Mike Bossy's Goal Scoring Compared To Gretzky's

[GlitchMarner]

Of course Bossy is one of the most naturally talented goal scorers ever. However, I've heard that he's the greatest goal scorer ever and that he was a better goal scorer than Gretzky, and I don't see much of a case for either statement.



Both Gretzky and Bossy had nine seasons of at least 50 goals and each of them had five seasons of at least 60 goals. However, Gretzky scored 70 or more four times whereas Bossy never hit the 70 goal mark.

Bossy's 60-69 goal seasons:

69 goals in 80 GP in 1979
68 goals in 79 GP in 1981
64 goals in 80 GP in 1982
61 goals in 80 GP in 1986
60 goals in 79 GP in 1983

During these seasons of 60 or more goals, MB only missed two games and he never hit the 70 goal mark or paced for 70 goals in a season.

In the seasons where he scored at least 50 goals, he never paced for more than 61 goals in a season:

58 goals in 76 GP in 1985 (61 goal pace in 80 GP)
53 goals in 73 GP in 1978
51 goals in 75 GP in 1980
51 goals in 67 GP in 1984 (61 goal pace in 80 GP)

In Bossy's last season (age 30), he posted 38 goals in 63 games (a 48 goal pace). Gretzky had 40 goals in 64 games in 1988 (a 50 goal pace).

Gretzky also had seasons of 41, 40, 38 and 31 goals. Conceivably, Bossy could have made up ground on him as a goal scorer if he hadn't had a bad back, but Gretzky suffered a serious back injury himself in 1991 and was able to continue playing; and even if Bossy's goal scoring longevity had been better than Gretzky's if both had remained healthy longer than they did, it wouldn't have been easy for him to negate the gaps in their best goal scoring seasons.


It is quite clear if you look at his goal totals and paces that he never could have approached Gretzky's peak goal scoring output of 92 goals even with absolutely perfect health throughout his career (during any of the seasons in which he did play - I also believe it's unlikely that he would have done so if he had not been forced to retire). Gretzky also had seasons of 87, 73 and 71 goals.

This isn't necessarily to suggest that I think Gretzky is the greatest goal scorer ever: I don't really see any good argument that Bossy was a better goal scorer than Gretzky; therefore, if someone's goal scoring is being compared to Gretzky's and an argument is being made that it's better (say Hull's or Ovechkin's), I believe it should be taken as a given that if that player's goal scoring is better than Wayne's, it's also necessarily better/greater than Bossy's.

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[KoozNetsOff 92]

Furthermore, when their careers overlapped (79/80-86/87)

Bossy: 451 goals in 679 GP = 0.66 GPG
Gretzky: 543 goals in 632 GP = 0.86 GPG

So clearly Gretzky was better.


Rockets:
Ovechkin/Hull: 7
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Hull: 15
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Bossy: 3

I see a clear top 6 of OV, Hull, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Richard with the order basically coming down to preference. Bossy is in the 2nd tier imo with the likes of Bure, Selanne and Brett Hull.

 

[The Panther]

Furthermore, when their careers overlapped (79/80-86/87)

Bossy: 451 goals in 679 GP = 0.66 GPG
Gretzky: 543 goals in 632 GP = 0.86 GPG

So clearly Gretzky was better.


Rockets:
Ovechkin/Hull: 7
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Hull: 15
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Bossy: 3

I see a clear top 6 of OV, Hull, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Richard with the order basically coming down to preference. Bossy is in the 2nd tier imo with the likes of Bure, Selanne and Brett Hull.

Good post, but what about Phil Esposito?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Good post, but what about Phil Esposito?

He definitely has the accolades and stats, but I put him in the 2nd tier because although all of these legends played with great players, none of them had a Bobby Orr. So Espo loses a few pts for me. But I won't argue with anyone who wants to throw him in the conversation.

 

[The Panther]

He definitely has the accolades and stats, but I put him in the 2nd tier because although all of these legends played with great players, none of them had a Bobby Orr. So Espo loses a few pts for me. But I won't argue with anyone who wants to throw him in the conversation.

But surely you have to put him into your lists? Six times he was 1st in goals (six years in a row). Only Hull and Ovechkin have more in NHL history.

 

[ted2019]

Edmonton also played a fire wagon type of style, while the Islanders played a more structured system.

 

[Video Nasty]

This board is tough to read sometimes. Nowhere else do I see someone like Bossy get disrespected so much. Of course Bossy only has a couple of retroactive Rockets when he’s in the same league as Gretzky setting everything on fire. Doesn’t mean he’s not in the discussion as top 5 goal scorer. He’s way above players like Selanne and Brett Hull.

 

[Passchendaele]

This board is tough to read sometimes. Nowhere else do I see someone like Bossy get disrespected so much. Of course Bossy only has a couple of retroactive Rockets when he’s in the same league as Gretzky setting everything on fire. Doesn’t mean he’s not in the discussion as top 5 goal scorer. He’s way above players like Selanne and Brett Hull.

Intangibles and general team success aside, I'm not convinced Bossy is much better than prime Ilya Kovalchuk.

 

[Video Nasty]

Intangibles and general team success aside, I'm not convinced Bossy is much better than prime Ilya Kovalchuk.

Why not? I honestly don’t understand this opposing sentiment and I’m intrigued if you could take a moment at your leisure to tell me, seriously.

 

[The Panther]

Intangibles and general team success aside, I'm not convinced Bossy is much better than prime Ilya Kovalchuk.

Wait, what...? Now you took it too far.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I am a Bossy backer, despite not caring much for most of the era he played in...and he's been named a top-10 winger of all time by the collective twice in a row now...not sure where else he needs to go...

 

[Plural]

This board is tough to read sometimes. Nowhere else do I see someone like Bossy get disrespected so much. Of course Bossy only has a couple of retroactive Rockets when he’s in the same league as Gretzky setting everything on fire. Doesn’t mean he’s not in the discussion as top 5 goal scorer. He’s way above players like Selanne and Brett Hull.

He's obviously better than Brett or Selanne. Even as a goal-scorer I'd say he's above Brett (who is better than Selanne in that regard).

I probably don't have him as a legit contender for the 5th best/greatest goal-scorer ever. Ovechkin, Bobby Hull, Lemieux, Gretzky, Richard is my top-5.

 

[overpass]

Of course Bossy is one of the most naturally talented goal scorers ever. However, I've heard that he's the greatest goal scorer ever and that he was a better goal scorer than Gretzky, and I don't see much of a case for either statement.



Both Gretzky and Bossy had nine seasons of at least 50 goals and each of them had five seasons of at least 60 goals. However, Gretzky scored 70 or more four times whereas Bossy never hit the 70 goal mark.

Bossy's 60-69 goal seasons:

69 goals in 80 GP in 1979
68 goals in 79 GP in 1981
64 goals in 80 GP in 1982
61 goals in 80 GP in 1986
60 goals in 79 GP in 1983

During these seasons of 60 or more goals, MB only missed two games and he never hit the 70 goal mark or paced for 70 goals in a season.

In the seasons where he scored at least 50 goals, he never paced for more than 61 goals in a season:

58 goals in 76 GP in 1985 (61 goal pace in 80 GP)
53 goals in 73 GP in 1978
51 goals in 75 GP in 1980
51 goals in 67 GP in 1984 (61 goal pace in 80 GP)

In Bossy's last season (age 30), he posted 38 goals in 63 games (a 48 goal pace). Gretzky had 40 goals in 64 games in 1988 (a 50 goal pace).

Gretzky also had seasons of 41, 40, 38 and 31 goals. Conceivably, Bossy could have made up ground on him as a goal scorer if he hadn't had a bad back, but Gretzky suffered a serious back injury himself in 1991 and was able to continue playing; and even if Bossy's goal scoring longevity had been better than Gretzky's if both had remained healthy longer than they did, it wouldn't have been easy for him to negate the gaps in their best goal scoring seasons.


It is quite clear if you look at his goal totals and paces that he never could have approached Gretzky's peak goal scoring output of 92 goals even with absolutely perfect health throughout his career (during any of the seasons in which he did play - I also believe it's unlikely that he would have done so if he had not been forced to retire). Gretzky also had seasons of 87, 73 and 71 goals.

This isn't necessarily to suggest that I think Gretzky is the greatest goal scorer ever: I don't really see any good argument that Bossy was a better goal scorer than Gretzky; therefore, if someone's goal scoring is being compared to Gretzky's and an argument is being made that it's better (say Hull's or Ovechkin's), I believe it should be taken as a given that if that player's goal scoring is better than Wayne's, it's also necessarily better/greater than Bossy's.

The argument for Bossy over Gretzky as a goal scorer is simple. Gretzky was a better goal scorer in the early 1980s NHL regular season, but that was a down period for NHL quality of play, and with 16 of 21 teams making the playoffs, most of the games and goals really didn’t matter that much.

When you look at the games that mattered and were really competitive—playoff games and Canada Cup games—Bossy matched or exceeded Gretzky as a goal scorer.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Furthermore, when their careers overlapped (79/80-86/87)

Bossy: 451 goals in 679 GP = 0.66 GPG
Gretzky: 543 goals in 632 GP = 0.86 GPG

So clearly Gretzky was better.


Rockets:
Ovechkin/Hull: 7
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Hull: 15
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Bossy: 3

I see a clear top 6 of OV, Hull, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Richard with the order basically coming down to preference. Bossy is in the 2nd tier imo with the likes of Bure, Selanne and Brett Hull.

Yeah I really don’t know how some can call bossy the goat goalscorer when he was dominated in that department in his own era.

 

[TheEye]

The argument for Bossy over Gretzky as a goal scorer is simple. Gretzky was a better goal scorer in the early 1980s NHL regular season, but that was a down period for NHL quality of play, and with 16 of 21 teams making the playoffs, most of the games and goals really didn’t matter that much.

When you look at the games that mattered and were really competitive—playoff games and Canada Cup games—Bossy matched or exceeded Gretzky as a goal scorer.

That's some interesting mental gymnastics, also receiving the expected likes from olympic level commentators in that sport. It's practically framed as if Bossy wasn't also participating, in his prime nonetheless, during this alleged "down period for NHL quality of play". I guess Bossy felt so guilty about scoring too much that he decided to take his foot off the proverbial gas. We all know that professional level athletes aren't very competitive by nature, especially one that has little reservation about his expressing his disdain towards Gretzky and the Oilers dynasty over the years.

 

[GlitchMarner]

That's some interesting mental gymnastics, also receiving the expected likes from olympic level commentators in that sport. It's practically framed as if Bossy wasn't also participating, in his prime nonetheless, during this alleged "down period for NHL quality of play". I guess Bossy felt so guilty about scoring too much that he decided to take his foot off the proverbial gas. We all know that professional level athletes aren't very competitive by nature, especially one that has little reservation about his expressing his disdain towards Gretzky and the Oilers dynasty over the years.

What has Bossy said about Gretzky and the Oilers? Haven't heard about this.

 

[The Panther]

What has Bossy said about Gretzky and the Oilers? Haven't heard about this.

In '81, after Edmonton eliminated Montreal, Gretzky said, "We beat the best team in hockey!" The Islanders, defending champs at the time, took this as a personal insult.

Some years ago, in an interview, someone said something to Gretzky about 'what if you'd played with Bossy on your wing?', etc., and Gretzky, as is his wont, said something like, "It would have been amazing", etc. Then this comment was put to Bossy shortly after, and he said something like, "I already played with the best center (Trottier), so why do I need Gretzky?" (or words to that effect).

Generally, Bossy is kind of a prickly guy when it comes to talking about Gretzky or the Oilers' dynasty starting off the back of the Isles'. He's also just kind of an outside-the-box guy when it comes to interviews and such. Not really the poster-boy for "generic, happy-go-lucky PR-friendly interviews".

 

[Howie Hodge]

Intangibles and general team success aside, I'm not convinced Bossy is much better than prime Ilya Kovalchuk.

Then I doubt you saw Bossy play.

Simple as that.

 

[Sentinel]

Furthermore, when their careers overlapped (79/80-86/87)

Bossy: 451 goals in 679 GP = 0.66 GPG
Gretzky: 543 goals in 632 GP = 0.86 GPG

So clearly Gretzky was better.


Rockets:
Ovechkin/Hull: 7
Gretzky/Howe/Richard: 5
Lemieux: 3
Bossy: 2

GPG wins:
Ovechkin/Hull: 8
Lemieux: 6
Richard: 5
Gretzky/Howe: 3
Bossy: 1

Combined:
Ovechkin/Hull: 15
Richard: 10
Lemieux: 9
Gretzky/Howe: 8
Bossy: 3

I see a clear top 6 of OV, Hull, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Richard with the order basically coming down to preference. Bossy is in the 2nd tier imo with the likes of Bure, Selanne and Brett Hull.

Why do you keep ignoring Esposito?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Because we watched these players play.

 

[Passchendaele]

Then I doubt you saw Bossy play.

Simple as that.

Bring Kovalchuk to the 80s and his numbers translate into more 50-goal seasons and a few 60-goal seasons.

Put Bryan Trottier as his center and see how he fares.

Like I said, I still give Bossy the edge because he was more effective as a playmaker and better in the playoffs, but when it comes to pure sniping ability, it's pretty close.

Kovalchuk is probably the 2nd best goal scorer of the 2000s, so I don't see anything wrong with this assessment.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Bring Kovalchuk to the 80s and his numbers translate into more 50-goal seasons and a few 60-goal seasons.

Put Bryan Trottier as his center and see how he fares.

Like I said, I still give Bossy the edge because he was more effective as a playmaker and better in the playoffs, but when it comes to pure sniping ability, it's pretty close.

Kovalchuk is probably the 2nd best goal scorer of the 2000s, so I don't see anything wrong with this assessment.

I hold Kovalchuk in high regard for what it's worth.

Bossy was a tier higher as a player.