Confirmed Trade: [MIN/PIT] Jason Zucker for 2021 1st round pick, Alex Galchenyuk, and Calen Addison

[Honour Over Glory]

We'll see what happens this year, but once Guentzel gets back next year things will get REALLY interesting. They might be able to scoop the underperforming Granlund this year for the playoffs, or the Canes might want to move the underperforming Nino and his contract...perhaps for Bjugstad?

Nino has some attributes that will help come playoff time.

That would be a tough sell to get the Canes to want Bjugstad for Nino, the Pens are already giving up their 1st (conditional) and Addison in the Zucker trade and moved Chucky in that as well, so assets wise, the Pens are then digging into their prospect pool and picks even more and currently they don't have their 1st or 2nd in this year's draft.

Picks can always be traded for near the draft, but there is just no way Bjug for Nino as the main pieces work without the Pens having to put in a pretty substantial add, then there's the cap issues that come along with that.

If the Pens were going to trade with the Canes, I'd probably want Foegele and Edmundson as it fills more of the things the Pens need, an LD so JJ isn't a regular anymore and until Dumoulin is back and Foegele has some elements to his game that would really allow Sullivan to actually use him.

 

[Riptide]

Name me one team that would rather have nice draft picks and not sniff a Stanley Cup? When you have exceptional talents the franchise has to be all in to win for that period. Yes eventually it ends, but for the run, nothing is off limits. Who right now looks to be a team that goes to 4 finals in 10 years. Plus Pens could go to another final or win a cup. If Toronto, Edmonton and a couple others do that from here good for them. But I wouldn't bet on it.

People don't really realize how special this team is and the gift that Crosby and Malkin have provided us over the past 15 seasons. Their teams will likely never do this, and thus they have to worry about the future. Pittsburgh is pretty unique in this regard in today's NHL. Our "future" will last as long as Crosby and Malkin continue playing at a high level. After that we'll crash hard and fast. And almost every single Pen fan will agree it was more than worth it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

People don't really realize how special this team is and the gift that Crosby and Malkin have provided us over the past 15 seasons. Their teams will likely never do this, and thus they have to worry about the future. Pittsburgh is pretty unique in this regard in today's NHL. Our "future" will last as long as Crosby and Malkin continue playing at a high level. After that we'll crash hard and fast. And almost every single Pen fan will agree it was more than worth it.

Yeah the worst part of the Mario/Jagr era was that all we got out of it was 2 cups, they should have had more, with Geno & Sid's era, the Pens have won 3 cups, if they can win another 1 or 2 out of the rest of their careers, it would have been all worth it.

The future isn't bleek though, guys like Jake, Marino, one of Jarry/Murray etc are guys that this team can definitely build around and if Marino is any indication, you can still get some damn good talent without having to draft them.

 

[stardog]

....and cross your fingers in hopes of again striking gold by winning the lottery and drafting HOFers two years in a row.

Which wasn't pure, dumb luck which they simply bumbled their way into. For sure there was some great pieces of luck which allowed the Pens to catch lightning in a bottle, but there was also several instances of bad luck which was crushing at the time and seemed to go against the Pens in a franchise altering way.
Several of those came straight from decisions made by the NHL regarding the draft lottery.
Many forget that the Pens were quite easily the worst team in the NHL after the 2003/04 season and the solace was in the knowledge that we would have great odds of picking up the most hyped prospect since Eric Lindros.
Everyone looks at the odds and thinks that the Penguins, per lottery rules of finishing the previous season in last place had 25% odds of winning the lottery, which technically is true. But the team didn't care about winning the lottery. Because in order to have the top draft pick, and draft Alex Ovechkin, the Penguins just needed for the Blackhawks, the Caps or the Blue Jackets to NOT win. Because a team can only move up 4 spots based on where they finished the previous season, the Pens would retain the first overall pick if any of the 15 teams in the lottery (except for the 3 mentioned above) won. So 12 out of 15 teams could win the lottery and the Pens would still win and the odds of this happening was right around 50%. Great odds.
Of course the Caps won, and it seemed like a huge kick in the nuts because at the time, the scouting community wasn't like today and all of the attention coming out at the time was rightfully focusing on Ovechkin. Very few people, especially fans on this side of the pond had even heard of Malkin, and even fewer expected that he would be just as good as Ovechkin. Reports started coming in about him weeks later which were actually pretty impressive but mostly the Pens fanbase wasn't happy and had pinned their hopes on winning the 2005 lottery, knowing that the team was even worse than in 2004 and thus would again have around 50% chance again to get the number one pick and grab a prospect hyped even more than Ovie and had been since he was 14. That of course would be one Sidney Crosby.

Well the league then kicked our fanbase in the nuts once more by the labor dispute which killed the entire season.
In the aftermath the lottery used (which was collectively bargained) was vastly different and the several criterias used placed 4 teams with the best chances of winning.
Ironically, had Pittsburgh won the draft lottery in Ovie's year when they had a 50% chance of doing so, it is HIGHLY probable that they would never have drafted Crosby as one of the criteria for lowering a teams odds for winning the 05 lottery was your team couldn't have had a first overall draft pick from 2000/01 until then.
So thanks again Washington!
Problem is had the season played like expected, the 50% scenario for the Penguins to draft Sid was likely. And while the team was still 1 of the 4 with the greatest number of met criteria and the best chances of winning (along with Rangers, Sabres and BJ's) there was zero rules about how many slots a team which won the lottery could move up because no season was played thus no way of establishing a draft order based on the standings. So nobody could count on the rule limiting a team being able to only jump up four slots to protect their hold on their position or such a rule increasing the odds.
And while the 4 teams which had met the established criteria did have the best odds equally, they were still pretty crappy because each of those 4 teams had only a firm 6.3% chance of winning the lottery.
Which for fans who had sat through several seasons of bad hockey and who were convinced by having 2 years of great odds of a 50% chance of getting a franchise player there was a dang good chance of getting at least one, if not 2, to now have a 6.3% last chance of only getting one because of an incompetent commissioner was really depressing.

Worked out but still find it interesting and I don't know that the details of how close it came to the teams in the East 0f having a wildly different power structure are all that common of knowledge

 

[stardog]

It wasn't so much fun after the 3-1 comeback in 2014, the 5 game 1 and done in 2015, you all said horrible things about Crosby and Malkin and wanted them both traded and a full on rebuild.

Hell there was like a 20 minute meltdown when Jeff Zatkoff lead the Penguins onto the ice for Game 1 in 2016.

We"all" did, huh?
Cuz I personally have never uttered a negative word about Malkin.

And thank you kindly for the reminder that bitterness is unreasonable.
Because pointing out losses at key moments clearly contradicts the point which I thought was obvious, which is the overall ride has been fun.
Guess one misses that point when the team they follow hasn't won anything during their lifespan.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It wasn't so much fun after the 3-1 comeback in 2014, the 5 game 1 and done in 2015, you all said horrible things about Crosby and Malkin and wanted them both traded and a full on rebuild.

Hell there was like a 20 minute meltdown when Jeff Zatkoff lead the Penguins onto the ice for Game 1 in 2016.

Nah mate, that was never the case. We were on pins and needles with Zatkoff starting sure, but the Crosby and Malkin bits? That's just rubbish. Every fan base here has a few that act that way and wander mostly on the main board and barely post in the Pens forum, I am sure those same folks aren't even active members here anymore.

There has never been a point where any of us wanted Malkin or Crosby gone in a trade.

 

[wej20]

This was hilarious:

What is it with hockey players wearing tuques inside? During the game last night they showed Guentzel and Dumoulin in the pressbox and both were in full suits, coats and tuques. Is it really that cold in the arena?

 

[Ignatius]

Speaking of which I happen to know a highly gifted player having a career year on a team that's out of the playoff hunt

*This ad was sponsored by the TripleT Coalition (Trade Tomas Tatar)

I have always thought that Nick Bjustad would look nice in a Habs sweater. I think Pittsburgh would be willing to help Montreal out by making this a reality AND we would even throw in Zack Aston-Reese! ZAR did have as many goals as Tatar sauce did last night

 

[Empoleon8771]

He was a 25 guy that put up 33 with Eric Staal on the downside of his career

I think you're selling his potential a little short there

At least from discussions on the Penguins board, I think there are some Penguins fans that are setting their expectations for Zucker low because of how burned people got by Brassard. People were expecting massive things when the Penguins acquired Brassard, to the point where they thought he'd be hitting 50-60 points as a 3C, and he absolutely flopped in Pittsburgh. He was way worse for the Penguins than Galchenyuk was, and that's not an exaggeration.

I've seen people on the Penguins board only expecting 40-45 points out of Zucker, and people think 55 points is an unreasonable expectation. I think it's just setting expectations low so you won't be disappointed.

 

[TJL48]

Not a fan of Zucker, but think he is perfect for the Penguins. He is a passenger and needs someone to get him the puck in shooting positions. I think he'll produce great with Crosby and someone will grossly overpay him on his next contract based on that.

And Penguin fans might not have seen it yet but about once a game he'll come off the ice on one leg, or hunched over, and you'll think he is really injured. You hope he doesn't miss time. He'll be back on for his next shift.

 

[57special]

So (assuming that the 2019-20 season is finished) and the league rules that PIT doesn't have to give over their 1st till the 2021 draft, PIT has made out pretty well in this deal, and the stoppage favors them. A healthy PIT next year(Dumo, Guentzel,Crosby ) will be even better, with Zucker making the 2nd line/Malkin even more dangerous. They can use the 2020 1st for themselves, or use it as further trade ammo to load up even more.

MN has to wait another year to use their pick, and will likely get a later pick than what they would get in 2020.

Not a disaster for MN, or a big win for PIT, but there is no doubt that the latter will prefer the league rules that the conditions of the trade have not been met, and that MN will not.

 

[2Pair]

Don't see much chance that the league lets Pitt keep that pick.

 

[Super Cake]

Don't see much chance that the league lets Pitt keep that pick.

There is a condition on that pick:

"*Conditions: If Pittsburgh misses the 2019-20 playoffs, Pittsburgh has the option to send their 2021 1st round pick instead."
takenfrom 2020 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So if the season is entirely cancelled, the Pens can technically argue that they missed the playoffs this year.

 

[uncleben]

There is a condition on that pick:

"*Conditions: If Pittsburgh misses the 2019-20 playoffs, Pittsburgh has the option to send their 2021 1st round pick instead."
takenfrom 2020 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So if the season is entirely cancelled, the Pens can technically argue that they missed the playoffs this year.

Yeah, the way that it is worded, MIN will get a pick no matter what, but PIT should be able to choose.

 

[AKL]

There is a condition on that pick:

"*Conditions: If Pittsburgh misses the 2019-20 playoffs, Pittsburgh has the option to send their 2021 1st round pick instead."
takenfrom 2020 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So if the season is entirely cancelled, the Pens can technically argue that they missed the playoffs this year.

No playoffs means they didn’t miss the playoffs because there were no playoffs. If they don’t resume this season at all, playoffs included, they’ll likely do reverse standings order for picks, which would have Pittsburgh at 25, and I doubt Pittsburgh would have any objection to giving that pick away. If they do resume, Pittsburgh will make the playoffs, and they won’t have the choice.

I’d peg it as 95% likely Minnesota will be making that pick whenever the draft happens.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Pittsburgh will likely get the choice of 2020 or 2021. They appear to be the 24th pick at the moment. If they elect for 2021 they would need to make round 2 to break even or make round 3 or 4 to come out ahead. A decent gamble.

 

[Jumptheshark]

So (assuming that the 2019-20 season is finished) and the league rules that PIT doesn't have to give over their 1st till the 2021 draft, PIT has made out pretty well in this deal, and the stoppage favors them. A healthy PIT next year(Dumo, Guentzel,Crosby ) will be even better, with Zucker making the 2nd line/Malkin even more dangerous. They can use the 2020 1st for themselves, or use it as further trade ammo to load up even more.

MN has to wait another year to use their pick, and will likely get a later pick than what they would get in 2020.

Not a disaster for MN, or a big win for PIT, but there is no doubt that the latter will prefer the league rules that the conditions of the trade have not been met, and that MN will not.

IF the league rules it will affect a lot of teams who had conditions attached to their trades

not just the pens

 

[AKL]

IF the league rules it will affect a lot of teams who had conditions attached to their trades

not just the pens

Yeah but this is the thread for that specific pick, so what’s your point?

 

[Lenerdosy]

Yeah but this is the thread for that specific pick, so what’s your point?

That would be a lot of jumbling around, I could see the receiving teams of conditonal picks around the league making a stink and the league just stopping things status quo, saying "you would have made the playoffs at the cancellation so you have to give it up"

 

[Lenerdosy]

Yeah but this is the thread for that specific pick, so what’s your point?

That would be a lot of jumbling around, I could see the receiving teams of conditonal picks around the league making a stink and the league just stopping things status quo, saying "you would have made the playoffs at the cancellation so you have to give it up"

 

[2Pair]

There is a condition on that pick:

"*Conditions: If Pittsburgh misses the 2019-20 playoffs, Pittsburgh has the option to send their 2021 1st round pick instead."
takenfrom 2020 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So if the season is entirely cancelled, the Pens can technically argue that they missed the playoffs this year.

And if we want to take this route, Minnesota has the argument that they were shorted 20ish games from Galchenyuk plus a probable playoff run. What does Pittsburgh have to add to the deal to make up for that?

 

[AKL]

That would be a lot of jumbling around, I could see the receiving teams of conditonal picks around the league making a stink and the league just stopping things status quo, saying "you would have made the playoffs at the cancellation so you have to give it up"

Effectively, and I’m not going to go around and make a list of all conditional trades made this season, but Pittsburgh traded a 2020 1st to Minnesota. The league will say, the conditions were unable to be met, so you will give them the 2020 1st like you agreed on.

This is an unprecedented situation, and like you said, there would be a lot of jumbling, which would lead to a huge gray area for a lot of these deals, so yes, it would be easier for the league to just look at the black and white of the deal and ignore conditions. Especially in this case.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Yeah but this is the thread for that specific pick, so what’s your point?

take a look at several trades and you will get your answer

nearly all 1st round picks traded have some sort of condition applied to them

 

[uncleben]

take a look at several trades and you will get your answer

nearly all 1st round picks traded have some sort of condition applied to them

None of the deadline deals had any conditions that would downgrade or stop the transaction of a 1st round pick though; in all of those picks, a 1st is guaranteed to be exchanged, it's just a matter of what year.


As for the pick in this deal, MIN will get a pick no matter what. Imo, since PIT did not qualify for the Playoffs (if the season is completely cancelled) , the condition should be triggered such that PIT can choose

 

[Gurglesons]

None of the deadline deals had any conditions that would downgrade or stop the transaction of a 1st round pick though; in all of those picks, a 1st is guaranteed to be exchanged, it's just a matter of what year.


As for the pick in this deal, MIN will get a pick no matter what. Imo, since PIT did not qualify for the Playoffs (if the season is completely cancelled) , the condition should be triggered such that PIT can choose

Would be pretty wonderful for us to get the 1st in what will likely be an altered 2005 style lottery this year.