Waived: Mikael Samuelsson

[Chip39]

I seem to remember Glendening having a better preseason too.

 

[Henkka]

I guess the question I have is what do you want your 4th line and 4th liners to do?

Glendening is a 4th liner type player, playing on the 4th line.

So is Callahan, but he has also potential to score goals in a net-front role. We are losing many veteran net-front guys in the off-season and need new guys to fit on that role. Franzen, Abdelkader Sheahan, Andersson, Callahan would be those guys at next season. Five options are needed, if one guy is missing.

Also there's a bigger need for Wingers at next season, because we have Datsyuk, Zeta, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson to put at center spot before Glendening. But Callahan fits in this picture pretty well as a natural winger.

There might be better options next year, but I don't really see a problem with him playing there. We started the year with a 4th line of spare parts, and then we moved in the direction (right direction) of actually playing grinders and guys with a 4th line skill set there. Instead of guys like Samuelsson who are soft and trash, or Cleary who is just a shell of himself and can't skate.

Glendening is right-handed. Skates well. Forechecks like crazy. Agitates. Competes and battles for loose puck. I mean those were all things we wanted on our 4th line at the beginning of the year.

So is Callahan, righthanded, forechecks, agitates, maybe fights, competes and battles, and he scores more. Big problem for Glendening has been he won't win faceoffs enough well. So I'd like to see that same physical element that Glendening brings with Callahan there + with a better centerman like Helm or Andersson.

I don't think he's only playing because he's from Michigan. I think he's playing because he has a good skill set for the 4th line, and we wanted to move in the direction of having a real 4th line.

Now I'm not saying necessarily I think he's in the long term plans, I think eventually out prospects coming up will make him expendable to be honest, but I don't mind him playing where he is this year really.

Glendening is a good fit to be a 15th-16th forward. Just like he has been at this season. We need those proven depth guys, there will injuries again at next season.

 

[newfy]

Everything that makes people like Glendening on the wings, Callahan has more of really. Hes quicker, at least as good on the PK and people saying Glendening plays like Maltby is hilarious. Hes does agitate and I like Glendening but hes more just a gritty guy. Callahan makes Glendening look fairly soft in all honestly. Much tougher and anoying to play against.

I think his scoring touch deserves a chance at the wings next year. I hope he gets a shot. If Nyquist can be waived to start a season cause hes waiver eligible, so can Glendening

 

[Frk It]

Everything that makes people like Glendening on the wings, Callahan has more of really. Hes quicker, at least as good on the PK and people saying Glendening plays like Maltby is hilarious. Hes does agitate and I like Glendening but hes more just a gritty guy. Callahan makes Glendening look fairly soft in all honestly. Much tougher and anoying to play against.

I think his scoring touch deserves a chance at the wings next year. I hope he gets a shot. If Nyquist can be waived to start a season cause hes waiver eligible, so can Glendening

Nyquist was never waived, he was buried so he wouldn't exceed his waiver exemption. Nyquist would have never passed through waivers.

Also I agree I want guys like Ferraro and Callahan to get a shot next year. I love both their skill sets.

I just think it's false that people say Glendening is only playing NOW and THIS year because he's local or from U of M. He's playing because he has a game that suits the 4th line well, and is better there than scrubs like Cleary and Sammy.

 

[jaster]

Yeah, it's a pretty much lock that even if we would have waiver-exempt Callahan and non-exempt Glendening, waivers will determine, that the exempt guy will go down. Because that's the only choise in good asset management. That way you keep both guys and other guy can be injury replacement. Win-win situation.

But in our situation, the player with even better toolbox (Callahan) is the non-exempt player, so i'ts 100% sure that if there will be decicion between Callahan and Glendening, the waiver-exempt Glendening is the guy who will go down. It's waste of time to even speculate with a different decision.

I can take bets against this thing. Just name the stake how high. jaster? anyone?

Not a topic I'm interested in betting on, since I'm not predicting definitively one way or another. I just think that people are making big assumptions in regards to Callahan (it's entirely possible he simply may not be deemed good enough to be on an NHL roster after next season's training camp). Glendening, meanwhile, has proven himself. Your point about waiver exemption is legit, but in order for Callahan, and this talk about waiver exempt vs non-waiver exempt, to be even relevant in the first place, is for Callahan to successfully make the transition to NHL hockey. He has to properly adjust to the biggest jump any hockey player can make. I sure hope he does it, but it's by no means a given, and I just think it's too soon for him to be automatically penciled into every conceivable lineup.

In other words, I'm not yet sold on Callahan being a sure-fire NHLer.

 

[jaster]

1) Callahan can't take the next step if he is not able to showcase himself in the NHL. So it's wrong to say Glendening has shown more than Callahan, he hasn't. Callahan is leading the team in goals (or was until this weekend) while playing on the 3rd or fourth line. He is a better skater and plays on the penalty kill. Callahan is also much grittier than Glendening which is an element this team is missing.

The first bolded sentence is entirely true. The second is not. Glendening has previously outplayed Callahan when they've been on the Griffins roster at the same time, both offensively and defensively. Glendening has simply shown more. The biggest ting in Callahan's favor is that he's two years younger, so the argument that he has more upside isn't a bad one.

Besides all that, the fact that Callahan hasn't gotten his NHL chance is not Glendening's fault. Glendening obviously showed that he was more NHL-ready than Callahan. It's why Glendening has been in Detroit the last several weeks and Callahan has not. That fact alone demonstrates my point.

2) Glendening and Callahan play two different games, and Glendening is not exactly played great, he's -7 and has 3 assists? He's a blue collar, lunch pail type of player but he is not gritty like Callahan.

They're not all that different. Glendening has been plenty gritty. Maybe more in the way of being a pest than hitting everything that moves, but both guys are 4th-liners at the NHL level who aren't expected to provide offense, while being responsible defensively and providing some form of an x-factor (Callahan with his hits and fighting and Glendening with his defense, backchecking, and pest nature).

'Great' is a subjective term, so debating it is pointless. Glendening hasn't provided much offense, but he's not being asked to. He's on the 4th line. Given that, his -7 means virtually nothing. Glendening has been very good defensively, and that's been obvious. You're going to be a minus player when you're on a 4th line that has little-to-no offensive capability. Callahan would be a minus player as well, anyone who doubts that should probably self-examine their bias.

 

[jaster]

If Luke Glendening is not a local product, had not gone to UofM as a walk-on he would not even have been signed by the Wings organization, much less in the NHL.

That is completely baseless speculation, especially given how well Glendening has played at the NCAA level, the AHL level, and now the NHL level. Sheer silliness.

He has done nothing to surpass Callahan at the AHL level

That is patently false. He was better than Callahan when both were in the A. Glendening played himself up to the NHL and then Callahan started finding the net. Good for him, but I'm sure Glendening doesn't care that he's not down in GR scoring more goals

and Callahan offers more at the NHL level.

And that is nothing more than subjective opinion. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but he hasn't done enough to earn a chance to show it one way or the other.

unfortunately for Callahan he did not have the good fortune of playing locally or at a local university

Glendening has yet to prove he can even score at the AHL level

Well, Glendening was a .5 ppg player last season, .67 ppg player in the playoffs as the 3rd-leading scorer on the team, and was a .67 ppg player in the A this season before his call-up. I don't think that's too bad for a guy not expected to produce offense. Callahan is scoring more now, but he's still an overall .33 ppg player in the A.

Do you think other NHL rosters give two thoughts about Glendening? I can tell you at the AHL level teams know and hate playing against Callahan.

That's great for Callahan in the AHL, but I'm certain NHL teams think no more of Callahan than they do Glendening.

 

[jaster]

So is Callahan, but he has also potential to score goals in a net-front role. We are losing many veteran net-front guys in the off-season and need new guys to fit on that role. Franzen, Abdelkader Sheahan, Andersson, Callahan would be those guys at next season. Five options are needed, if one guy is missing.

Also there's a bigger need for Wingers at next season, because we have Datsyuk, Zeta, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson to put at center spot before Glendening. But Callahan fits in this picture pretty well as a natural winger.

Glendening is a natural winger being asked to play center because he's capable. Babcock has said a couple times that eventually Glendening will be moved back to wing.

And sorry, but as much as I like Callahan, I don't see him filling a net-front role on the Wings. He's simply not good enough offensively to play on an offensive line with skill players, even with his improved goal-scoring numbers in the A.

Glendening is a good fit to be a 15th-16th forward. Just like he has been at this season. We need those proven depth guys, there will injuries again at next season.

Unfortunately for the Glendening detractors, Babcock sees Glendening as more than a 15th-16th guy

 

[jaster]

Everything that makes people like Glendening on the wings, Callahan has more of really. Hes quicker, at least as good on the PK and people saying Glendening plays like Maltby is hilarious. Hes does agitate and I like Glendening but hes more just a gritty guy. Callahan makes Glendening look fairly soft in all honestly. Much tougher and anoying to play against.

I like Callahan, but the amount he is over-rated on these boards is getting to the point of frustration. He's no quicker than Glendening, isn't as good of an overall skater, and he is not as good defensively or on the PK. As for the Maltby comparison, you just said yourself that Glendening agitates. That's why the comparison exists.

 

[FlashyG]

I like Callahan, but the amount he is over-rated on these boards is getting to the point of frustration. He's no quicker than Glendening, isn't as good of an overall skater, and he is not as good defensively or on the PK. As for the Maltby comparison, you just said yourself that Glendening agitates. That's why the comparison exists.

I agree.

Personally I think most of Callahan's fans like him more than Glendening because he fights

 

[newfy]

I like Callahan, but the amount he is over-rated on these boards is getting to the point of frustration. He's no quicker than Glendening, isn't as good of an overall skater, and he is not as good defensively or on the PK. As for the Maltby comparison, you just said yourself that Glendening agitates. That's why the comparison exists.

I've watched enough of both to say that Callahan is just as good of a skater as Glendening. As a winger, hes the most trusted defensively in GR I would say, theyre both very solid defensively and both really good on the PK. Callahan is also 2 years younger than Glendening. Its dumb to argue about whose faster or better defensively at this point, theyre both very comparable to each other. However I was just laughing about the fact that people compare Glendening to Maltby. He does agitate but if thats why so many people like him than people will like Callahan much more. He provides more toughness and grit, and comparable defensive value. its too early to say more offense but Callahan is showing quite a bit from mostly bottom lines this year.

I dont want to call you biased because of UM, Im a UM guy as well but that might partially be it. Glendening was not as impressive last year in the AHL as Callahan has been this season and there is still a year of difference there.

I also dont think Callahan is for sure better at the NHL level. I just dont want to see him waived when Glendening can just be sent down. If Callahan shows he deserves to stay than they should keep him up. If Nyquist can get sent down so can Glendening, this year Callahan has shown he deserves a shot at the big club. Glendening hasnt been so great that hes worth losing a pretty solid young player over.

 

[jaster]

I've watched enough of both to say that Callahan is just as good of a skater as Glendening. As a winger, hes the most trusted defensively in GR I would say, theyre both very solid defensively and both really good on the PK. Callahan is also 2 years younger than Glendening. Its dumb to argue about whose faster or better defensively at this point, theyre both very comparable to each other. However I was just laughing about the fact that people compare Glendening to Maltby. He does agitate but if thats why so many people like him than people will like Callahan much more. He provides more toughness and grit, and comparable defensive value. its too early to say more offense but Callahan is showing quite a bit from mostly bottom lines this year.

Like any prospect, I hope Callahan wildly succeeds. There are of course certain aspects of prospects I, like everyone, am biased against; in my case it's namely poor skating/conditioning and/or low compete level. Callahan isn't saddled with either of those things, so I truly hold nothing against him. I hope he gets his chance at the NHL level and runs with it, like the handful of prospects we've seen so far this year.

With Glendening, I do appreciate his agitating style, but I like him for the sum of everything he provides. I see him as very responsible, excellent defensively, a good forechecker, a beast backchecker, high compete level, good leader, and has a tenacity about him; and while he's a natural winger, he's versatile enough to play up the middle if needed. Everything you want in a dependable 4th-liner.

I dont want to call you biased because of UM, Im a UM guy as well but that might partially be it. Glendening was not as impressive last year in the AHL as Callahan has been this season and there is still a year of difference there.

I completely agree that the age difference is a big factor when talking about Callahan. And of course I want to see Glendening succeed, being a Wolverine, but I've pulled for other players of his ilk just as hard in the past, including Drew Miller, who's a dirty Spartan. I defended the hell out of him when a bunch of people didn't like the fact that the Wings claimed him off of waivers. It's less about where they went to school and more about the game they play. I like Sheahan too, even though he's another rival So, maybe it's just college players I like? But then I shouldn't dislike Abdelkader as much as I do

I also dont think Callahan is for sure better at the NHL level. I just dont want to see him waived when Glendening can just be sent down. If Callahan shows he deserves to stay than they should keep him up. If Nyquist can get sent down so can Glendening, this year Callahan has shown he deserves a shot at the big club. Glendening hasnt been so great that hes worth losing a pretty solid young player over.

I have no problem with that plan. Luckily, there's still a third of a season left, plus a training camp and a preseason before any decisions need to be made. A lot of time for things to further sort themselves out. For all we know, one of these guys will be included in a trade package. Or maybe something else happens that allows both to make the team. But yes, if Callahan has a good rest of the season, a good camp, and a good preseason, then put him on the roster. And if that means Glendening goes down, so be it. Lot of hockey to play before that happens though. The landscape of this situation may be very different down the road.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I am an MSU (hate U of M) guy and I think Glendening is better than Callahan right now especially in terms of what I expect both to do at the NHL level.

I hope Callahan continues to grow, but I don't think he is better than Glendening right now and given the roles they will be tasked with I don't think he is better suited for what we will expect out of him. Sorry Newfy I also don't agree that he is a faster skater. He is better offensively, but that isn't going to be his job at the next level. So Glendening being better defensively, with center flexibility (as you all know I want him on the wing long-term, but it doesn't hurt when a guy gets tossed he will draw in) and his edge in penalty killing is a pretty big deal when you evaluate them heads up.

But heck I hope he makes the team and they blast California love on his 5-10 goals a year and he gets cleared from the head injuries into fighting a half dozen times because he doesn't do that nearly as much anymore.

In any event Blashill deserves a ton of credit as does Mitch from learning from his scratches last year and getting the message. He stood no chance before he concentrated on the defensive aspects of his game along with the ability to pk although he isn't as good as Sheahan, Ferraro or Glendening in that particular area.

But more to the point it makes the signing of Miller for three years a big pain in the *** with them coming along assuming they make the space for these guys and Babcock holds onto Andersson for dear life, just pretty silly.

I do expect Mitch to be a pretty big fan favorite if he does make it. At least in his case unlike Tootoo we broke it to him from an early age that his NHL future would be defined by learning to pk and play defense, not just being a mediocre middleweight that hits and has some offensive tools.

I do agree with Newfy though that in terms of risking one of these guys to waivers, Glendening might go down because he is eligible to. Just think long-term Glendening is going to win out here. Could be Callahan has Ferraro dead in the water though with him having a great year and Landon really struggling at points.

Once again worth pointing out Callahan has struggled at every jump he has made in hockey, both from Cali to the WHL taking him a while to get a handle, then the WHL to the AHL, this next one is an area where he needs less of a bumpy ride than he had at the last two levels.

Whether you guys like Glendening or not Berenson, Blashill, and Babcock are all nuts about the kid. His veteran teammates on the Griffins, Mike Knuble and now some of the guys in the Wings dressing room never shut up about him. There is clearly something there they all go nuts for, he is a coaches player. Not to say Callahan can't be certainly he has made a believer in Blash, but everything indicates Glendening is going to be one of those guys, the fourth line guy the coach always talks about like Dan Bylsma was back in the day or others that fit the bill. A smart guy that does his role in is loved and praised by teammates and coaches alike.

 

[Frk It]

The good news is our bottom 6 to start this year was:

Cleary-Andersson-Bertuzzi
Miller-Emmerton-Samuelsson

Soo pretty much no matter what, we'll have a better bottom 6 to open the season next year.

God that was awful.

 

[InjuredChoker]

cleary with bert.

78:28 mins
0.510 GF/20
2.039 GA/20.


nothing to see here.

 

[Frk It]

cleary with bert.

78:28 mins
0.510 GF/20
2.039 GA/20.


nothing to see here.

Can't think of a worse LW/RW combo to put out there.

 

[SoupGuru]

What is a farm team for? Player development.

I get the impression sometimes that a lot of posters here don't understand that. Some kid straight out of college or junior doesn't have what it takes to play in the NHL except in rare circumstances.

I'm glad we have awesome prospects. They'll be awesomer when they become top level professional athletes. What does it take to get there? Well, we could sit here all day and talk about it.

It just gets tiresome when half this board seems to think playing in GR is some sort of curse and that there's no value to it. "So-and-so is the best player ever. Why is he still in GR?!?!" Because we're really good at developing our prospects.

Go ask on the main board which NHL teams have the best prospect development program.

 

[Frk It]

What is a farm team for? Player development.

I get the impression sometimes that a lot of posters here don't understand that. Some kid straight out of college or junior doesn't have what it takes to play in the NHL except in rare circumstances.

I'm glad we have awesome prospects. They'll be awesomer when they become top level professional athletes. What does it take to get there? Well, we could sit here all day and talk about it.

It just gets tiresome when half this board seems to think playing in GR is some sort of curse and that there's no value to it. "So-and-so is the best player ever. Why is he still in GR?!?!" Because we're really good at developing our prospects.

Go ask on the main board which NHL teams have the best prospect development program.

In this thread we are mainly talking about 2 players (Callahan and Ferraro) and how both are out of waiver eligibility next year. I haven't really see many saying they are mad they aren't on the team right now.

Mostly it's just speculating about what will happen next year, and who stays and who goes.

 

[Frk It]

I love Landon Ferraro and what he brings to the table.

But I'm just wondering if this thought has entered anyone else's mind... Do we think Landon Ferraro can play "his game" at the NHL level and his body will hold up? Given his frame?

I mean he's like what 6'0, and 175 lbs? And doesn't he have an issue staying healthy, even at lower levels so far?

I mean I think it's fantastic he likes to throw big hits and agitate... But what's going to happen when he tries to do that against NHL'ers?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I love Landon Ferraro and what he brings to the table.

But I'm just wondering if this thought has entered anyone else's mind... Do we think Landon Ferraro can play "his game" at the NHL level and his body will hold up? Given his frame?

I mean he's like what 6'0 and 175 lbs? And doesn't he have an issue staying healthy, even at lower levels so far?

I mean I think it's fantastic he likes to throw big hits and agitate? But what's going to happen when he tries to do that against NHL'ers?

Who knows? Wouldn't it be nice to see a preview on both? (Ferraro and Callahan)

 

[Vatican Roulette]

What is a farm team for? Player development.

I get the impression sometimes that a lot of posters here don't understand that. Some kid straight out of college or junior doesn't have what it takes to play in the NHL except in rare circumstances.

I'm glad we have awesome prospects. They'll be awesomer when they become top level professional athletes. What does it take to get there? Well, we could sit here all day and talk about it.

It just gets tiresome when half this board seems to think playing in GR is some sort of curse and that there's no value to it. "So-and-so is the best player ever. Why is he still in GR?!?!" Because we're really good at developing our prospects.

Go ask on the main board which NHL teams have the best prospect development program.

There is a huge advantage to development. Griffins won the Calder because of it. Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening have all contributed to the team this year.

Who says Ferraro and Callahan can't?

In the case of Ferraro and Callahan, they've developed enough to at least be given a cup of coffee. You draft a guy and develop him for x amount of years, and he's playing good, bring him up. If not, what's the point of developing him?

Example: Would you spend 3 years restoring a car, sell it for less than what you put into it, without even taking her out for a spin?

 

[Frk It]

There is a huge advantage to development. Griffins won the Calder because of it. Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco, Glendening have all contributed to the team this year.

Who says Ferraro and Callahan can't?

In the case of Ferraro and Callahan, they've developed enough to at least be given a cup of coffee. You draft a guy and develop him for x amount of years, and he's playing good, bring him up. If not, what's the point of developing him?

Example: Would you spend 3 years restoring a car, sell it for less than what you put into it, without even taking her out for a spin?

Well we're talking about the same team that chose to drive their 1979 Ford Pinto (Dan Cleary) so they could keep their brand new Mustang in the garage (Nyquist).

 

[Outl4w]

Mustang, don't insult Nyquist like that. He is at least a real muscle car like the Camaro SS or a twin-turbo Audi or VW.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I love Landon Ferraro and what he brings to the table.

But I'm just wondering if this thought has entered anyone else's mind... Do we think Landon Ferraro can play "his game" at the NHL level and his body will hold up? Given his frame?

I mean he's like what 6'0, and 175 lbs? And doesn't he have an issue staying healthy, even at lower levels so far?

I mean I think it's fantastic he likes to throw big hits and agitate... But what's going to happen when he tries to do that against NHL'ers?

I like Landon a lot too. I view prospects as works in progress, even after promotions to the NHL. As a result, I tend to value tools as much as pure statistical production.
I also place great weight on speed when it comes to bottom-six players.

But like Cally, we are never going to know what we have with Landon unless we see a couple of NHL games out of them. I want to see both him and Cally up this year for a couple of games. My fear is that we are going to get into a dog fight for a playoff spot down the stretch that prevents us from calling these guys up.

 

[bababooeyII]

Mitchell Callahan was drafted because he was a gritty character player in juniors, the Wings drafted him to be their Matt Cooke/Steve Ott type of player who would get under the skin of opposing players and knock them off their game. Every scouting report said he would have to show he was more than a one dimensional player if he was to ever get a chance to play in Detroit. So each year he has improved his skating, improved his defensive awareness to the point where he is a top PK'er, and has now even increased his offense. Again he was drafted because he provided an element that was missing from this team, that they have not had since the heydays of Maltby. McCarty. There is no one on this team that plays that style like Callahan does. Every year the Wings management says we'd like to get grittier, we'd like to be harder to play against and end up missing out on those players because the prices are too high as those guys are always in demand in free agency and at the trade deadlines. The Wings have now groomed their own and now there is a chance they let him walk for nothing? So that in 5 years they can seek a replacement and overpay for him as a free agent or lose draft picks? I just don't understand why a guy you drafted to bring a certain element has brought that and added to his game yet still not worthy of a call up or consideration for next years roster. Ferraro was drafted to be a scorer, his game has regressed, and Glendening has essentially reached his ceiling he's a nice depth player but he's not going to develop into anything more than a depth player. However since he went to Michigan and is from Grand Rapids it makes for a great story. If he had not played at Michigan and was not a local kid he would not even have been signed by Grand Rapids, he'd be with another AHL team or playing a 1st line role on some ECHL team.