Mike Babcock

Syckle78

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Nov 5, 2011
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What I'm saying, though, is that I don't think this is a fault of Babcock's. He didn't go out and sign all of these vet forwards, and we know from the past that he's wanted kids like Smith up only to be overruled by management. And if this is what Babcock is given, he's got to put someone on the ice.

Complaining about Cleary getting 16 minutes a night, well, what else is Babcock going to do? It's who he's got, and he's got to go with what he has.

Oh I agree completely. All he can do is play the hand that Holland dealt him. I gotta imagine Babs is getting a little frustrated like the rest of us. I don't imagine this was the roster he envisioned having at the end of last year.
 

BinCookin

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Feb 15, 2012
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Oh I agree completely. All he can do is play the hand that Holland dealt him. I gotta imagine Babs is getting a little frustrated like the rest of us. I don't imagine this was the roster he envisioned having at the end of last year.

I think he is cleary plenty of ice time so that Holland can see exactly how bad he is and not because his play is bad due to "limited chances" (low ice time)

I.E. he wants to get cleary fired.
 

HTT3*

Guest
but that the way he has handled his top 9 over the years, in reality, has left us with a multitude of reliable under skilled guys and no skilled creative guys are left to be found.

He had no problem playing Hossa on the top 6. The problem is people expect Hossa type players to be available to Ken Holland year in, year out at a HUGE discount.

I don't think people are realistic considering the CBA has made it impossible for UFA impact to become available. When they do, they get severely overpaid... to the point it hurts the hockey club. Parise and Suter are perfect examples of overpayment, especially with the cap going down.

As for Hudler, I never liked him, majority of Red Wings' fans despised him. He was the official whipping boy the past two years. Suddenly now these same people want him back and/or are blaming Holland for "not getting it done" when that midget isn't what this team needs.

Samuelsson hasn't even had the chance to play and people already despise him. I think people forget that sammy is a clutch guy in the playoffs and has size. He's a RH shooter and will significantly help the PP.

In terms of replacing Hudler, I think that guy is Brunner, not Sammy.
 

Ricelund

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That would blow my mind if true.

Hudler had far too much trouble getting a consistent role in the lineup for me to believe that.

I don't think the idea is that Babcock prefers guys like Cleary/Bertuzzi/Samuelsson in his top 6 as opposed to some hypothetical player, but that the way he has handled his top 9 over the years, in reality, has left us with a multitude of reliable under skilled guys and no skilled creative guys are left to be found.
You're blaming Babcock for Holland not acquiring top-six talent via UFA or trade in the past four years. That doesn't make sense.

Is it Babcock's fault that Holland let Hossa walk in favor of "depth" guys like Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, et al? Is it Babcock's fault that Holland let San Jose go out and acquire Brent Burns when the Wings had just lost Rafalski and Lidstrom was getting ready to call it a career? How about a fourth rounder for Ehrhoff's rights? I guess a first for Quincey made more sense.

Hudler didn't work here because he couldn't skate and he was undersized. Babcock has no problem playing Brunner (who is looking like a totally adequate replacement) in the top six… because he can skate.

I mean, it's almost comical at this point. You can look at the list of UFAs and be 99% sure that Holland won't sign anyone unless he's former Red Wing property or a "reclamation" project.
 
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SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
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That would blow my mind if true.

Hudler had far too much trouble getting a consistent role in the lineup for me to believe that.

Yeah, I agree. It's hard to believe that he was a guy Babcock wanted here when he was always in the doghouse.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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I think he is cleary plenty of ice time so that Holland can see exactly how bad he is and not because his play is bad due to "limited chances" (low ice time)

I.E. he wants to get cleary fired.

Honestly if Babs was doing this (he isn't) then I'd want him canned right away.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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The one healthy scratch the past 5 years?

Hudler was in his doghouse at different points. I think he liked what he did last year so it wouldn't surprise me if he would have taken him back. Babcock always liked Sammy quite a bit though and wanted Brunner. I don't think he misses Huds that much and if he was asked to pick two of those three, we would be exactly where we are in my opinion.

At the very least as an outsider he showed an interesting way of being a huge supporter of Hudler during his tenure with the Wings.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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I always thought people over-exaggerated Jiri and Babs' relationship.

Does Babcock have any say at all on the roster? I'm sure he's consulted KH a number of times but there relationship seems a bit odd.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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I originally questioned Babcock's quote about McCollum, as I thought it was way too harsh and blunt. But looks like he proved me wrong as McCollum played great tonight in GR.
 

sarcastro

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Jul 28, 2005
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Off the top of my head, these are the UFAs Detroit has gone for and missed out on in the past couple years:

- Fleischmann
- Jovanovski
- Upshall
- Salo
- Suter
- Parise

Two questions:

1. Did they go after Jovo and Upshall?

2. Is missing them in any way a bad thing, given the fact that they are abysmal players that are making at least 4 times what they should be?

Question 2 will be directed at Suter and Parise as well, when Minnesota is a perennial doormat for the next 15 years because those two millstone contracts are keeping them from icing a decent team.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Cleveland
Two questions:

1. Did they go after Jovo and Upshall?

2. Is missing them in any way a bad thing, given the fact that they are abysmal players that are making at least 4 times what they should be?

Question 2 will be directed at Suter and Parise as well, when Minnesota is a perennial doormat for the next 15 years because those two millstone contracts are keeping them from icing a decent team.

I'm 100% positive I've read about them being interested in Upshall but got outbid in a big way by Florida. Less sure about Jovo, but I want to say yes to him, too.

I could understand interest in Jovo, though I'd disagree with bringing him in. I never understood what they saw in Upshall.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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I'm 100% positive I've read about them being interested in Upshall but got outbid in a big way by Florida. Less sure about Jovo, but I want to say yes to him, too.

I could understand interest in Jovo, though I'd disagree with bringing him in. I never understood what they saw in Upshall.

He is a far sight more effective than guys like Miller, Cleary, Abby, Emmerton, etc. Panthers backed up the brinks truck for him, though.
 

Ricelund

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Two questions:

1. Did they go after Jovo and Upshall?

2. Is missing them in any way a bad thing, given the fact that they are abysmal players that are making at least 4 times what they should be?

Question 2 will be directed at Suter and Parise as well, when Minnesota is a perennial doormat for the next 15 years because those two millstone contracts are keeping them from icing a decent team.
According to reports that summer, yes, they did go for Jovanovski and Upshall.

I'm not saying I wish they'd signed those guys, just that they went for them and were rejected.
 

pdd

Registered User
Feb 7, 2010
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Playing on the 3rd line isn't being in the dog house.

How about this one.

Beginning of March, 2011.

Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary had just played 11 games together. Hudler put up 14 points, Dats and Cleary each had 12.

Babcock decides he needs to get Franzen going and breaks up the line. He puts Hudler on the FOURTH line, so he has a spot to put Franzen.

What's that, you just scored at a rate that would win you the Art Ross in a full season? To the fourth line with you!
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
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Toronto
How about this one.

Beginning of March, 2011.

Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary had just played 11 games together. Hudler put up 14 points, Dats and Cleary each had 12.

Babcock decides he needs to get Franzen going and breaks up the line. He puts Hudler on the FOURTH line, so he has a spot to put Franzen.

What's that, you just scored at a rate that would win you the Art Ross in a full season? To the fourth line with you!

In fairness, that line's hot streak ended before it was broken up...They went 4 straight games with none of them registering an even strength point and were a combined -7.

Putting Hudler on the 4th line was ridiculous though.
 

JmanWingsFan

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Aug 18, 2011
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He is a far sight more effective than guys like Miller, Cleary, Abby, Emmerton, etc. Panthers backed up the brinks truck for him, though.

The problem was that due to the cap floor, the Panthers were essentially forced to back up the brinks truck on all of those guys. I don't think all 29 other GMs in the league would have offered anyone of those guys the money they got.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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He is a far sight more effective than guys like Miller, Cleary, Abby, Emmerton, etc. Panthers backed up the brinks truck for him, though.

I'm not sure he'd be that much of an upgrade. He doesn't PK, he doesn't produce a lot of points, and he doesn't seem to eat up much ES IT, either. He's moderately physical - around 100 hits a year, give or take a few - but he's also always injured. He seems like a guy we'd dislike as much as anyone else we're not thrilled with right now.

Unless it's someone like Tootoo, who brings some obvious qualities to the table, I'm just not a fan of fishing for bottom6 guys in free agency any more. Instead of going after Upshall, we should have been trying to land a true top6 guy and push other guys down the lineup. Agree about the Panthers overpaying in a big way, though.
 

JPE123

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
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I originally questioned Babcock's quote about McCollum, as I thought it was way too harsh and blunt. But looks like he proved me wrong as McCollum played great tonight in GR.

I think it was poorly worded too but I think McCollum needs to play and sitting on the bench isn't going to help him. I actually hope they play Mrazek tonight. Howard has been mediocre this year IMHO and someone else pushing him can't hurt
 

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