Speculation: Mike Babcock fired by the Leafs, should we take him back?

Should we take Babcock back?

  • Yes - fire Blashill and bring Babcock back at this season, if Babcock gets fired

    Votes: 33 11.7%
  • Yes - keep Blashill for rest of the contract and bring Babcock back later, starting at 2021

    Votes: 14 4.9%
  • No - keep Blashill for rest of the contract, and make coaching change at 2021

    Votes: 118 41.7%
  • No - fire Blashill and bring in some other coach.

    Votes: 118 41.7%

  • Total voters
    283
  • Poll closed .

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,121
7,485
Bellingham, WA
Remember tie goes to the veterans, and he knows most of them, whereas he is not familiar with the younger kids.

Abby, Helm, LGD, Flip, Green, and DDK will get too much TOI at the expense of BLM, Hronek, AA, Fabbri, and Cholo.

Babcock is not a good fit for the team regardless of whether or not he's a good coach.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,862
6,940
nah

I mean i'd take him over Blashill if those were my only two options but that's pretty much the lowest bar possible
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,735
14,704
Sweden
Why, so he can try to turn Cholowski into a shut down stay at home defensman? Or do we want to see Larkin hamstrung with gator and Helm? Maybe we want to see Glendening average the highest TOI on the team?
Man, god forbid anyone try to get Cholowski to play tighther defense. The rest is nonsense. Blashill has been much worse about handing out icetime to young players than Babcock ever was. Blash frickin' lets youngsters play 6-7 minutes frequently. I don't know why he is completely excused for things like that, despite also often overplaying the same 'realgud' veterans that Babcock did.. heck probably the worst part about Blashill is that he's like the diet version of Babcock. Talks the same way, coaches the same way, just much, much worse at everything.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
He's gotten zero playoff series wins out of some young, stacked Leafs teams.
Are they even in playoff position right now? Haven't they had a decently easy schedule so far?

Oof.

It's interesting, when somebody's success is never anybody's credit.
I mean... there's absolutely zero dispute that Z/D/L were incredible, hall of fame level players. You just do it by elimination. If Babcock did well with those guys on his team, but doesn't do as well when he doesn't have as much talent, it seems like talent plays a big role in how "effective" he is as a coach. He's got one of the most stacked forward rosters in the league right now and they're a bubble team.

I give Babcock credit for his ability to get the most of of his players, but also his inability to get the most out of his players. I think he does get them to play their best hockey for the most part. Maybe one of the best coaches in the league for that. But he doesn't get the most out of them because of his insistence on rolling lines and PP units and overplaying grinder types. You have one of the elite goalscorers in the game, several incredible playmakers, and he's *young* and you don't ride him hard to win a playoff series? Come on, Babs.

It was a complaint I had with Babs (and Blash too, frankly). Other teams let guys like Ovie stay out the full 2 minutes. They know that's a winning strategy. We would load up Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and pull em after 1 minute unless they were at that exact moment setting up a clinic in the offensive zone. And then if there was a faceoff with 10 seconds in the PP in the o-zone, it would be our grinders out there to take it because we can't take a chance having our PP unit out there when it goes to 5on5. He can ride his best players more and he doesn't.
 

Tirekicker

Registered User
Dec 30, 2017
159
95
Are they even in playoff position right now? Haven't they had a decently easy schedule so far?

Oof.

I'm not sure about the strength of their schedule thus far. As for where they are in the standings...

NHL Hockey Standings

"Oof" is right.

I think they're really missing Kadri. Dude is a legit shutdown centerman.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,121
7,485
Bellingham, WA
I'd like to see us bring in Jiri Fischer or Lidstrom behind the bench. Then some dude that's stuck in hockey history.
Lidstrom as an assistant coach would be pretty epic, not sure he's ready to be head coach right off the bat.

Defensive system is a major issue right now, it's not just the personnel. Chasing the puck carrier is not a system.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,131
26,425
Lidstrom as an assistant coach would be pretty epic, not sure he's ready to be head coach right off the bat.

Defensive system is a major issue right now, it's not just the personnel. Chasing the puck carrier is not a system.
I always wonder about coaching for someone like The Perfect Human (see: Gretzky). It sometimes hard to convey "just make the right play every single time, isn't it obvious?!"

I think he could be super valuable in his game preparation though. Being a pro-athlete. Lidstrom had a well-thought out routine for everything.
 
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Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,121
7,485
Bellingham, WA
I always wonder about coaching for someone like The Perfect Human (see: Gretzky). It sometimes hard to convey "just make the right play every single time, isn't it obvious?!"

I think he could be super valuable in his game preparation though. Being a pro-athlete. Lidstrom had a well-thought out routine for everything.
I just retired from training ski instructors, so I get what you mean but...

Lidstrom was a very celebral player, not just playing with natural talent, so I'd think he'd make a great assistant coach. Babcock wanted him:

Nicklas Lidstrom turned down Red Wings coaching offer
 
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Tirekicker

Registered User
Dec 30, 2017
159
95
I give Babcock credit for his ability to get the most of of his players, but also his inability to get the most out of his players.

I feel the same way.

I think of Babcock as sort of a MacGyver-esque life hack ninja; if his team is an underdog in a playoff series, he can jury-rig a fix for some seemingly insurmountable deficiencies and his troops will manage to put the fear of God into the opposition. (We'll treat the 2014 Bruins series as an outlier.) However, his team will likely lose the series, likely in seven games. See: 2003 (ANA-NJD, 7 games), 2013 (DET-CHI, 7 games), 2015 (DET-TBL, 7 games), 2017 (TOR-WSH, 6 games), 2018 (TOR-BOS, 7 games), 2019 (TOR-BOS, 7 games).

If his team is a powerhouse...hope for the best, expect bitter disappointment.

So, either way, whether his team is middling or menacing, your season probably will end in tears. And not the good kind of tears.
 

TheRatPoisoner

Registered User
Feb 23, 2015
2,796
239
While I think he's an upgrade over Blashill, wouldn't like the idea of bringing him back still.

We had 10 years of Babcock. We had 20 years of Holland. Time for something different.
 
Last edited:

Red Stanley

Registered User
Apr 25, 2015
2,414
778
USA
I pretty much agree with all the cons listed here so far. If we're really building for speed, skill and youth, it makes no sense to hire Babcock. He loves his veterans and his system is more suited for a team like the Blues, who like to grind and play heavy north-south hockey. It's a good system *if* your roster already has the right mix of players who are willing to buy into it right away and have immediate and sustained success. He will absolutely not be the right man for the job if the job requires the creativity and constant reevaluation/adjustment that comes with a young rebuilding roster. That's not to say Blashill has been great, but it's harder to evaluate his performance due to the mess we've been in throughout his tenure here. I voted to keep him until we have more pieces in place and see how he does with them. Still curious about the coaching style that was advertised and had people excited prior to his hiring. On the other hand, not going to lose any sleep if he's canned tomorrow. Just stay away from Mike Freaking Babcock, please.
 

saska sault

Registered User
Jun 5, 2010
3,691
2,821
Sault Ste. Marie
Won one Stanley cup with a litter of Hall Of Farmer's... For the most part solid coach, but probably should have at least one more banner hanging from his time here... Left as soon things went downhill, really wanted no part of rebuilding with youth and has shown so far he hasn't been able to get a supremely talented Toronto squad motivated to get over the hump. Doubt there is mutual interest, if there was Stevie Y says no thanks. Much more likely he would persue Cooper over Babcock, which I don't think he will do either.
 

GBFP

Registered User
Sep 24, 2009
4,737
438
I think Babcock will be successful at his next stop, provided he wants one. But it shouldn't be here. Toronto is a crazy situation, and Dubas built a silly top heavy team rather than balancing the team out - also made it harder to coach with all those "stars" wanting theirs.

Babcock, like Bowman, needs a total buy-in from his captain and team on-ice leadership to work. Anything less and it will be a gong show.

GM should ship out some of the stars to put the rest of team on notice that Babcock is there to stay.
 
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Kronwalled55

Detroit vs. Everybody
Jan 7, 2011
6,914
897
Atlanta, GA
I’m going to vote no, but it’s close.

I think Babcock is a better coach than Blashill. But I think Blashill is a better fit for this rebuilding team than Babcock is. I feel like guys like Nielsen would be getting top line minutes under Babs right now.

I don’t fault Babcock for Toronto’s playoff demises. Boston happens to be a nightmare matchup for the Leafs. Detroit has met their share of kryptonite teams over the years as well.
 

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