Player Discussion: Mikhail Sergachev

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Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
15,745
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Tampa Bay
It's a fair point, but I see absolutely no development in his game. Right now he is a gross liability defensively in a way that Heddy never was at his age.

It's standard for a defenseman to see peaks and valleys in their development. He's getting more ice time and some tougher assignments, so its natural that he will have bumps. His D game is no where near as cerebral as his offensive game, eventually that will change
 
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SRQKiter

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Sep 26, 2018
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Sergachev isn't even old enough to drink in Tampa
Neither is Charlie McAvoy. Would you put McAvoy and Sergy at the same level of development? Not even close. I'll give Serg a bit of a pass because of the cultural barriers he's had to overcome - though by all accounts he has done so very well and very quickly - but Sergy was a higher overall draft pick and is the better skater of the two so something's not clicking in his head defensively because he's got the physical tools. Still, some guys take longer and nobody's giving up on him, but it would be pollyannaish - yes, it's a word - to not be concerned.
 
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DFC

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Neither is Charlie McAvoy. Would you put McAvoy and Sergy at the same level of development? Not even close. I'll give Serg a bit of a pass because of the cultural barriers he's had to overcome - though by all accounts he has done so very well and very quickly - but Sergy was a higher overall draft pick and is the better skater of the two so something's not clicking in his head defensively because he's got the physical tools. Still, some guys take longer and nobody's giving up on him, but it would be pollyannaish - yes, it's a word - to not be concerned.

We don't need him to be the best 20 year-old D in the world.

There's no reason to be concerned. The issues with Sergachev are issues of Right Now. He still has a massive physical skillset. He had hiccups last year. He'll continue to have hiccups maybe for a couple of more years yet. All it really means is we can't rush him into a top-4 role.
 

SRQKiter

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We don't need him to be the best 20 year-old D in the world.

There's no reason to be concerned. The issues with Sergachev are issues of Right Now. He still has a massive physical skillset. He had hiccups last year. He'll continue to have hiccups maybe for a couple of more years yet. All it really means is we can't rush him into a top-4 role.
Why don't we need him to be the best 20 year old D man? He was top ten pick in his draft year, as you have noted he has a massive physical skillset not to mention that he learned fluent English in about 4 months so he's no dummy. To me that suggests that his defensive lapses are less explainable. Anyway, yeah, there will always be hiccups but the way he plays defense is more than just mild synchronous diaphragmatic flutter.
 
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DFC

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Why don't we need him to be the best 20 year old D man? He was top ten pick in his draft year, as you have noted he has a massive physical skillset not to mention that he learned fluent English in about 4 months so he's no dummy. To me that suggests that his defensive lapses are less explainable. Anyway, yeah, there will always be hiccups but the way he plays defense is more than just mild synchronous diaphragmatic flutter.

Because it's not the end of the world if McAvoy ends up a better defenseman. Sergachev's going to be very good. I think maybe we have to pump the brakes on how excited we get when he has a good game or two though, and not expect that out of him every time out. Development isn't linear, across the board, particularly with defensemen. He'll be fine. It just might take a bit of patience.
 

Sky04

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Jan 8, 2009
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Because it's not the end of the world if McAvoy ends up a better defenseman. Sergachev's going to be very good. I think maybe we have to pump the brakes on how excited we get when he has a good game or two though, and not expect that out of him every time out. Development isn't linear, across the board, particularly with defensemen. He'll be fine. It just might take a bit of patience.

Going to be a short list of defenseman who are "good" because they won't be as good as McAvoy... :laugh:

This reminds of all those guys who passed Hedman in development in the first 4 years of his career. Remember when Myers blew Hedman away as rookies?
 
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Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
15,745
8,070
Tampa Bay
Neither is Charlie McAvoy. Would you put McAvoy and Sergy at the same level of development? Not even close. I'll give Serg a bit of a pass because of the cultural barriers he's had to overcome - though by all accounts he has done so very well and very quickly - but Sergy was a higher overall draft pick and is the better skater of the two so something's not clicking in his head defensively because he's got the physical tools. Still, some guys take longer and nobody's giving up on him, but it would be pollyannaish - yes, it's a word - to not be concerned.

They are two totally different types of defenseman. Sergachev is Sergachev, he has a lot more latent physical tools and offensive talent, McAvoy is by far the superior player in his own end, this was no secret from their draft year. We don't need to compare Sergy with other young D, no more than we need to compare Point with McDavid before being satisfied with his development.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
15,745
8,070
Tampa Bay
Why don't we need him to be the best 20 year old D man? He was top ten pick in his draft year, as you have noted he has a massive physical skillset not to mention that he learned fluent English in about 4 months so he's no dummy. To me that suggests that his defensive lapses are less explainable. Anyway, yeah, there will always be hiccups but the way he plays defense is more than just mild synchronous diaphragmatic flutter.

The standard which most experts go by is, defensemen can't be judged in their first 200 games, it takes them 2 and a half seasons to get acclimated.
 

Hoek

Legendary Poster A
May 12, 2003
11,382
8,703
Tampa, FL
It'd be one thing if he were struggling this badly AND also never showed any flashes last season. But cmon, the reason you're so disappointed right now is because his peaks last year were so damn high. We're slowly taking the training wheels off and he's still finding his balance as a result.
 
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SRQKiter

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Sep 26, 2018
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They are two totally different types of defenseman. Sergachev is Sergachev, he has a lot more latent physical tools and offensive talent, McAvoy is by far the superior player in his own end, this was no secret from their draft year. We don't need to compare Sergy with other young D, no more than we need to compare Point with McDavid before being satisfied with his development.
We all know about his physical tools, though I'm wondering what you find "latent" about them? They're not latent at all, they are right there for all to see. Superior skating and exceptional strength -particularly for his age - to name just two. What is lacking is his ability to take his very real, very apparent and very un-latent physical tools and meld them with a hockey sense that puts him in the right place at the right time defensively. That is his only latency, though I would call it a deficiency, and there is nothing physical about it. As for looking at relative ability, that is the only standard by which to assess things.
 
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DFC

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We all know about his physical tools, though I'm wondering what you find "latent" about them? They're not latent at all, they are right there for all to see. Superior skating and exceptional strength -particularly for his age - to name just two. What is lacking is his ability to take his very real, very apparent and very un-latent physical tools and meld them with a hockey sense that puts him in the right place at the right time defensively. That is his only latency, though I would call it a deficiency, and there is nothing physical about it. As for looking at relative ability, that is the only standard by which to assess things.

Yeah but, he's played fewer than 100 games. Just because other guys are ahead of the curve doesn't mean he's never going to get there. He was an offense-first D, always. It's gonna take a while for him to catch up to the other parts of the game. I think the only reason to be disappointed is if you expected him to be fully formed, at 20. He's likely never going to be much better than average defensively, but his offensive instincts should make him a pretty good #2 at some point. The idea that he's the next Victor Hedman has always been a little far-fetched, IMO.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
15,745
8,070
Tampa Bay
We all know about his physical tools, though I'm wondering what you find "latent" about them? They're not latent at all, they are right there for all to see. Superior skating and exceptional strength -particularly for his age - to name just two. What is lacking is his ability to take his very real, very apparent and very un-latent physical tools and meld them with a hockey sense that puts him in the right place at the right time defensively. That is his only latency, though I would call it a deficiency, and there is nothing physical about it. As for looking at relative ability, that is the only standard by which to assess things.

If think hairs are being split here. I'm calling his physical tools latent, because his cerebral game is bottlenecking him consistently using them. When he gets comfortable and the pace of the game slows down for him, his head will catch up and we can actually see him use his speed and size more often.

Same exact thing happened with Hedman. We didn't realize what a beast he was rushing the puck up the ice till he gained confidence doing it.
 
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LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,061
9,771
Holy overreaction! Somebody made a good point referring to Hedman vs. Myers back when. Some take longer than others. Some will reach elite level, others will barely stay at NHL level, others will disappear after a year or two. The kid is 20 years old and in his 2nd season with the big guys. On one of the most stacked teams and defenses in the entire league. After a deep playoff run and in consequence shortened off-season. He'll figure it out. Give him some time.
 

ronsatter

Registered User
Aug 30, 2018
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80
I think we should just make him a center. Let him use all of his skating, puck skills, size and strength up front. Wind him up and let him go! ;)
 

MagesticSSS

Registered User
Oct 30, 2018
11
0
Do you guys think Serg will bounce back and still come out with a 40 point season? Just got him on my team for a trade where I gained on C lose on D and wondering what he's worth. My cats are Goals 3, Assists 2, +/- 0.5, PPP 1, SOG 0.4, if it matters
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
15,745
8,070
Tampa Bay
Do you guys think Serg will bounce back and still come out with a 40 point season? Just got him on my team for a trade where I gained on C lose on D and wondering what he's worth. My cats are Goals 3, Assists 2, +/- 0.5, PPP 1, SOG 0.4, if it matters

That's a good bet, he's been on that pace ever since he went on the 2nd PP unit
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
15,745
8,070
Tampa Bay
Do you guys think Serg will bounce back and still come out with a 40 point season? Just got him on my team for a trade where I gained on C lose on D and wondering what he's worth. My cats are Goals 3, Assists 2, +/- 0.5, PPP 1, SOG 0.4, if it matters

That's a good bet, he's been on that pace ever since he went on the 2nd PP unit
 

MagesticSSS

Registered User
Oct 30, 2018
11
0
That's a good bet, he's been on that pace ever since he went on the 2nd PP unit

Alright cool, hopefully it works out then! Quickly though are any of the following FAs comparable to Serg?:

Lajoie, Jokiharju, Seabrook, Faulk, McDonagh, Lindholm, Keith, Dunn, Trouba, Vantanen, Chara, Ekblad, Muzzin, Manson
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
28,955
17,897
Keith will probably outscore Sergachev, Trouba's in a breakout year and Winnipeg has tons of offense. McDonagh looks like he could be back to 40+pts as well but he doesn't play on the PP.

Best bet is Keith?
 
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