Value of: Mikeal Backlund

[Samsquanch]

Flames fans have been overvaluing this guy for years now. And despite them trying to trade him and his contract now, I'm still getting a feeling that they actually want a good asset (or more) coming back.

Even the computers trade AI in NHL 2020 can smell the BS coming off of this request.

 

[Richard88]

He has his hardcore fans... I am not one. I would be content with Ryan / Gawdin as the Flames 3c / 4c. But the question stands for fans of other teams... what would you offer for him, if he could be talked into moving.

Backlund for 3 quarters
Young middle 6er rhs
B+ prospect
1st-3rd(depending on prospect)

What would Flames fans say about this?:

Backlund ($1m retained) for Compher + Timmins + 1st

That's a 25 year old RHS middle 6 forward, a young budding top 4 RHD (Calgary's biggest need), and a late 1st. Could also swap Timmins for Kaut if preferred.

I'm aware that Calgary owners aren't fond of retaining, but if Backlund were to be moved to a contender for the best possible return it would undoubtedly be required to make Backlund more cost-appropriate at 3C.

 

[FameFlame069]

What would Flames fans say about this?:

Backlund ($1m retained) for Compher + Timmins + 1st

That's a 25 year old RHS middle 6 forward, a young budding top 4 RHD (Calgary's biggest need), and a late 1st. Could also swap Timmins for Kaut if preferred.

I'm aware that Calgary owners aren't fond of retaining, but if Backlund were to be moved to a contender for the best possible return it would undoubtedly be required to make Backlund more cost-appropriate at 3C.

There's no way they're retaining, especially in a cap crushed pandemic, the owners have stated they won't retain on a player who doesn't play on the team, and i love how you brought up a year old post, I'm not sure about Compher, I'd have to Google him to know who he is/what hes doing/done, so with that being said i can't answer this until later on today.

 

[Richard88]

There's no way they're retaining, especially in a cap crushed pandemic, the owners have stated they won't retain on a player who doesn't play on the team, and i love how you brought up a year old post, I'm not sure about Compher, I'd have to Google him to know who he is/what hes doing/done, so with that being said i can't answer this until later on today.

Yeah the Calgary owners not retaining probably makes it a non-starter, as Avs can't really afford a $5.35m 3C.

I thought I'd use the old Backlund thread rather than start a new one, the subject-matter is identical after all.

 

[CraigsList]

What would Flames fans say about this?:

Backlund ($1m retained) for Compher + Timmins + 1st

That's a 25 year old RHS middle 6 forward, a young budding top 4 RHD (Calgary's biggest need), and a late 1st. Could also swap Timmins for Kaut if preferred.

I'm aware that Calgary owners aren't fond of retaining, but if Backlund were to be moved to a contender for the best possible return it would undoubtedly be required to make Backlund more cost-appropriate at 3C.

good luck having us retain when we are already taking on Compher’s trash contract. For goodness sakes, a quick search in your team’s forum and I see a thread that he’s garbage since he had signed his most recent contract.

we’re not retaining on Backlund.

 

[FameFlame069]

Yeah the Calgary owners not retaining probably makes it a non-starter, as Avs can't really afford a $5.35m 3C.

I thought I'd use the old Backlund thread rather than start a new one, the subject-matter is identical after all.

But Compher himself is 3.5M, if Calgary were to retain the 1M you suggested, we'd be losing cap space and getting the worse C back, let alone Backlunds great defensive side of the game... Timmins is an iffy player, i don't watch too many Avs games, how has he been since returning from that injury?
You guys would be getting the better all around player, who consistently scores 40-50 points and plays an excellent defensive game, its a good offer, better than the other offers that were in here, and im not saying it's bad you brought the thread up(as i am the OP), like i said "i love how you brought it up" not many people would look for older threads about a certain player to make an offer, usually just to start a pissing war lol but honestly i don't think Compher would improve this team, i like Timmins and the 1st, but Compher just isn't the right player I'd be looking for, he doesn't really score goals like i was aiming for

 

[Richard88]

But Compher himself is 3.5M, if Calgary were to retain the 1M you suggested, we'd be losing cap space and getting the worse C back, let alone Backlunds great defensive side of the game... Timmins is an iffy player, i don't watch too many Avs games, how has he been since returning from that injury?
You guys would be getting the better all around player, who consistently scores 40-50 points and plays an excellent defensive game, its a good offer, better than the other offers that were in here, and im not saying it's bad you brought the thread up(as i am the OP), like i said "i love how you brought it up" not many people would look for older threads about a certain player to make an offer, usually just to start a pissing war lol but honestly i don't think Compher would improve this team, i like Timmins and the 1st, but Compher just isn't the right player I'd be looking for, he doesn't really score goals like i was aiming for

Thanks for your reasoned response.

What would be your ask from Colorado for Backlund if you were putting together the trade from scratch?

 

[Mike Smith]

Thanks for your reasoned response.

What would be your ask from Colorado for Backlund if you were putting together the trade from scratch?

The larger question that needs to be asked first is where are the Flames going from here? My view is this core is not going to work and the cupboard and farm are running bare making a rebuild a long road. Given that, when would a reasonable window to turn the team into a contender be? 3-5 years? The team would need to move anybody who will not be a part of that timeline for whatever we can get in order to make it happen. If we take a bad contract but get a 1st and a decent prospect... it would be a short term loss for a possible long term gain vs holding onto a player that will be a liability in that window. My guess is Tre will never do this and the team is going to hell until Tre is gone... but for the owners to pull the trigger on Tre... another problem.

 

[McJedi]

What RW would you give up for Backlund?

JT Compher!!

 

[McJedi]

What would Flames fans say about this?:

Backlund ($1m retained) for Compher + Timmins + 1st

That's a 25 year old RHS middle 6 forward, a young budding top 4 RHD (Calgary's biggest need), and a late 1st. Could also swap Timmins for Kaut if preferred.

I'm aware that Calgary owners aren't fond of retaining, but if Backlund were to be moved to a contender for the best possible return it would undoubtedly be required to make Backlund more cost-appropriate at 3C.

That’s an over pay Richard. No thanks. Are you confusing Backlund for Lindholm?

 

[Richard88]

That’s an over pay Richard. No thanks. Are you confusing Backlund for Lindholm?

You're right, it probably is an overpay. I was just testing the waters with that proposal given that those 3 pieces are the ones that would fit the return mentioned by another posted (i.e. RHS forward, good prospect, and pick).

What would you offer for him? Assuming that there's some retention and that his play doesn't fall off a cliff it could be a decent solution for Colorado at 3C during their cup window, don't you agree?

 

[McJedi]

You're right, it probably is an overpay. I was just testing the waters with that proposal given that those 3 pieces are the ones that would fit the return mentioned by another posted (i.e. RHS forward, good prospect, and pick).

What would you offer for him? Assuming that there's some retention and that his play doesn't fall off a cliff it could be a decent solution for Colorado at 3C during their cup window, don't you agree?

no. His contract sucks for the Avs. A 3C making $5.3mm. He’s better suited to go to a team making that AAV with a top six role. Even with retention I don’t like it for Colorado. Another team will value what we don’t more highly. So I don’t see the fit at all. Especially for a first and Timmins.

Avs have better options that don’t come with the term this guy has left. Avs don’t need a long term solution for 3C. This is exactly where I’d go the Tampa route and sign ring chasers to the vet min on one year deals.

Avs have Jost as well. He’s needs to be back at C. He’s earned it. Damn that kid can kill penalties.

 

[Richard88]

no. His contract sucks for the Avs. A 3C making $5.3mm. He’s better suited to go to a team making that AAV with a top six role. Even with retention I don’t like it for Colorado. Another team will value what we don’t more highly. So I don’t see the fit at all. Especially for a first and Timmins.

Avs have better options that don’t come with the term this guy has left. Avs don’t need a long term solution for 3C. This is exactly where I’d go the Tampa route and sign ring chasers to the vet min on one year deals.

Avs have Jost as well. He’s needs to be back at C. He’s earned it. Damn that kid can kill penalties.

You don't think he'd be a viable 3C even at $4.35m or less?

I agree about going the Tampa route. Paying up for good but cheap 3rd liners could be the way to go. Jarnkrok at $2m x 2 (or $1m if you get retention) would be similar sort of value AS what Tampa got last year with Coleman and Goodrow.

The way I see it the Avs are in the same position Tampa were in last year, with a strong team but lacking a real good 3rd line. Tampa did what they had to do to fix that issue. In a similar vein now, Avs have a very strong lineup, but are missing a functional 3rd line. Adding a 3LW and 3C who can drive play would make this taem impossible to match up against.

Landeskog --- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------ Kadri ------- Saad
xxxxxxx --------- xxxxxxx ------ Donskoi
Nichuskin -- Jost/Bellemare -- Calvert

Guys who's teams look likely to be sellers and who could fit those roles well are:

3C: Bonino, Staal, Tierney, Granlund, Backlund
3LW: Iafallo, Jarnkrok

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I don’t trade Backlund unless it’s an overpayment. Personally I think he’s the guy you give the “C” to teach the next generation how to play if you go full rebuild. He plays the game the right way.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

no. His contract sucks for the Avs. A 3C making $5.3mm. He’s better suited to go to a team making that AAV with a top six role. Even with retention I don’t like it for Colorado. Another team will value what we don’t more highly. So I don’t see the fit at all. Especially for a first and Timmins.

Avs have better options that don’t come with the term this guy has left. Avs don’t need a long term solution for 3C. This is exactly where I’d go the Tampa route and sign ring chasers to the vet min on one year deals.

Avs have Jost as well. He’s needs to be back at C. He’s earned it. Damn that kid can kill penalties.

Backlund is not a 3rd center. He’s a high end 5 on 5 shutdown center. Those players hold extreme value in league circles.

look at the most recent home and home against your team. Game 1 Flames are home team, get the matchup. Backlund shuts down McDavidfor a goose egg. Game 2, Flames don’t get the matchup cause they are the away team and get torched for 5 points (obviously the PP was part of that last night too)

 

[McJedi]

Backlund is not a 3rd center. He’s a high end 5 on 5 shutdown center. Those players hold extreme value in league circles.

look at the most recent home and home against your team. Game 1 Flames are home team, get the matchup. Backlund shuts down McDavidfor a goose egg. Game 2, Flames don’t get the matchup cause they are the away team and get torched for 5 points (obviously the PP was part of that last night too)

Backlund is a 3C for the Avs. He’s a 2C on most other teams. I don’t like the deal for the Avs but I sure could see another team value this player higher than the Avs should. He’s the opposite of the type of player the Avs should overpay for.

 

[McJedi]

You don't think he'd be a viable 3C even at $4.35m or less?

I agree about going the Tampa route. Paying up for good but cheap 3rd liners could be the way to go. Jarnkrok at $2m x 2 (or $1m if you get retention) would be similar sort of value AS what Tampa got last year with Coleman and Goodrow.

The way I see it the Avs are in the same position Tampa were in last year, with a strong team but lacking a real good 3rd line. Tampa did what they had to do to fix that issue. In a similar vein now, Avs have a very strong lineup, but are missing a functional 3rd line. Adding a 3LW and 3C who can drive play would make this taem impossible to match up against.

Landeskog --- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------ Kadri ------- Saad
xxxxxxx --------- xxxxxxx ------ Donskoi
Nichuskin -- Jost/Bellemare -- Calvert

Guys who's teams look likely to be sellers and who could fit those roles well are:

3C: Bonino, Staal, Tierney, Granlund, Backlund
3LW: Iafallo, Jarnkrok

you’re wasting a perfectly viable player in Jost making him a healthy scratch 4C. Play him at 3C and you’re fine. I’d play LOC at the wing too. You guys make 3C way over blown in terms of a need. This season the Avs have four losses mostly due to some awful games by Kadri and Saad. Our 3rd line has not hemorrhages goals at all. They just mostly kill ice time where a whole lot of nothing happens with JTC on the ice.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I don’t think Backs will be traded. Even if we rebuild, I want him around over Monahan to teach our youth.

However Jost and Nuke would peak my interest.

 

[Ogi1Kenobi]

If for some reason the Flames do not protect him in the expansion draft, I hope Seattle claims him. His contract is big, but he'd make a good 2C on an expansion team like the Kraken. I like his two-way play, and in a regular 82 game season, he has consistently put up 45+ points. Calgary should hold onto him. He's one of the better leaders in the locker room and I suspect he will get the captaincy once Gio's tenure in Calgary is over.

 

[Richard88]

you’re wasting a perfectly viable player in Jost making him a healthy scratch 4C. Play him at 3C and you’re fine. I’d play LOC at the wing too. You guys make 3C way over blown in terms of a need. This season the Avs have four losses mostly due to some awful games by Kadri and Saad. Our 3rd line has not hemorrhages goals at all. They just mostly kill ice time where a whole lot of nothing happens with JTC on the ice.

I disagree.

Jost has gotten numerous opportunities at 3C (and 2C before that) but just doesn't have the separation speed for those roles. Last night he played 3C with Landeskog and Compher and that line did really badly in possession metrics. I wouldn't drop him out of a healthy lineup but would have Bellemare sit instead.

Jost would probably be fine as 3C for the regular season when we face mostly non-playoff teams the next 2 months, but against the likes of Tampa, Boston, Philadelphia, etc it would be imperative to have a strong 3rd line. Right now our 3rd line is almost non-existent, to the point that the 4th line is effectively the 3rd line in terms of deployment and ice time.

The problem with the 3rd line isn't the lack of goals against, it's the total lack of goals for. Apart from Donskoi (who scores 90% of his points on PP2 or the 2nd line) the rest of our bottom 6 forwards only have 6 points at 5v5 combined. That's a problem. And it was serious problem in the playoffs against Dallas.

 

[McJedi]

I disagree.

Jost has gotten numerous opportunities at 3C (and 2C before that) but just doesn't have the separation speed for those roles. Last night he played 3C with Landeskog and Compher and that line did really badly in possession metrics. I wouldn't drop him out of a healthy lineup but would have Bellemare sit instead.

Jost would probably be fine as 3C for the regular season when we face mostly non-playoff teams the next 2 months, but against the likes of Tampa, Boston, Philadelphia, etc it would be imperative to have a strong 3rd line. Right now our 3rd line is almost non-existent, to the point that the 4th line is effectively the 3rd line in terms of deployment and ice time.

The problem with the 3rd line isn't the lack of goals against, it's the total lack of goals for. Apart from Donskoi (who scores 90% of his points on PP2 or the 2nd line) the rest of our bottom 6 forwards only have 6 points at 5v5 combined. That's a problem. And it was serious problem in the playoffs against Dallas.

We don’t need a high scoring 3rd line When we have a loaded top six and several defenders that can score. The Avs are not winning or losing based on bottom six play nor the PK roles those guys play. Avs have an elite PK. So if these guys just play break even no goal hockey 5 vs 5, that’s A ok for the Avs since our top six should dominate.

we lost to Dallas because of injuries, crappy goaltending due to injuries and a awful PK, also due to injuries.

 

[Richard88]

We don’t need a high scoring 3rd line When we have a loaded top six and several defenders that can score. The Avs are not winning or losing based on bottom six play nor the PK roles those guys play. Avs have an elite PK. So if these guys just play break even no goal hockey 5 vs 5, that’s A ok for the Avs since our top six should dominate.

we lost to Dallas because of injuries, crappy goaltending due to injuries and a awful PK, also due to injuries.

You're right, the Avs don't necessarily need a high scoring 3rd line. However, they need better than Compher as 3C. He actually doesn't play break-even hockey at 5v5 judging by his advanced stats and the eye test, at least not when he's playing center. And when one of Kadri or Mackinnon get injured Compher can't adequately fill in in the top 6 because he just gets caved in possession as a center.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Flames fans have been overvaluing this guy for years now. And despite them trying to trade him and his contract now, I'm still getting a feeling that they actually want a good asset (or more) coming back.

Even the computers trade AI in NHL 2020 can smell the BS coming off of this request.

Lol I’m not his biggest fan but he’s a good player any way u slice it haha the guy plays against top competition and does well. The contract is meh but he’d definitely bring back a good asset lol. Just prob have to take some cap back

 

[RasmusAndersson]

What would Flames fans say about this?:

Backlund ($1m retained) for Compher + Timmins + 1st

That's a 25 year old RHS middle 6 forward, a young budding top 4 RHD (Calgary's biggest need), and a late 1st. Could also swap Timmins for Kaut if preferred.

I'm aware that Calgary owners aren't fond of retaining, but if Backlund were to be moved to a contender for the best possible return it would undoubtedly be required to make Backlund more cost-appropriate at 3C.

Honestly that’s a tempting offer. I would prefer to keep Backlund but I really like Timmins since his days in the OHL and he could very well be a legit top-4 RD. The retention might be a dealbreaker but damn I’d have to think long and hard about this if we continue to suck.

 

[McJedi]

You're right, the Avs don't necessarily need a high scoring 3rd line. However, they need better than Compher as 3C. He actually doesn't play break-even hockey at 5v5 judging by his advanced stats and the eye test, at least not when he's playing center. And when one of Kadri or Mackinnon get injured Compher can't adequately fill in in the top 6 because he just gets caved in possession as a center.

Yes. The Avs need better than JTC. But I’m fine with a reliable and adequate 3C. This team doesn’t NEED an elite 3C like Danault or Backlund. You’re trying too hard to fill a void that doesn’t exist. A top 3C is a luxury we can’t afford (in cap space or cost to acquire) nor is it needed.

I would say the significant development of Drew Helleson makes him, maybe not Timmins, the RHD we need to keep for the NHL role he’ll have. Which will be EJs replacement. What a draft the Avs had in 2019.