Mini Rebuild

[WayneSid9987]

Don't believe any type of rebuild works in terms of getting Sid and Geno back on top of the mountain unless theres a new vision/philosophy change.
I don't believe their next push, if you will, will have JR or Sully at the helm.
It's time to suck and feel the pain. < That usually means good things are coming in the Sid/G era so you just gotta hope they have one or 2 good pushes left in them.

 

[SirBrad]

I really don't think trading older players with a lot of money due and bad history of staying healthy is going to net you much in terms of draft picks. If anything, they (Letang, Malkin, Horny specifically) would be salary dumps. I just don't see getting multiple 1st/2nd round picks for those guys. And I really don't see the point in that unless they're going to go out there and make a real splash in free agency - which I don't see.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Few things....

We won b2b cups with worse lineups than we have now. When does it stop being the players and on the coach/System? Guarantee players like McCann, Galchenyuk, Bjugstad, etc would have been great during that 2 year span with Sully. Since everyone we called up did well...we had Scott Wilson on our 2nd line while beating the Preds for example.

Also...IF we are obviously out of it come Feb....then Id def sell off Schultz and others. Get high picks to add to our already much improved prospect pool. While also getting a lottery pick and a chance at top 3? Even if we dont win that....theres some great talent .

Next...we dont have to dish out big contracts to players like Schultz, McCann, Galchenyuk, or even Murray. So we wouldnt be forced to make room by dumping others...we would have ple ty of "assets".

This is all while our prospects continue to improve btw and get closer to being ready. The guys in WBS and then Hallander, Legare, Poulin, Addison, Almeida, etc.

Missing the playoffs could do wonders...it did for The Bruins. Sharks. And so on. Crosby and Malkin will still be elite next year.


Again...this is assuming injuries are just too much to overcome. And if they don't fire Sully to turn things around.

Did a gutsy thing getting rid of Kessel after he helped us win b2b cups. The same should be applied to coaches who arent the right fit anymore. He was perfect in getting our team focused...but his system continues to allow too many breakdowns and not enough scoring.

Murray is also going thru the typical young goalie ups and downs....inconsistent. And you can't blame our D. Or lack of scoring. Look at the ECF against Sens. Frustrating as hell...started off just like the Isles series last year. Fleury allowed us to win game 2(keeping it 1-1 til Kessel won it at the end) and then he gets pulled game 3. We are down 2-1 and make the switch to Murray and nevr look back. He made the stops needed to win. Game 7....double OT....do you think we get to that point with this version of Murray? No way. He also shutout the Preds in game 6 of finals. Anyway....alot keep talking about our lineup but Murray is a huge factor. Hes fine when we are scoring 4+ goals...but cant seem to keep us in the games where we can't score...and need an ugly low scoring win. Def didnt happen against the Sens.

Look at 2018 playoffs..was opposite. Our scoring thru the roof with line 1. Others would have picked it up eventually. Murray couldnt make the saves agaisnt the Caps. Yes we had too many mistakes. But we also did during the b2b cup years..

We keep trying to find this perfect line up. All 3 cups we didnt have that. Goaltending was a huge factor.

I wouldn't give Murray a big deal after this season. Id extend him another 3 years or so...for 5mil. With incentives in there for a much higher pay. If he doesnt understand that then idk if hes the goalie of our future anyway. I still think he can be...but hes def not the Murray we saw in 16 and 17.

This down year(if we have one) could end up being what gets us another cup or two actually.

 

[Freeptop]

I feels like the Pens are in a bit of a Catch-22,:
If you try to tear it down now, it's just too soon. Sid and Geno are no longer in their prime, but they're still elite players. Their pride will drag the Pens at least to bubble status, if not into the playoffs, for a while to come. So you end up not quite being bad enough to get the high-end draft picks, but you're also not quite good enough any more to win the Cup, or maybe even make the playoffs, as you've unloaded the supporting cast, and simply hoping that the prospects can be good enough (most won't be, statistically speaking). Then you've stockpiled prospects who aren't the top-end ones, and they all become NHL ready, just in time for Sid and Geno to retire. So now you no longer have the vets to trade for more picks and you're bad, because you just don't have enough high-end talent. So you have to go through another rebuild, when you just went through one (See: Oilers, Sabres).

If you don't tear it down now, and just keep going for it, you risk simply dragging out a period of mediocrity: trading assets to try to improve enough to maybe be good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win the Cup. On the flip-side, this sets them up better for when Sid and Geno are at the end of their careers, and it really is time to rebuild in earnest. Sell off the vets at that time, get some high draft picks, and maybe have those prospects overlap with Sid and/or Geno for a year to two.

Then there's the option they're going with now: re-tool on the fly. Trade older players who aren't working out for whatever reason for younger players who aren't working out for their current team, but might for the Pens. There's plenty of risk. This could just as easily end up with a dragged-out period of mediocrity as well. But it at least has a better chance of catching lightning in a bottle. Plus, you can still fall back on the "rebuild at the end of Sid and Geno's careers" path.

I know some people are hoping for a scenario where the Pens bring in enough young guys that once Sid and Geno retire, the young players can pick up the slack and continue to carry the team forward to the playoffs and more Cups. The Red Wings thought they could do that post-Lidstrom, and well, it hasn't been pretty. I just don't see a realistic path for the Pens that goes down that route. There's no equivalent to being the only team scouting most of Europe and drafting late-round gems like the Red Wings did when they landed Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen any more (especially since you can't even draft 25 year olds anymore, like the Red Wings did when they drafted Franzen...).

The only likely way to really get to a "draft high sooner rather than later" would be to not have Sid and Geno. I'd rather still get to watch them play for a bit longer, myself....

 

[BeatenLikeRentedMule]

There is no saving this team in the near term. Bad contracts, bad signings, bad trades. This team is too far from what it was after winning it all in 2017. Expect this franchise to undergo years of losing after this core is retired.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Few things....

We won b2b cups with worse lineups than we have now. When does it stop being the players and on the coach/System? Guarantee players like McCann, Galchenyuk, Bjugstad, etc would have been great during that 2 year span with Sully. Since everyone we called up did well...we had Scott Wilson on our 2nd line while beating the Preds for example.

Also...IF we are obviously out of it come Feb....then Id def sell off Schultz and others. Get high picks to add to our already much improved prospect pool. While also getting a lottery pick and a chance at top 3? Even if we dont win that....theres some great talent .

Next...we dont have to dish out big contracts to players like Schultz, McCann, Galchenyuk, or even Murray. So we wouldnt be forced to make room by dumping others...we would have ple ty of "assets".

This is all while our prospects continue to improve btw and get closer to being ready. The guys in WBS and then Hallander, Legare, Poulin, Addison, Almeida, etc.

Missing the playoffs could do wonders...it did for The Bruins. Sharks. And so on. Crosby and Malkin will still be elite next year.


Again...this is assuming injuries are just too much to overcome. And if they don't fire Sully to turn things around.

Did a gutsy thing getting rid of Kessel after he helped us win b2b cups. The same should be applied to coaches who arent the right fit anymore. He was perfect in getting our team focused...but his system continues to allow too many breakdowns and not enough scoring.

Murray is also going thru the typical young goalie ups and downs....inconsistent. And you can't blame our D. Or lack of scoring. Look at the ECF against Sens. Frustrating as hell...started off just like the Isles series last year. Fleury allowed us to win game 2(keeping it 1-1 til Kessel won it at the end) and then he gets pulled game 3. We are down 2-1 and make the switch to Murray and nevr look back. He made the stops needed to win. Game 7....double OT....do you think we get to that point with this version of Murray? No way. He also shutout the Preds in game 6 of finals. Anyway....alot keep talking about our lineup but Murray is a huge factor. Hes fine when we are scoring 4+ goals...but cant seem to keep us in the games where we can't score...and need an ugly low scoring win. Def didnt happen against the Sens.

Look at 2018 playoffs..was opposite. Our scoring thru the roof with line 1. Others would have picked it up eventually. Murray couldnt make the saves agaisnt the Caps. Yes we had too many mistakes. But we also did during the b2b cup years..

We keep trying to find this perfect line up. All 3 cups we didnt have that. Goaltending was a huge factor.

I wouldn't give Murray a big deal after this season. Id extend him another 3 years or so...for 5mil. With incentives in there for a much higher pay. If he doesnt understand that then idk if hes the goalie of our future anyway. I still think he can be...but hes def not the Murray we saw in 16 and 17.

This down year(if we have one) could end up being what gets us another cup or two actually.

No, the answer is no.

Look at the players from then 'til now, their roles and what they contributed. Those three players could have helped back then if the others are still in place.

McCann could have replaced a Rust.
Galchenyuk could have replaced Sheary
Bjugstad would certainly replace Fehr

But there are key contributors I'd never say they could be in place of.

Kessel and his elite skills, shot and scoring.
Hagelin and his post season experience, speed and PK abillities.
Bonino and his PK, shot blocking and two way play.
Kunitz and his hitting, scoring, and clutchness in the post season.
Cullen and his PK, speed and the knack to get you a goal when you need one.

This team doesn't even rival 2009. The closest cup winner with lesser talent of the 3.

 

[KIRK]

No, the answer is no.

Look at the players from then 'til now, their roles and what they contributed. Those three players could have helped back then if the others are still in place.

McCann could have replaced a Rust.
Galchenyuk could have replaced Sheary
Bjugstad would certainly replace Fehr

But there are key contributors I'd never say they could be in place of.

Kessel and his elite skills, shot and scoring.
Hagelin and his post season experience, speed and PK abillities.
Bonino and his PK, shot blocking and two way play.
Kunitz and his hitting, scoring, and clutchness in the post season.
Cullen and his PK, speed and the knack to get you a goal when you need one.

This team doesn't even rival 2009. The closest cup winner with lesser talent of the 3.

Thinking Johnson would replace Cole probably wasn't the brightest idea either.

 

[Peat]

It is probably too late to mini-rebuild for Sid/Geno's window using the draft unless you get lottery picks.

You can try a mini-rebuild of moving tired veterans for promising hungry players but that's a series of gambles that take time. I think it's a process that's been happening but hasn't born fruit yet.

And tbf, very few things bear fruit in the NHL when missing 20m worth of forwards. Judgment of what we have here is very premature.

 

[Pens1566]

Eh, we're kind of mid mini-rebuild if you look at the turnover since beginning of last season. If you start getting rid of JMFJ, Bjugs, dare I say Schultz and Horny, then it's a full on stealth rebuild.