... I think it's a fool's game to judge Dionne in particular as being "exceptionally poor" in the playoffs on the basis of just 49 games - a little over half an NHL season's worth of games. Not only that, but almost without exception, the teams Dionne played on were poor to average - and his play was the main reason those teams even scraped into the playoffs in the first place.
Mike Bossy overrated?
- Thread starter livewell68
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... I think it's a fool's game to judge Dionne in particular as being "exceptionally poor" in the playoffs on the basis of just 49 games - a little over half an NHL season's worth of games. Not only that, but almost without exception, the teams Dionne played on were poor to average - and his play was the main reason those teams even scraped into the playoffs in the first place.
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
Yeah. I used another example, but then changed it and forgot to change that part. My point was that number of Stanley Cups is not necessarily a good indicator regarding greatness of individual players. If they were, guys like Bourque would have more cups.
(Edit: I have corrected it now)
Janson
fireSNOW
So you do realize that Bossy accomplished all this in less than 10 NHL Seasons before he retired at 30? Jagr has had been playing pro for 20+ years. Ridiculous to complain about his teams that are not good enough to win Cups when he had over 10 more chances to win. Bossy had better teams, no argument there, however he elevated the players around him. How many cups did Potvin and Trottier win before Bossy showed up? Jagr great player but not at Bossy's level.
BraveCanadian
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How is Jagr not at Bossy's level - I mean besides cup counting?
All there is to go on is playoffs. And you've just admitted yourself that those teams were better than the ones Jagr had the opportunity to play with.
Killion
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I get confused too. Not sure if its latent Dyslexia, early Senility, or this particularly tasty Cabernet Sauvignon Ive been enjoying. No matter. Stay Calm, Carry On....
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Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
Why is this subject UP for discussion?. 5.0. Out of 20 IMO. Mike Bossy I faced. No BIG DEAL.
...and that in English means...?
Players facing away from the net can shield their deflections better and also if they are facing the net the defender can get in the way or intercept the shot/pass easier. It's not an every situation or play type of thing either but the game has changed quite a bit, when i was a kid cycling was something I did with my buddies now it's been commonplace for quite a few years in the NHL.
The NHL changes they used to be a rover in hockey then they added a forward pass ect..
It has never been about the number of players on the ice but their ability both in terms of team play and system and skill levels to do so
Killion
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You just had to respond to that post before I'd sobered up & had a chance to erase it huh?.
I think I was visualizing Bossy high in the slot where he did the most damage. He had an incredibly quick release & was deadly accurate, taking less than a nano second to size up the goalies positioning, openings & weaknesses. He didnt "fall" for any "tricks" either, as in baiting a sniper with a raised & open trapper or daylight through the 5 hole. No, that SOB would just fool you all to pieces. If you saw the puck the second it left the blade of his stick, because you wouldnt see it in flight, you could stop him. What was nasty though was his curling the puck on the blade just before he shot which caused the puck to actually dip below its ascendant path. Truly evil..
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Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
You just had to respond to that post before I'd sobered up & had a chance to erase it huh?.
I think I was visualizing Bossy high in the slot where he did the most damage. He had an incredibly quick release & was deadly accurate, taking less than a nano second to size up the goalies positioning, openings & weaknesses. He didnt "fall" for any "tricks" either, as in baiting a sniper with a raised & open trapper or daylight through the 5 hole. No, that SOB would just fool you all to pieces. If you saw the puck the second it left the blade of his stick, because you wouldnt see it in flight, you could stop him. What was nasty though was his curling the puck on the blade just before he shot which caused the puck to actually dip bellow its ascendant path. Truly evil..
Hahahaha...it all seems so much clearer now and yeah, Bossy could make the puck do funny things.
Gretzky could too, his slap shot would hit the puck square and produce little rotation making the puck dip and dive yet he was deadly accurate with it.
As a goalie, you did not like getting hit by players who shot the puck with less spin. It was like dead weight trying to go through you, not spin off you.
It was a heavier shot.
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Killion
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Like Mark Napier. That guys' shot was so heavy it cost a couple of generations of goaltenders permanent nerve damage, paralysis, involuntary muscle spasms' leading people to think your a member of the Aryan Brotherhood with one armed sieg Heils, and good luck ordering that corned beef on rye down at Schwartz's; the recurring nightmare of standing buck naked in an empty arena with that SOB winding up in the slot, waking up drenched in sweat just as the pucks about to hit you right between the eyes.
......
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Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
Like Mark Napier. That guys' shot was so heavy it cost a couple of generations of goaltenders permanent nerve damage, paralysis, involuntary muscle spasms' leading people to think your an Aryan Racist with one armed sieg Heils; the recurring nightmare of standing buck naked in an empty arena with that SOB winding up in the slot, waking up drenched in sweat just as the pucks about to hit you right between the eyes.
Yeah, I used to play against a guy that had an off foot snap shot like that and his favourite spot was the 5-hole. I had sooo many friggin bruises on my inner thighs from that guy and that **** stings like hell for days.
I was like dude, can't you go glove or blocker for just one week heh.
Killion
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It sure does. I had an old goalie coach who had played in the AHL, IHL, EHL etc back in the 40's & 50's whose career was ended when a puck, in warm-up, ricocheted off of both knees. Back then as you know, pads were shorter & usually worn with the top straps loose sans knee pads. Bossy (along with Bobby Hull & several others) would let one go head high early in the game just to like, you know, wake you up?.
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
It sure does. I had an old goalie coach who had played in the AHL, IHL, EHL etc back in the 40's & 50's whose career was ended when a puck, in warm-up, ricocheted off of both knees. Back then as you know, pads were shorter & usually worn with the top straps loose sans knee pads. Bossy (along with Bobby Hull & several others) would let one go head high early in the game just to like, you know, wake you up?.
By the time I hit an age where guys could raise the puck with real authority, we had great protection including special goalie cages.
We weren't allowed to wear the new half and half masks everyone wears today, they weren't approved for a few years.
Anyway, these special cages didn't have the screwed in ties at the top of the cage, they were over to the sides with short rivets instead.
I saw a couple of guys over the years get those screws slightly and once, not so slightly, drilled into their foreheads.
This is exactly what I wore before we could use the half and half's. Mine was black though....
Killion
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I grew up in the 60's & we used the molded fiberglass jobs'. Bobby Hull's & Stan Makitas' Banana Curves' (since outlawed thank God) & the slapshot was all the rage. 7-14yr olds pretty much scaring the Beegesus out of the Goalie and anyone sitting end-rink. Fortunately most of their shots could generally be seen with a goodly percentage being head to 15' high & wide. That cage style wasnt available until the 70's unfortunately, as it wouldve been extremely nice to have had them at the earlier stage in terms of the development of the slapshot. Interesting factoid about those rivets'; thats gotta hurt.... The other weakness in goalie equipment back then was the arm pads; basically just quilted cotton with flimsy foam inserts.
Note; Interesting to see the neck guard. There was a goalie by the name of Crouch who got his jugular ripped open while playing for the Markham Waxers back in 73 and nearly died right there & then. His dad developed a turtleneck dealeo' with padding which then morphed into the suspended neck guard you used.... but back to Bossy. Shame his career ended a bit early due to back problems.
Note; Interesting to see the neck guard. There was a goalie by the name of Crouch who got his jugular ripped open while playing for the Markham Waxers back in 73 and nearly died right there & then. His dad developed a turtleneck dealeo' with padding which then morphed into the suspended neck guard you used.... but back to Bossy. Shame his career ended a bit early due to back problems.
Jarick
Doing Nothing
I've got nothing to add other than you guys talking about puck spin and goalies is fascinating. Might have to slap some baby powder on one of my sticks before the game tonight and see what happens.
He has 85 goals in 129 playoff games. He is third all time behind Lemeiux and Ovechkin in goals per game (postseason) and Ovy has played almost 100 less playoff games.
Killion
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Gretzky used friction tape & then applied Baby Powder, while others applied wax, as in furniture polish, while others still preferred cloth tape. Todays legal limit for a curve is 3/4" max, but "back in the day", you had guys with 2-3" curves on their blades. If you havent tried it, give er' a whirl. Take a blow torch (and dont burn the house down) to a woody or whatever & bend away, stick the blade under a door or use your foot, then run cold water on it to freeze the curve in place. What that does to a puck in flight is truly something to behold. Just dont get caught using it in a game situation.
