that Fenton's son being a scout under Chiarelli could play any role whatsoever in these signings?

 

[2Pair]

I don't assume it's for a favor, but I don't assume it's solely based on scouting abilities either. You don't think it's possible that Fenton's son being a scout under Chiarelli could play any role whatsoever in these signings?

I would assume that PJ having already worked with Chiarelli played a large role in this deal. That's how it's done, you bring the guys that are good at their job with you when you go someplace new.

Funny that you bring up Fletcher in this conversation. You are aware of why Fletcher got hired into hockey right? How about Fletcher bringing Flahr with him to Philly despite numerous reasons for that being a bad idea?

 

[TaLoN]

I don't assume it's for a favor, but I don't assume it's solely based on scouting abilities either. You don't think it's possible that Fenton's son being a scout under Chiarelli could play any role whatsoever in these signings?

Thinking it's possible doesn't change the fact that he could be very good at his job without my EVER knowing, and knowing he has the connections NEEDED to be successful at said job.

I see no reason for one possibility to supersede another, so I am neither happy or upset by the move.

It's a scouting hire to me... nothing more, nothing less. I'll never know the cost/ benefit of the hire anyway.

 

[Spurgeon]

I would assume that PJ having already worked with Chiarelli played a large role in this deal. That's how it's done, you bring the guys that are good at their job with you when you go someplace new.

Funny that you bring up Fletcher in this conversation. You are aware of why Fletcher got hired into hockey right? How about Fletcher bringing Flahr with him to Philly despite numerous reasons for that being a bad idea?

I think there's a difference between Fletcher bringing Flahr with him, as well as Yeo. They already had a repetoire with one another, so if he wants to reassemble the team that he had because he valued their contributions, I don't have a problem with it.

If PJ worked with those guys and they were apart of his team, I could definitely see the argument to be made then. However, even PJ running things rubs me the wrong way.

 

[2Pair]

I think there's a difference between Fletcher bringing Flahr with him, as well as Yeo. They already had a repetoire with one another, so if he wants to reassemble the team that he had because he valued their contributions, I don't have a problem with it.

If PJ worked with those guys and they were apart of his team, I could definitely see the argument to be made then. However, even PJ running things rubs me the wrong way.

Well, if you're just looking for reasons to be upset? It usually isn't too hard to find them.

 

[Spurgeon]

Thinking it's possible doesn't change the fact that he could be very good at his job without my EVER knowing, and knowing he has the connections NEEDED to be successful at said job.

I see no reason for one possibility to supersede another, so I am neither happy or upset by the move.

It's a scouting hire to me... nothing more, nothing less. I'll never know the cost/ benefit of the hire anyway.

In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big issue and they're unlikely to alter things significantly. I've just been very unimpressed with Fenton's tenure, so I put more things under a microscope when it comes to him running this organization.

Well, if you're just looking for reasons to be upset? It usually isn't too hard to find them.

Not looking for reasons to be upset, but I'll call them out when I see them.

 

[P10p]

And Mike Chiarelli's kid, I mean come the **** on.

You're falling back into a pretty neutral stance after quite the hot take to start this whole thing....

 

[Spurgeon]

You're falling back into a pretty neutral stance after quite the hot take to start this whole thing....

Hot take? "I mean come the f*** on." isn't a very aggressive take....

 

[TaLoN]

Hot take? "I mean come the **** on." isn't a very aggressive take....

Cursing about a hire isn't aggressive?

 

[thestonedkoala]

The only thing that I can say is please, please for the love of God - DON'T BRING IN PETER CHIARELLI AS A CONSULTANT.

I'm just glad we're starting to shake things up in the scouting department; long, long overdue. David Chiarelli just finished playing hockey, Mark Mowers is a bit questionable (Montreal Canadiens and then Buffalo Sabres), but hell new blood is good.

 

[Spurgeon]

Cursing about a hire isn't aggressive?

For a child it might be.

 

[DANOZ28]

well scout .com ranks us 25th with zero % chance of winning the the cup this year. maybe we'll get that top 10 pick next summer after all. NHL Power Rankings 19-20: Bet on Lightning and Capitals in East… San Jose and Calgary in West

 

[chchelseII]

Remember just three years ago, the Wild finished 2nd in the division, had 106 points, had a 12 game winning streak, had a 49-25 record and went to what would be their 5th of 6 consecutive playoffs. I do. It was fun watching the Wild then. I miss those days...............

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Remember just three years ago, the Wild finished 2nd in the division, had 106 points, had a 12 game winning streak, had a 49-25 record and went to what would be their 5th of 6 consecutive playoffs. I do. It was fun watching the Wild then. I miss those days...............

And half the board still wanted us to tank.

 

[SupremeNachos]

And half the board still wanted us to tank.

We could win 3 cups in a row and there would be plenty of people who would find something to complain about. If you looked at the Hawks or Penguins boards when they were winning it seemed like there was just as much negativity.

 

[absolute garbage]

Good call, I'd forgotten about that. Seems to be how these things go.

Apparently Mike covered Ontario for the Bruins from 2007-2015, and I'd assume he did the same for Edmonton from 2015-2019. Not sure if there are any conclusions to draw from those teams' OHL drafting over those periods or not. Looking at the lists, nothing jumps out as a red flag or anything.

What about the fact that Bruins drafting was arguably the worst in the NHL during that time frame? That's the Chiarelli & Benning era that started after Marchand/Lucic in 2006. Bust after bust after bust by an organisation run by two clueless, incompetent, abject morons who like to employ their family members. That's not a red flag?

Anyone who isn't seeing the gross nepotism and cronyism under Fenton is in denial.

 

[DANOZ28]

i try to focus on results and fenton hasn't done a good job imo. whiffed on our #1 pick his 1st try. did not win any of his trades and probably bellyflopped on the nino / rask trade. all may have been forgiven IF he had used our cap space wisely and landed a stud. i just don't see zuccarello as being the answer. i guess fenton will dig his own grave. i should give him credit for not going off the board this draft. boldy could turn into the next tuch or better yet rantanen.

 

[nickschultzfan]

What about the fact that Bruins drafting was arguably the worst in the NHL during that time frame? That's the Chiarelli & Benning era that started after Marchand/Lucic in 2006. Bust after bust after bust by an organisation run by two clueless, incompetent, abject morons who like to employ their family members. That's not a red flag?

Anyone who isn't seeing the gross nepotism and cronyism under Fenton is in denial.

It is also hard not to contrast the management of the Wild and the Wolves right now.

And half the board still wanted us to tank.

Ranger fans seem pretty happy right now about their strategic, precise tank.

 

[Bazeek]

What about the fact that Bruins drafting was arguably the worst in the NHL during that time frame? That's the Chiarelli & Benning era that started after Marchand/Lucic in 2006. Bust after bust after bust by an organisation run by two clueless, incompetent, abject morons who like to employ their family members. That's not a red flag?

Anyone who isn't seeing the gross nepotism and cronyism under Fenton is in denial.

I won't deny the nepotism; that boat sailed when he hired his son as a head scout. Whether or not that'll bite us remains to be seen though. I didn't see any major red flags from his first draft, at least.

But cronyism? To some extent there's no getting around that when every team is sort of recruiting from the same pool of guys. "Soandso was let go from Team X as part of management turnover this week. He's expected to join his old friend NewGM with Team Y. They were both assistants under OldGuy in City Z." It's probably inevitable that GMs tend to hire people that they know and have worked with first hand, or have worked with people they know and trust. Managers tend to be pretty risk-averse, and almost no one gets a job in this league without being friends with/related to the right people.

As for the Bruins drafting, I agree that the 2006-2015 range doesn't exactly blow me away. If we're talking specifically about OHL scouting though (since Ontario has reportedly been Mike's territory) it's more of a mixed bag. Are we supposed to hold him accountable for the Bruins taking Zach Hamill out of the WHL 12 years ago?

The Oilers' OHL scouting from 20016-2018 is similar: guys like Bouchard and McCleod in the 1st and guys like Samorkov (3rd) and Maksimov (5th) in the mid-late rounds. Not amazing, not awful

But the bottom line is that The Other Chiarelli is coming in as a scout, not a manager. He'll go back to Ontario, get his eyes on players and report back, not make trades or personnel decisions. And deciding that Mike Chiarelli must be a ****ty scout because his brother was a ****ty GM isn't all that convincing.

 

[Bazeek]

It is also hard not to contrast the management of the Wild and the Wolves right now.


Ranger fans seem pretty happy right now about their strategic, precise tank.

Fans of a rebuilding team are never happier than the summer before they're supposed to pull out of the dive. Actually pulling out of it is the hard part. Best of luck to them, but we'll see what happens.