Mike “Strech Pass” Babcock

[RLF]

That's clearly not a zone entry goal.

Ok fine. I'm not going to nitpick this stuff. So, remove faceoffs in the data. That leaves almost 87% for entries where they had original possession by either carrying it in or dumping it in and almost 2% from a turnover. So 87-89% are from zone entries. Would that be a majority?

 

[ryno23]

here is the problem with the system. We only have 2 good D at doing the stretch pass on a consistent basis. Reilly and Dermott they both can do it. The whole right side has no puck moving ability and they just fire the puck up the ice without any regard which turns into a turnover.

This D would look alot better if they scrapped that stupid stretch pass. Simple 10 foot passes to the C or W and breakout with speed. If teams trap it up then you at have speed going thru the NZ where you can dump it in and chase with speed. Now they dump and nobody has any speed going into the zone to retentive pucks

Give the D a short option to the C in your own zone. The bruins especially the bergeron line does it so well and gets going the other way with speed.

Simple correction of the system would make this team way better and the D probably better

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Lets go Babs, prove me wrong!

**ive been overly critical of Babs these last few weeks, but he is a damn good coach. Hopefully he’s willing to adapt/make changes, still rooting for this guy!

 

[freewilly]

One Stanley Cup ring, two Stanley Cup Final losses and two Olympic Gold Medals.

I'm definitely too far on the "fire babcock" side, but this argument is a joke. The Olympic golds? With that roster? A Canada "B" team wouldve been a gold medal favorite, and in case you forget he needed OT and the iggy-Crosby moment to win the first time, and more Sid heroics against Sweden the second time.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

I'm definitely too far on the "fire babcock" side, but this argument is a joke. The Olympic golds? With that roster? A Canada "B" team wouldve been a gold medal favorite, and in case you forget he needed OT and the iggy-Crosby moment to win the first time, and more Sid heroics against Sweden the second time.

It's a hilarious argument. If he ever gets his 3rd Olympic gold then his top 3 centers will be McDavid-Crosby-MacKinnon. Pretty much a joke when it comes to the coach getting credit.

 

[Bluelines]

It's a hilarious argument. If he ever gets his 3rd Olympic gold then his top 3 centers will be McDavid-Crosby-MacKinnon. Pretty much a joke when it comes to the coach getting credit.

I loved how he purposefully coaches the team to OT so Sid could score that golden goal, suggesting that that tournament was a cake walk for Canada would suggest that you didn't watch that tournament.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

I loved how he purposefully coaches the team to OT so Sid could score that golden goal, suggesting that that tournament was a cake walk for Canada would suggest that you didn't watch that tournament.

Both Olympics he has the top forward and defense group in the world not to mention the best goalie in 2014. I mean of course there is going to be tough competition especially when you play against a goalie standing on their head but I'd feel pretty safe in saying most of the Canadian NHL coaches would have won as well. The talent gap has been closed a lot but Babs deserves barely any credit for the Olympics.

 

[Bluelines]

here is the problem with the system. We only have 2 good D at doing the stretch pass on a consistent basis. Reilly and Dermott they both can do it. The whole right side has no puck moving ability and they just fire the puck up the ice without any regard which turns into a turnover.

This D would look alot better if they scrapped that stupid stretch pass. Simple 10 foot passes to the C or W and breakout with speed. If teams trap it up then you at have speed going thru the NZ where you can dump it in and chase with speed. Now they dump and nobody has any speed going into the zone to retentive pucks

Give the D a short option to the C in your own zone. The bruins especially the bergeron line does it so well and gets going the other way with speed.

Simple correction of the system would make this team way better and the D probably better

I guess you can look at it another way too, if our defence is force to make stretch passes that means they probably don't have an option in their own zone. IMO when teams loaded with players who are gifted offensivly start to struggle, offensive players gravitate towards he zone where they typically have success the opponents defensive zone. This has become known as blowing the defensive zone. Watch the game tonight and count how many times the d-man has a outlet in his own end before he chooses to a stretch pass.

I also think our D is taking too long to make decisions on where to outlet the pass to, which if you already have forwards blowing the zone, further exacerbates the problem.

-We have Washington tonight with our #1 goalie in nets and they had a game last night they lost 7-6 in OT, they should be easy pickings. 4-2 Washington wins ...

 

[Bluelines]

Both Olympics he has the top forward and defense group in the world not to mention the best goalie in 2014. I mean of course there is going to be tough competition especially when you play against a goalie standing on their head but I'd feel pretty safe in saying most of the Canadian NHL coaches would have won as well. The talent gap has been closed a lot but Babs deserves barely any credit for the Olympics.

Of course, so obvious now you point it out, his job is to put all the names into a Bingo roller and randomly pick out names and then sit back and crack open a frosty brew.

Objectively go back an look at the box scores or watch the highlights and tell me that Canada just steamrolled through that tournament. That was an extremely competitive tournament, any one of Finland, Sweden, USA, Canada, Russia could have won that tournament.

In the round robin, there was Sweden who had 2 goals against in 3 games, USA who had 5 GA in 3 games, Finland 4 GA. Canada 7 GA. To suggest that Babcock as a coach had an easy go of it or had no influence on the Gold, is simply a poster who is short cutting logic and claiming a truth "because he says so".

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Of course, so obvious now you point it out, his job is to put all the names into a Bingo roller and randomly pick out names and then sit back and crack open a frosty brew.

Objectively go back an look at the box scores or watch the highlights and tell me that Canada just steamrolled through that tournament. That was an extremely competitive tournament, any one of Finland, Sweden, USA, Canada, Russia could have won that tournament.

In the round robin, there was Sweden who had 2 goals against in 3 games, USA who had 5 GA in 3 games, Finland 4 GA. Canada 7 GA. To suggest that Babcock as a coach had an easy go of it or had no influence on the Gold, is simply a poster who is short cutting logic and claiming a truth "because he says so".

I'm very glad that Babcock getting the best players in the world to dump and chase has you believing that he is a top coach. You're a top coach when you take a team and use it to it's absolute strengths and then teach and show improvements on weaknesses. Babs handicaps our offense - our strength - in favour of defense. However, we're still terrible at defense as a team but the only thing is that we have Freddy. And was Canada trailing at any point in the tournaments? Maybe by 1 in like one game but still. Most if not all of the Canadian coaches in the NHL at the time would have won the gold.

 

[Not My Tempo]

I hate the stretch pass, but I think it’s the best system we can use considering what’s on the back end. I don’t trust any of Hainsey, Zaitsev or Oz to make quick, clean, short tape to tape passes. I don’t trust any of Hainsey, Zaitsev or Oz to skate the puck out of our zone and through the neutral zone.

That being said, I think Babcocks biggest fault is not changing the game plan up when it clearly isn’t working. For example we’ll play a team and get a couple odd man rushes due to the stretch pass. The other team will adjust and keep more players back as a result. Great! Now our Dmen have room to skate it out...wait what? Why are we still using the stretch pass?

 

[GoonieFace]

I'm very glad that Babcock getting the best players in the world to dump and chase has you believing that he is a top coach. You're a top coach when you take a team and use it to it's absolute strengths and then teach and show improvements on weaknesses. Babs handicaps our offense - our strength - in favour of defense. However, we're still terrible at defense as a team but the only thing is that we have Freddy. And was Canada trailing at any point in the tournaments? Maybe by 1 in like one game but still. Most if not all of the Canadian coaches in the NHL at the time would have won the gold.

You mean like he did in Anaheim?

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

You mean like he did in Anaheim?

Are you really gonna stick to an argument that in 2007, a much more physical and slow time in the league, a team that was build with huge skilled players was successful with a coach that specializes in physical play? Best coaches adapt to the team. I've honestly yet to see him do it to the Leafs and all he's trying to do is make is more physical and defensively responsible instead of letting our horses run. Who's our prime Perry/Getslaf? It's not Matthews or Tavares I'll tell you that much.

 

[Bomber0104]

Are you really gonna stick to an argument that in 2007, a much more physical and slow time in the league, a team that was build with huge skilled players was successful with a coach that specializes in physical play? Best coaches adapt to the team. I've honestly yet to see him do it to the Leafs and all he's trying to do is make is more physical and defensively responsible instead of letting our horses run. Who's our prime Perry/Getslaf? It's not Matthews or Tavares I'll tell you that much.

What specific system do you not like and how would you change it?

Everyone tosses around these generalized criticisms but ALWAYS stop short of explaining what specifically is wrong with any of the systems the Leafs employ.

Clearly you seem to know something about coaching so I`m looking forward to your suggestions.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Flames fan here, just wanted to toss in my two cents on the stretch pass

in 2014-15 and 2015-16 the stretch pass was our go-to play on the breakout. We were a very fun team. When the skilled defensemen - Giordano, Brodie, Wideman, and Hamilton threw a 150 foot prayer up the ice it usually worked. Where we got into trouble was that some of our other defensemen could not execute the stretch pass - Kris Russell, Deryk Engelland, Ladislav Smid, Jyrki Jokkipakka. Wideman has his issues with containing zone entries and generally skating but the stretch pass hid those issues.

When we changed coaches from Hartley to Gulutzan we predominantly removed the stretch pass from our breakouts and it really made the likes of Engelland and co better. In fact no one benefitted more than Engelland from the change because now centers had to swing back and support. There were some positives out of this era but ultimately we became an unwatchable hockey team. The short pass made us outright predictable. But the biggest problem is that it took away our team's biggest strength - TJ Brodie in particular the most obvious loss but even Giordano couldn't put his stamp on games. Our 5 man offense became a 5 man breakout and a 3 man offense. It caused more lazy penalties kn the forecheck, more turnovers on the cycle, and less of a dynamic offense overall.

The addition of Bill Peters brought back the stretch pass. It wasn't a cure-all panacea, but our current D-core of Giordano/Brodie/Hanifin/Hamonic/Kylington/Andersson are all capable of creating space for themselves to make a good breakout play - we have the puck moving D core Hartley never got to have. I believe in the stretch pass over the 5-10 foot breakout pass. It allows defensemen to put their mark on a game.

Do we sometimes run into trouble when teams try to shut the stretch pass down? Yes, we do. Sometimes we have to revert to 5 man breakouts just to keep the opponent honest. But to play that style you really need skilled forecheckers and puck carriers.

As an outsider looking in I don't think the problem is the Leafs' inability to adjust to the stretch pass being cut off, I think it's that your D core still needs some refining. You've got those one or two weak links that make it unviable to use as a system - as we did in the days of Deryk Engelland.

Hockey is still a simple game - win your battles, win your races, complete your passes. If the stretch passes are not being completed it is on the players not the system.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

What specific system do you not like and how would you change it?

Everyone tosses around these generalized criticisms but ALWAYS stop short of explaining what specifically is wrong with any of the systems the Leafs employ.

Throw a forward down deep on a breakout instead of having 2 higher than the circle and 1 at the opposing teams blue line. A short pass would work wonders for a team with so much speed. Stop forcing small players to dump the puck into a corner as opposed to making a play around a much slower player. Stop blue-balling willy with this 3rd line stuff and give him a legitimate shot (more than 1 period at a time) to get going. And also for the love of god STOP STOP STOP playing both Zaitsev and Hainsey 20+ especially Hainsey. I'm not sure how to break down a system that I have no inside knowledge of but he does so many things with the leafs that bother me. If people are trying to make an argument that he's a top flight coach or Olympic level coach then I disagree. He's far too old school and it's painful because the leafs are built for the new style of hockey. Hyman constantly getting 18-20 mins a night and Willy getting ~13 is a perfect example of that and I refuse to hear that it's because he's slumping.

 

[GoonieFace]

Are you really gonna stick to an argument that in 2007, a much more physical and slow time in the league, a team that was build with huge skilled players was successful with a coach that specializes in physical play? Best coaches adapt to the team. I've honestly yet to see him do it to the Leafs and all he's trying to do is make is more physical and defensively responsible instead of letting our horses run. Who's our prime Perry/Getslaf? It's not Matthews or Tavares I'll tell you that much.

It was actually 2003, and he took a rag tag bunch to the finals. He still got the best out of a team, regardless of when it was. You do realize you cant run and gun your way to the Stanley Cup.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

It was actually 2003, and he took a rag tag bunch to the finals. He still got the best out of a team, regardless of when it was. You do realize you cant run and gun your way to the Stanley Cup.

Literally googled the year and forgot at the same time. Either was 2003 is a much different year than 2019 and shouldn't be played in a similar style. You've got the 2nd most explosive offense in the league and he's handcuffing them and I have no idea why anyone would do that. It's like putting a speed limit of 100KM on a bugatti.

 

[Dreakmur]

Throw a forward down deep on a breakout instead of having 2 higher than the circle and 1 at the opposing teams blue line. A short pass would work wonders for a team with so much speed.

Agreed. Short passes work great!

Stop forcing small players to dump the puck into a corner as opposed to making a play around a much slower player.

Depends on the situation. If the defenseman has a good gap, you're better putting the puck behind him. If he gives you space, take it and make a play.

Stop blue-balling willy with this 3rd line stuff and give him a legitimate shot (more than 1 period at a time) to get going.

Nah, make Nylander earn his ice time, just like everyone else.

And also for the love of god STOP STOP STOP playing both Zaitsev and Hainsey 20+ especially Hainsey.

Those two guys are 3rd and 4th in TOI per game. They are 3rd and 4th in even strength TOI per game. They are 1st and 2nd in short-handed TOI per game. Neither guy plays on the PP.

The reason they play so much is because the Leafs take way more penalties than they draw.

I'm not sure how to break down a system that I have no inside knowledge of but he does so many things with the leafs that bother me. If people are trying to make an argument that he's a top flight coach or Olympic level coach then I disagree.

Every coach will do something that you disagree with. There is no perfect coach, and there is no perfect way to coach.

I've been coaching for 20 years, and I used to think I could develop the perfect system. Each year, I would evaluate and identify the holes. The next year, I would fix that. In fixing on hole, I inevitably opened up a new one. Even if I could find a solution to both holes, the system was too complex for the players to execute.

Basically, coaching isn't about finding a perfect solution, but simply about finding the best one.

He's far too old school and it's painful because the leafs are built for the new style of hockey.

Babcock is actually a very progressive coach.

His demands on the players have remained consistent - work hard, be consistent, be professional, etc. His approach to preparation and analytics and systems have changed a lot over time.

Hyman constantly getting 18-20 mins a night and Willy getting ~13 is a perfect example of that and I refuse to hear that it's because he's slumping.

Babcock is still in teacher mode. He wants the young core to develop the parts of their game that will lead to championships. If Willy worked and competed as hard as Hyman, he would play more than him.

 

[Bomber0104]

Throw a forward down deep on a breakout instead of having 2 higher than the circle and 1 at the opposing teams blue line. A short pass would work wonders for a team with so much speed. Stop forcing small players to dump the puck into a corner as opposed to making a play around a much slower player. Stop blue-balling willy with this 3rd line stuff and give him a legitimate shot (more than 1 period at a time) to get going. And also for the love of god STOP STOP STOP playing both Zaitsev and Hainsey 20+ especially Hainsey. I'm not sure how to break down a system that I have no inside knowledge of but he does so many things with the leafs that bother me. If people are trying to make an argument that he's a top flight coach or Olympic level coach then I disagree. He's far too old school and it's painful because the leafs are built for the new style of hockey. Hyman constantly getting 18-20 mins a night and Willy getting ~13 is a perfect example of that and I refuse to hear that it's because he's slumping.

So you don't know what's wrong with Babcock's systems, coaching or how to explain it... yet it just bothers you.

Got it.

Glad we cleared that up.

 

[GoonieFace]

Literally googled the year and forgot at the same time. Either was 2003 is a much different year than 2019 and shouldn't be played in a similar style. You've got the 2nd most explosive offense in the league and he's handcuffing them and I have no idea why anyone would do that. It's like putting a speed limit of 100KM on a bugatti.

I dont think handcuffing them is the correct term. I think we all forget that this is still a young and inexperienced team. I think Babcock wants to make sure these guys play the right way, and when it comes to playoffs, you cant play run and gun hockey. The stretch pass works, but realistically they do not have the dman of executing it on a regular basis. Maybe in part Babcock wants to force Dubas to make a change back there to add for a lack of a better term "better" defencemen. Alot of the Leafs forwards also like to cheat and perhaps having them back in their own zone for those short passes will hinder them even more. I do not pretend to know what system works best, but I do know they do not have the horses to go deep in the playoffs. Like it or not, I still think you need a handful of "heavy" players or at least a group that will play heavy. I think they are lacking in that department.

 

[Bluelines]

I'm very glad that Babcock getting the best players in the world to dump and chase has you believing that he is a top coach. You're a top coach when you take a team and use it to it's absolute strengths and then teach and show improvements on weaknesses. Babs handicaps our offense - our strength - in favour of defense. However, we're still terrible at defense as a team but the only thing is that we have Freddy. And was Canada trailing at any point in the tournaments? Maybe by 1 in like one game but still. Most if not all of the Canadian coaches in the NHL at the time would have won the gold.

Your attitude is certainly dismissive of the talent that the Canadians faced at that tournament. Sweden had a top four defence that would be a top 2 on any NHL team.

Were a terrible defensive team? We rank tied for 6th in the league in GA, seems like we are doing OK in that category eh?

That dump and chase has our team ranked tied for fourth in GF and this is with the leagues least PP opportunities, that is not an inconsequential fact.

4th Fourth and 6th? For perspective, last year Washington was 9th in GF and 16th in GA. Last years Leafs were 4th in GF and 12th in GA. Kinda feels like someone is over reacting eh?

While Freddy is important to this team, he ranks 13th in GAA. Name me one elite team that does not rely on their goalie.

Maybe you need a broader perspective, try watching some other teams. Our Leafs are a great team, they have a great system, do they have some warts, sure every team but Tampa does.

Is Mike perfect, of course not, no one is. He is patient to a fault, he is loyal to a fault but that is what we need.

I know know, this team has the audacity to lose a game this year ,OMG!!!!, so that tells me it's time for all the chicken little's to start running around and blame Mike, blame Dubas, blame it on the rain but step back and take a look at the big picture, if someone told me that its my fault for having my team in 8th over all in the league with the 5th best point percentage, the 4th best offence, the 6th best defence and I did that with Austin Matthews out for a month, Andersen out for a month, Nyalnder gone all season, I'd say WTF are you bitc#ing and moaning about? I;d also say go have a beer and relax or find a friend and talk it out.

 

[PromisedLand]

With all the olympics talk I for one can guarantee you that there weren’t many “stretch passes”

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Wow, alot of great coaching tactics/strategies being presented in this thread. How come leaf fans can come up with better solutions and he cant?

 

[frog]

He's a complete moron who thinks he's a genius

Well shanahan, holland, hockey canada, john tavares, sidney crosby, hockey insiders, announcers, leafs upper management.... (shall i go on lol) think he is one of the best... I love that, out of all these guys you are the one that figured babcock out