GDT: Minnesota in town to get set ablaze by the CALGARY FLAMES. 7PM MTN

[Bounces R Way]

He left his feet after contact,

Not what I see. Jumps into it to make what would of been a high hit already even higher. His feet are in the air when contact is made.

 

[JPeeper]

For those calling me out for bitching about the refs (which is fine, we all have opinions and you can call me out), Peters walked out of the post-game presser when mentioning the missed trip on Backlund (partially because he was asked about the last 3 minutes multiple times, partially because you can see he is annoyed with that happened with the play).

Was asked various questions about the hit (clean or dirty), if what Lomberg did was a good play (he didn't admit to it, but he sent him out there intentionally), the trip itself, etc. In short he is pissed off at the officiating and blames them for Backlund taking the hit.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Johnny has 8pts in his last 3 games. Points in 5 straight. Think we might see him have a big December.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This is very simple, keep the topline together. Shift Bennett over to C and move Neal up to the 2nd line. Done.

Also I don’t think Dumba’s hit was really dirty, however he does need to be responsible for his body. I won’t be surprised at all if he gets suspended.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

We need Dube somewhere in this top nine I feel

 

[JPeeper]

I don't blame Dumba for going for the hit, he has every right and Backs was down trying to make the play. Watching it live I thought it was a good hit, on replay I thought it was dirty though as he seemed to get him with the elbow/forearm in the head, so imo it isn't a clean hit.

I don't think it's a suspension though, Lomberg gets a game though imo and Peters will get fined.

 

[SKRusty]

You're using loaded words that really don't have a ton of meaning. He left his feet after contact, which is simply the result of an elastic collision where the guy being hit has a lower centre of mass than the guy hitting. Dumba's arms were tucked going into contact, and an outward push is completely natural and instinctive when making a hit, because the resistive force from the person being hit pushes back against you. Follow-throughs are inevitable because of the nature of the physics in a hit. To better conceptualize this, think about what you would do if you were going to run into a wall. Now think about what your arms would do if the wall gave way.

Those two features you're talking about are both inevitable, and constants in hits that have this geometry. I don't fault you one bit for being mad about it given an important player got hurt and it could have been avoided, but I think you're misdirecting your rage in a bit of a witch hunt, and you're really reaching.

@Bounces R Way I slowed the video down to 1/4 speed. I won't upload it for copyright concerns but you all can do this at home.

1. 2.5 Seconds before Dumba corrects his line to ensure he is lined up with Backlunds head.
2. 2 Seconds until 0.5 seconds before Dumba Lowers his right shoulder readying it for a hit drawing his elbow in to his side bracing his body for the hit he is planning on delivering.
3. 0.25 Seconds before the hit Dumba turns his right skate deliberately and bends his knee readying himself to propel himself upwards. This knee movement also ensures Dumba's shoulder is 90 deg to Backlund's head.
4. 0.10 Seconds before contact Dumba is extending his knee driving his body into an upwards direction.
5. At contact Dumba's left skate is already approx 1.5 inches off the ice and in the next frame his right skate is over 2 inches off the ice.
6. Less than a tenth of a second later Dumba is driving his elbow up and through the hit. Dumba's skates are over 2.5 inches off the ice.

The NHL uses 0.6 seconds as their base reaction time for suspensions... Dumba is over 4 times that threshold from the time he first corrects his course.

Dumba had the opportunity to hit Backs on his right side dealing a glancing blow but chose to go to Backlund's left to mete out the most damage.

There is no way Parros looks past this hit. It is predatory almost in every way and he has much better HD video than I have and better video technicians.

 

[Anglesmith]

@Bounces R Way I slowed the video down to 1/4 speed. I won't upload it for copyright concerns but you all can do this at home.

1. 2.5 Seconds before Dumba corrects his line to ensure he is lined up with Backlunds head.

.....

Dumba had the opportunity to hit Backs on his right side dealing a glancing blow but chose to go to Backlund's left to mete out the most damage.

Right here is where I think your main misunderstanding with the rule lies here. The hitter's responsibility is to make a hit through the centre of the body. This is representative of the defensive motivation behind the body-check in the first place. By checking through the centre of the puck-carrier, you maximize the chance of accomplishing the goal of the check. It is also the fairest expectation, as it is easiest for a hitter to target the centre of mass when compared to targeting or avoiding specific parts of the body. In addition, while the head is often located in the centre of the body, a check delivered through the centre of the body avoids catching a weaker body part such as an arm or a knee with enough torque to break a bone or ligament. So believe it or not, there is a safety element there. It also precludes players from avoiding the centre of the body specifically to target an injury.

What I see is that Dumba recognized that Backlund could possibly cut to his right, but not to his left, so he approached from the right side (Backlund's left). He aimed his hit for the centre of Backlund's body, which is where Backlund's head was. The fact that he corrected his line to ensure he was lined up with Backlund's head is the same fact that he corrected his line to ensure he was lined up with Backlund's body. Backlund's attempt to mitigate impact was to lean back slightly to his right, which slightly changed how this all lined up on impact.

The last point you make there, that Backlund could have made a "glancing blow," is not one that the NHL would consider important. Hitting through the centre of the body is always allowed (assuming other rules aren't believe violated such as elbowing or interference). There is never an expectation for a player to reduce the defensive impact of his hit in order to protect the opposition player on an open-ice hit.

Peters didn't even suggest it was an illegal hit, and I think there's pretty much zero chance that supplemental discipline gets applied here. I am trying to let you down gently here.

 

[SKRusty]

Right here is where I think your main misunderstanding with the rule lies here. The hitter's responsibility is to make a hit through the centre of the body. This is representative of the defensive motivation behind the body-check in the first place. By checking through the centre of the puck-carrier, you maximize the chance of accomplishing the goal of the check. It is also the fairest expectation, as it is easiest for a hitter to target the centre of mass when compared to targeting or avoiding specific parts of the body. In addition, while the head is often located in the centre of the body, a check delivered through the centre of the body avoids catching a weaker body part such as an arm or a knee with enough torque to break a bone or ligament. So believe it or not, there is a safety element there. It also precludes players from avoiding the centre of the body specifically to target an injury.

What I see is that Dumba recognized that Backlund could possibly cut to his right, but not to his left, so he approached from the right side (Backlund's left). He aimed his hit for the centre of Backlund's body, which is where Backlund's head was. The fact that he corrected his line to ensure he was lined up with Backlund's head is the same fact that he corrected his line to ensure he was lined up with Backlund's body. Backlund's attempt to mitigate impact was to lean back slightly to his right, which slightly changed how this all lined up on impact.

The last point you make there, that Backlund could have made a "glancing blow," is not one that the NHL would consider important. Hitting through the centre of the body is always allowed (assuming other rules aren't believe violated such as elbowing or interference). There is never an expectation for a player to reduce the defensive impact of his hit in order to protect the opposition player on an open-ice hit.

Peters didn't even suggest it was an illegal hit, and I think there's pretty much zero chance that supplemental discipline gets applied here. I am trying to let you down gently here.

The turning of the skate and coiling of the knee shows Dumba's intention. He launched himself into the hit with the principal point of contact being the head.

As a reference Sundqvist was a scoring position and not in the defensive zone. Almost the identical hit.

 

[Anglesmith]

The turning of the skate and coiling of the knee shows Dumba's intention. He launched himself into the hit with the principal point of contact being the head.

As a reference Sundqvist was a scoring position and not in the defensive zone. Almost the identical hit.

Not close to the same hit in any way. The angle of approach is different. The choices available to the hitter are different. The hits themselves are different, and the results are different.

I'll go back to simple physics. Watch what happens to Wilson's body during his hit of Sundqvist's head on this play. His momentum is barely disturbed as the only resistance he encounters comes from the head and neck muscles of his victim. This is exactly what the term "glancing blow" refers to. In this case, based on Wilson's angle of approach, the head was not (and never was) in the centre of the body. Wilson had a route through the body, and a route through the head, and picked the latter. This is what the league constantly refers to as "picking the head."

In the Dumba hit, those two routes are one and the same. Going through the body means going through the head, too. In order to deliver a glancing blow, he would have to avoid hitting through the centre of the body. The resistance that Dumba's body encounters, and the change to his momentum that results, further proves that he checked through the body. He comes to a complete stand-still as a result of the impact. This is not the case when you pick the head.

I'm not sure what you think is even similar between those two hits based on the observations that you yourself have made.

 

[King In The North]

I can see Peters moving Ryan to the second line. I also wouldn't mind Janko moving up as he's been playing well. Czarnik as 4th line C.

 

[crackdown44]

This is very simple, keep the topline together. Shift Bennett over to C and move Neal up to the 2nd line. Done.

Also I don’t think Dumba’s hit was really dirty, however he does need to be responsible for his body. I won’t be surprised at all if he gets suspended.

I don’t hate this, I also wouldn’t mind seeing them bump Janko up and let Czarnik play some C in the bottom 6. Something like

Tkachuk-Janko-Neal/Benny
Bread-Czarnik/Ryan-Neal/Benny
Hathaway-Czarnik/Ryan-Whoever is left

 

[joescores]

Tkachuk Janko Czarnik/Bennett for me

 

[Nanuuk]

That was a dirty hit and Peters was quite right in calling out the ref's for putting away their whistles. The officiating this year has been pretty sad. There were also a number of slashes not called.

If Backs is concussed and Lomberg suspended, I could see the Flames calling up Rychel and Peluso for this weekend's games.

As far as the lineup goes...

Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm
Tkachuk/Czarnik/Bennett or Benny in the middle
Mangiapane/Jankowski/Neal
Rychel/Ryan/Hathaway

 

[crazyfisherman]

If backlunds out, peluso will prob play against the oil

 

[DCDM]

If backlunds out, peluso will prob play against the oil

I was going to say that Peluso and Lomberg in the lineup at the same time makes this team horrendously worse, but Lomberg is probably getting suspended so yeah maybe.

 

[King In The North]

It was just a dumb (not illegal) hit.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I don't think the Dumba hit is that bad, or at least not as bad as it looked. The biggest concern for me with that hit is that his feet completely left the ice, and thus the hit was high.

The best outcome from this is that Lomberg stood up for Backs. Hate to be that guy but kind of disappointing response from Gio there.

 

[Fig]

It was just a dumb (not illegal) hit.

I think it was equal fault. I dunno why Backlund was so unaware of his situation. That was dumb.

It was just a dumb and Dumba situation.


Some of you are acting like Dumba is the Queen of Hearts and premeditated his:

IMO, most of the hit is just a lot of unfortunate situation. I don't think Dumba was trying to hurt him.

 

[crazyfisherman]

I was going to say that Peluso and Lomberg in the lineup at the same time makes this team horrendously worse, but Lomberg is probably getting suspended so yeah maybe.

I also think lomberg is not big enough to handle the Neanderthals in Edmonton

 

[super6646]

Calgary Flames Mikael Backlund out Indefinitly with Undisclosed Injury

Dont know if the source is reliable, but that isn't good if true.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Tkachuk-Bennet/Jankowski-Neal please.

Or go real crazy

Tkachuk-Czarnik-Neal


Or do we do the unthinkable and split up the top line

Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Tkachuk-Lindholm-Czarnik/Bennett/etc.

We've been really blessed on defense with young guys stepping up this season, maybe we can get a guy like Czarnik/Mangipane/Jankowski/Bennett really step up with Backlund out.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Lindholm as the 2C makes the most sense on paper, but I loathe to split up that top line. It's been so good.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Lindholm as the 2C makes the most sense on paper, but I loathe to split up that top line. It's been so good.

I hear you. But does it hurt as bad if he gels with Tkachuk and it gets Neal going a little at the same time?

Plus it's Peters. He's gonna blend.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I hear you. But does it hurt as bad if he gels with Tkachuk and it gets Neal going a little at the same time?

Plus it's Peters. He's gonna blend.

I think it hurts because who do you play on the top line then? Neal I guess is the most obvious option but he didn't look good with Gaudreau previously, too slow.

But I think you're right we are gonna see the Peters Vitamix™ Blended Lines Smoothie.