Player Discussion: Mikhail Sergachev

[CupsOverCash]

Sergachev's breakout is a good indication that whatever's been wrong with the team hasn't really been an issue with the skaters. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I jumped onto the Lightning bandwagon with Yzerman, but a top-3 of Hedman (scoring a ppg), McDonagh, and this version of Sergachev is likely the best the team has ever had. Unless I'm forgetting some major supporting players in the Dan Boyle years.

Nope. Easily the best top 3 in franchise history. The year we won the cup the D was good but it was Khabibulin that was the hero back there. Boyle was the puck mover and our other top guys were good defenders and good at blocking shots. Getting Darryl Sydor was huge for that D though.

 

[FromChaos22]

How slight of a chance is there he takes more PP time from Hedman within the next couple years?

 

[The Macho King]

How slight of a chance is there he takes more PP time from Hedman within the next couple years?

Hedman is the best PP dman in the league. So not until he stops being that.

He'd be the #1 PP option from the point for probably a full half of the teams in the league right now - just unfortunate to be behind Hedman. That's fine though - he makes our PP2 more threatening than most teams.

 

[AndreRoy]

The real question is if he’ll even be on the team after this season. Even if we manage to trade Killorn without taking any salary back, fitting both Cirelli and Sergachev under the cap is going to be next to impossible unless the cap rises significantly more than expected.

 

[The Macho King]

The real question is if he’ll even be on the team after this season. Even if we manage to trade Killorn without taking any salary back, fitting both Cirelli and Sergachev under the cap is going to be next to impossible unless the cap rises significantly more than expected.

I don't think that's accurate. We have 8 million with zero increase - let's assume 2m and we have a bit over 10m in cap space. McAvoy's contract created the ceiling for Sergachev, and Cirelli is going to look for significantly less than Point. So with 14.7m (assuming Killorn is moved for futures), we end up with those two taking probably ~7m of it. Not saying we won't have to make some additional moves, but that's manageable.

And thankfully Cernak has been keeping his price to re-sign down.

 

[AndreRoy]

I don't think that's accurate. We have 8 million with zero increase - let's assume 2m and we have a bit over 10m in cap space. McAvoy's contract created the ceiling for Sergachev, and Cirelli is going to look for significantly less than Point. So with 14.7m (assuming Killorn is moved for futures), we end up with those two taking probably ~7m of it. Not saying we won't have to make some additional moves, but that's manageable.

And thankfully Cernak has been keeping his price to re-sign down.

That $8M in cap space we have next season is with only 12 players signed.

 

[The Macho King]

That $8M in cap space we have next season is with only 12 players signed.

And we have internal replacements who will be playing at league min (or close to it) for a lot of those positions. Re-signing Serge, Cirelli, and Cernak ends up with 3 of those spots filled, meaning we need 5/6 more - a #6/7 D (presumably Foote on an ELC), a fourth line winger and two third line wingers, and two spares. Stephens and Volkov will be two of the wingers needed (on league minimum-type deals), and then Verhaege will likely be the other roster player. Then Conacher/whoever will rotate as our extras. We may be limited to two healthy scratches instead of three, but generally we'll be fine.

I'm not saying no move has to be made - maybe we buyout the last year of Coburn or something like that, but no big moves are going to need to happen.

 

[FinnLightning26]

I don't think we can afford to lose Sergachev if he continues to play like this. He's taken a huge step forward this season.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Hedman is the best PP dman in the league. So not until he stops being that.

He'd be the #1 PP option from the point for probably a full half of the teams in the league right now - just unfortunate to be behind Hedman. That's fine though - he makes our PP2 more threatening than most teams.

Agreed. Sergachev could become an insane PP threat rather soon. His offensive acumen is just unreal on paper, getting more palpable every passing day. It's Hedman's ******* team though, and he's just terrific player in all situation. In the end, you can't give #1PP time to Sergy over Hedman, unless you want to create an unnecessary conflit in the locker-room.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I dont care what his analytics say. Hes been good so far this year.

Don't worry mate. Advanced stats have always supported Sergachev. It's just becoming a reality.

 

[LightningStrikes]

 

[Max McBolt]

I don't think that's accurate. We have 8 million with zero increase - let's assume 2m and we have a bit over 10m in cap space. McAvoy's contract created the ceiling for Sergachev, and Cirelli is going to look for significantly less than Point. So with 14.7m (assuming Killorn is moved for futures), we end up with those two taking probably ~7m of it. Not saying we won't have to make some additional moves, but that's manageable.

And thankfully Cernak has been keeping his price to re-sign down.

Cernak should never really be discussed on equal terms with Sergachev and Cirelli in terms of importance.

Which I am not implying that it is
what you are doing.

I am referencing to last year’s comments about having to make a potential decision between Cernak and Sergachev.
Regardless of their individual level of play last year, they have never truly been close in term of asset value and potential to this franchise.

Sergachev is the 2nd most valuable asset on the team on defense.
(He was also the 2nd most valuable asset on defense in the organisation last year too).

Stamkos
Kucherov
Point
Cirelli
Hedman
Sergachev
Vasilevskiy

Those 7 players in order of positions are the 7 most valuable assets of the Tampa Bay Lightning and should ne treated as such.
Roster building and cap management should reflect this reality.

Losing Sergachev should not be an option to consider and almost anything that can be done without after the other 6 cornerstones should be done to prevent that from happening.

The only option worth discussing in moving/losing Sergachev would be the addition of a more valuable asset than him to the team.

 

[Zwui21]

I don't think we can afford to lose Sergachev if he continues to play like this. He's taken a huge step forward this season.

The real question is if he’ll even be on the team after this season. Even if we manage to trade Killorn without taking any salary back, fitting both Cirelli and Sergachev under the cap is going to be next to impossible unless the cap rises significantly more than expected.

Cernak should never really be discussed on equal terms with Sergachev and Cirelli in terms of importance.

Which I am not implying that it is
what you are doing.

I am referencing to last year’s comments about having to make a potential decision between Cernak and Sergachev.
Regardless of their individual level of play last year, they have never truly been close in term of asset value and potential to this franchise.

Sergachev is the 2nd most valuable asset on the team on defense.
(He was also the 2nd most valuable asset on defense in the organisation last year too).

Stamkos
Kucherov
Point
Cirelli
Hedman
Sergachev
Vasilevskiy

Those 7 players in order of positions are the 7 most valuable assets of the Tampa Bay Lightning and should ne treated as such.
Roster building and cap management should reflect this reality.

Losing Sergachev should not be an option to consider and almost anything that can be done without after the other 6 cornerstones should be done to prevent that from happening.


The only option worth discussing in moving/losing Sergachev would be the addition of a more valuable asset than him to the team.

There is no way in hell that we lose Sergachev. Absolutely no chance.
Talented Dmen like him is what you pray for to get with your high end 1st round pick every single year. Getting a Dman that is an offensive threat, can (now) play physical too and is starting to play in all situations... not even Chiarelli would let him go.
Him and Cirelli are key pieces for the future of our franchise and JBB will do whatever he needs to do to keep them in Tampa. Trade Killorn? Do if it's needed to keep Sergy and Cirelli, do it. No questions asked. Ask Coburn to waive his NTC clause for his final year? ("Listen bud, if you stay here you won't get any playtime because our top-6 is set. I Can trade you here and you'll play your 15 mins a night") Do it.
Even though, after JBB's statements in a recent interview, where he praised Killorn not only for his on ice effort but also for being one of the guys that stepped it up in the locker room in term of leadership, I think the madman will try to do whatever he can in order to resign Cirelli, Sergy, Cernak AND keep Killer.
Ask Johnson to waive his NTC? Do it.
Give Cirelli or Sergy a shorter 2 years bridge, in order to have a lower cap hit, so that they'll be up to re-sign when both Palat and Johnson's NTC will become a M-NTC? Do it.
Whatever it needs to be done, do it.
As Max McBolt said, just keep the "Stamkos, Kuch, Point, Cirelli, Heddy, Sergy, Vasy" list intact. Funny enough, if you add Cernak and Cal Foote to the list you'll have what our "Seattle Expansion draft protected list" will look like IMO.

It seems like something that will be impossible, but if someone can work something out of this situation is our front office.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

The real question is if he’ll even be on the team after this season. Even if we manage to trade Killorn without taking any salary back, fitting both Cirelli and Sergachev under the cap is going to be next to impossible unless the cap rises significantly more than expected.

Honestly, we could probably get a Miller-like return for Killorn with how well he's been playing this season. I have fully come around on him since he signed that contract, which looks like a steal right now.

 

[EXTRAS]

How injured is that hand?

 

[Zwui21]

How injured is that hand?

Good question. We don't have any updates as of now

 

[AndreRoy]

There is no way in hell that we lose Sergachev. Absolutely no chance.
Talented Dmen like him is what you pray for to get with your high end 1st round pick every single year. Getting a Dman that is an offensive threat, can (now) play physical too and is starting to play in all situations... not even Chiarelli would let him go.
Him and Cirelli are key pieces for the future of our franchise and JBB will do whatever he needs to do to keep them in Tampa. Trade Killorn? Do if it's needed to keep Sergy and Cirelli, do it. No questions asked. Ask Coburn to waive his NTC clause for his final year? ("Listen bud, if you stay here you won't get any playtime because our top-6 is set. I Can trade you here and you'll play your 15 mins a night") Do it.
Even though, after JBB's statements in a recent interview, where he praised Killorn not only for his on ice effort but also for being one of the guys that stepped it up in the locker room in term of leadership, I think the madman will try to do whatever he can in order to resign Cirelli, Sergy, Cernak AND keep Killer.
Ask Johnson to waive his NTC? Do it.
Give Cirelli or Sergy a shorter 2 years bridge, in order to have a lower cap hit, so that they'll be up to re-sign when both Palat and Johnson's NTC will become a M-NTC? Do it.
Whatever it needs to be done, do it.
As Max McBolt said, just keep the "Stamkos, Kuch, Point, Cirelli, Heddy, Sergy, Vasy" list intact. Funny enough, if you add Cernak and Cal Foote to the list you'll have what our "Seattle Expansion draft protected list" will look like IMO.

It seems like something that will be impossible, but if someone can work something out of this situation is our front office.

I agree we can’t afford to lose Serg. In fact I was one of the few people on this forum making that case last season. The problem is keeping both him and Cirelli will be exceedingly difficult unless they both agree to take less than they could get elsewhere. As I’ve said for a while if forced to choose between them we have to take Serg, as we at least have the center depth to compensate for the loss of Cirelli, but that would still be a significant loss indeed.

Yzerman and BriseBois painted themselves into a corner with all the full NTCs they handed out like candy, particularly to complementary players who weren’t worth it. BriseBois compounded the problem both by giving Gourde that contract and by not trading him this summer when he had the chance. Julien has his work cut out for him trying to save two young players we really cannot afford to lose.

 

[Zwui21]

I agree we can’t afford to lose Serg. In fact I was one of the few people on this forum making that case last season. The problem is keeping both him and Cirelli will be exceedingly difficult unless they both agree to take less than they could get elsewhere. As I’ve said for a while if forced to choose between them we have to take Serg, as we at least have the center depth to compensate for the loss of Cirelli, but that would still be a significant loss indeed.

Yzerman and BriseBois painted themselves into a corner with all the full NTCs they handed out like candy, particularly to complementary players who weren’t worth it. BriseBois compounded the problem both by giving Gourde that contract and by not trading him this summer when he had the chance. Julien has his work cut out for him trying to save two young players we really cannot afford to lose.

To be honest I don't see a scenario where we lose one of Cirelli and Serg. If we really can't fit them both by making the money work without a major trade or if Johnson doesn't waive his NTC, we'll have enough money for both if we move Killorn. And JBB will definitely take Cirelli over Killer

 

[Zwui21]

I agree we can’t afford to lose Serg. In fact I was one of the few people on this forum making that case last season. The problem is keeping both him and Cirelli will be exceedingly difficult unless they both agree to take less than they could get elsewhere. As I’ve said for a while if forced to choose between them we have to take Serg, as we at least have the center depth to compensate for the loss of Cirelli, but that would still be a significant loss indeed.

Yzerman and BriseBois painted themselves into a corner with all the full NTCs they handed out like candy, particularly to complementary players who weren’t worth it. BriseBois compounded the problem both by giving Gourde that contract and by not trading him this summer when he had the chance. Julien has his work cut out for him trying to save two young players we really cannot afford to lose.

To be honest I don't see a scenario where we lose one of Cirelli and Serg. If we really can't fit them both by making the money work without a major trade or if Johnson doesn't waive his NTC, we'll have enough money for both if we move Killorn. And JBB will definitely take Cirelli over Killer

 

[AndreRoy]

To be honest I don't see a scenario where we lose one of Cirelli and Serg. If we really can't fit them both by making the money work without a major trade or if Johnson doesn't waive his NTC, we'll have enough money for both if we move Killorn. And JBB will definitely take Cirelli over Killer

Honestly I’m not so certain we’ll have the cap space to keep them both even by moving Killorn. Especially if Serg signs an offer sheet. Point did us a huge favor by taking a good deal less than he could have gotten elsewhere, and I could see Cirelli following suit, but I’m not so confident that Serg would leave money on the table to stay in Tampa.

I’d love to be wrong on this, however.

 

[Coopers Gum]

God, holy nut.

Lays out their star player, doesnt want to fight, gets forced to, lays him the f*** out, jacks up the opposing crowd, and is the catalyst for his team scoring 5 unanswered goals to win the game after being down 4-1.

God damn.

 

[DFC]

I think we'll figure out a way to keep Serg, Cirelli, and Cernak. Killorn is likely gone, but after the season he's having, we're gonna get really good value. Cernak will likely sign cheap. He's getting his feet under him now and is looking a lot better lately, and, if he's our #4, we're in really good shape. The other two will sign discount contracts, following Point's lead. After that JBB will have to get a bit creative, but I think Killorn will be the big loss. Well, Shattenkirk, but we can all see that one coming.

 

[DFC]

God, holy nut.

Lays out their star player, doesnt want to fight, gets forced to, lays him the **** out, jacks up the opposing crowd, and is the catalyst for his team scoring 5 unanswered goals to win the game after being down 4-1.

God damn.

Feels like a big moment for the season. More than just the game. Like an exclamation point on what Sergachev has become for the team.

 

[Coopers Gum]

Feels like a big moment for the season. More than just the game. Like an exclamation point on what Sergachev has become for the team.

For sure. I hesitate to term it a turning point because the future is obviously uncertain and we've been playing a lot better lately, but that was probably the biggest single "moment" this season.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Personally I would rather have him signed to a long extension instead of a short bridge deal, something like the Slavin deal.

Cirelli and Cernak can have bridge deals