Blue Jays Discussion: Midway point in the season and things don't look.. Ugh.. Good

[theaub]

Outside of Tulowitzki (who tbh probably is what he is too), who has been truly disappointing when leaving somewhere else and coming here?

If anything, its been a bunch of guys who have punched above their career-dictated weight.

 

[Bluelines]

lmao people still believe the mental health issue BS?

That was some JP Ricciardi-esque cover up ****.

Oh? Who would use mental health as a cover up, pretty shady thing to do IMO.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I think most people recognize that there are some pretty solid pieces on the farm, but that the holes in the roster also won't be filled by next season.

So tweaking to try to contend next season doesn't make sense to me. I'd aim for 2019 and beyond. So any pieces that can only help us next year, but not long-term, we should consider selling off.

Not against that strategy at all. I haven't been opposed to a good trade for any non-core asset since May.

That said, if I'm not getting value for the assets that are non upcoming free agents, I'm hanging on to them. And I'm not "tanking" because teams with $150MM payrolls don't need to.

 

[thewave]

lmao people still believe the mental health issue BS?

That was some JP Ricciardi-esque cover up ****.

I think they should swap out the trainers myself. Investigate the field, lighting turf etc. Do an indepth computer anaysis into injuries, errors, pitching proficiency. See where they perform best at what times of day lighting conditions etc. Also personal relationship between players.

Rip it right down to the type of gim they chew. Something does not seem right.

 

[theaub]

Oh? Who would use mental health as a cover up, pretty shady thing to do IMO.

Yeah to be clear here I'm not going to blame anyone who doesn't want to go down the 'team-wide conspiracy' route with that one, it just doesn't add up to me.

I think they should swap out the trainers myself. Investigate the field, lighting turf etc. Do an indepth computer anaysis into injuries, errors, pitching proficiency. See where they perform best at what times of day lighting conditions etc. Also personal relationship between players.

Rip it right down to the type of gim they chew. Something does not seem right.

tbh whatever metafour is doing in this topic is basically exactly what I want to do with the people I argued with for the entire offseason on the ol' reddit that you can't take one year of the "High Performance Department" as proof that they are God's gift to the health of pro athletes (but its my own fault for wading into that cesspool in the first place).

 

[thewave]

Yeah to be clear here I'm not going to blame anyone who doesn't want to go down the 'team-wide conspiracy' route with that one, it just doesn't add up to me.



tbh whatever metafour is doing in this topic is basically exactly what I want to do with the people I argued with for the entire offseason on the ol' reddit that you can't take one year of the "High Performance Department" as proof that they are God's gift to the health of pro athletes (but its my own fault for wading into that cesspool in the first place).

Yeah I dont know about all that. Not even going to speculate though I would say if I were spending 150m a year i would would spend an extra 2m to make sure they perform the best they can and under the best conditions with the best support system.

 

[ToneDog]

I think they should swap out the trainers myself. Investigate the field, lighting turf etc. Do an indepth computer anaysis into injuries, errors, pitching proficiency. See where they perform best at what times of day lighting conditions etc. Also personal relationship between players.

Rip it right down to the type of gim they chew. Something does not seem right.

Stop. The problem is simple. This team lives and dies by the HR. They are not hitting enough HRs (probably due to declining talent and injuries) and their pitching has not been good enough to compensate. Their record is something like 4-22 when they do not hit a HR.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Not be argumentative but you're assuming that those 3 will continue to perform at this level and at the same time assuming the people I want to acquire will be gambles.

Sanchez is already showing some Al Lieter like issues, you can easily fix it by having him pee on his pitching hand ever time he goes to the bathroom, I know gross and sounds crazy but it will toughen up his skin.

Stroman is small, very small and the type of pitches he throws will eventually break down his arm, its not if it will, its when it will, this guy will not have a long career.

Osuna is having some mental health issues,that is not like a twisted ankle that gets better in a few weeks, its something that will be a life long condition that may get worse, having a friend who has anxiety/panic attacks, I can speak from experience one second things are fine next second he is in a full blown panic attack for seemingly no reason. Its a very serious health issue.

Every athlete is a bit of an unknown, be it the guys we have or the guys I would hope we would get in a trade.

Feel free to be as argumentative as you want to be. That's your right, and your opinion is yours and yours alone.

My opinion, without the benefit of having access to actual medicals, is that they will actually be more productive over the next three years of control, and should be extended as soon as possible. (i.e. three years of control for two years of free agency).

I have no concrete evidence to suggest (a) Osuna's elbow is deteriorating because he had TJ (b) Stroman is too short to maintain, at minimum, his current level of proficiency (c) The Dirty will continue to have blister issues for the next three years. To me, those fears are typical Toronto fanbase BS; all due respect to those who have them.

 

[Discoverer]

Fair enough and TBH I was blinded by his horrible hitting this year. I can accept the crappy hitting if the other people in the lineup weren't so horrible.

Russell Martin has a 105 wRC+ this year. So he's 5% better than the average player, regardless of position. Then you can account for the fact that he's a catcher, and the average catcher has an 88 wRC+, and you realize that he's actually a really good hitter given the defensive expectations and physical demands of his position.

Do you want to take a guess at how many catchers get on base more often than Martin?

 

[thewave]

Stop. The problem is simple. This team lives and dies by the HR. They are not hitting enough HRs (probably due to declining talent and injuries) and their pitching has not been good enough to compensate. Their record is something like 4-22 when they do not hit a HR.

That looks like a direct link. So we dont hit HRs. Great the declining talents are what we should ship out. Sounds easy.

 

[theaub]

Yeah I dont know about all that. Not even going to speculate though I would say if I were spending 150m a year i would would spend an extra 2m to make sure they perform the best they can and under the best conditions with the best support system.

Here is the article on the HP team. Take from it what you will (it is enjoyable in hindisght considering basically every player they profile has spent an extended amount of time on the DL this year).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/big-read-inside-toronto-blue-jays-high-performance-department/

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Yeah to be clear here I'm not going to blame anyone who doesn't want to go down the 'team-wide conspiracy' route with that one, it just doesn't add up to me.



tbh whatever metafour is doing in this topic is basically exactly what I want to do with the people I argued with for the entire offseason on the ol' reddit that you can't take one year of the "High Performance Department" as proof that they are God's gift to the health of pro athletes (but its my own fault for wading into that cesspool in the first place).

I've seen worse than the Reddit. The old tsn comment section is still king.

 

[Discoverer]

Feel free to be as argumentative as you want to be. That's your right, and your opinion is yours and yours alone.

My opinion, without the benefit of having access to actual medicals, is that they will actually be more productive over the next three years of control, and should be extended as soon as possible. (i.e. three years of control for two years of free agency).

I have no concrete evidence to suggest (a) Osuna's elbow is deteriorating because he had TJ (b) Stroman is too short to maintain, at minimum, his current level of proficiency (c) The Dirty will continue to have blister issues for the next three years. To me, those fears are typical Toronto fanbase BS; all due respect to those who have them.

While B and C are stupid, A can actually be supported by studies on pitchers who have had TJ. Obviously that doesn't mean it is deteriorating, just that he's at a greater risk.

That concerns me about Osuna, and I'm not convinced Sanchez is open to a reasonable extension. If he is, I would love to see them work one out.

Stroman, though... I want that to get done as soon as possible.

 

[Discoverer]

That looks like a direct link. So we dont hit HRs. Great the declining talents are what we should ship out. Sounds easy.

The Kawasaki effect seemed like a direct link, too.

 

[phillipmike]

Fair enough and TBH I was blinded by his horrible hitting this year. I can accept the crappy hitting if the other people in the lineup weren't so horrible.

Probably thrown off by his usually high walk rate which contributes a lot. Last time he put up a BB/K this good was the 2013 Pirates and before that the 2010 Dodgers so i dont expect it to happen next year.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The Kawasaki effect seemed like a direct link, too.

We haven't won the division since Kawasaki left, hmmm....

 

[phillipmike]

We haven't won the division since Kawasaki left, hmmm....

And the Cubs havent either nor a WS... We got to bring him back.

 

[thewave]

Here is the article on the HP team. Take from it what you will (it is enjoyable in hindisght considering basically every player they profile has spent an extended amount of time on the DL this year).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/big-read-inside-toronto-blue-jays-high-performance-department/

Oh wow i had no idea they do that much. One thing i do not like/and think its insane to do!

You never **** to much with the training individual athletes do specific to themselves. No wonder they are on an off year. If the guy has used his pump for years you dont **** with that. Thats insane! I was right, fire the trainers, they can keep the damn analytics but dont mess with an athletes regiment too much!!

 

[Discoverer]

Oh wow i had no idea they do that much. One thing i do not like/and think its insane to do!

You never **** to much with the training individual athletes do specific to themselves. No wonder they are on an off year. If the guy has used his pump for years you dont **** with that. Thats insane! I was right, fire the trainers, they can keep the damn analytics but dont mess with an athletes regiment too much!!

Yeah, the important takeaway there is that they should have let Steve Pearce continue to do what he's always done to stay healthy. Why change what works?

 

[Woodman19]

What have I spent the past 10 minutes reading?

 

[thewave]

Yeah, the important takeaway there is that they should have let Steve Pearce continue to do what he's always done to stay healthy. Why change what works?

These guys are self motivated winners. They got to where they are doing what they do. Some guys are more prone to injury than others but the fact remains most athletes have a set regiment, its their discipline. You dont screw with that.

If a guy eats 2.2hrs before a game, balances on one foot and touches his nose for a minute and then blinks rapidly for 20 seconds then goes out and bats .300 on the season, do you say actually you should be eating at 1.5hrs and stop the blknking it strains your eyelids. ..

 

[thewave]

What have I spent the past 10 minutes reading?

Stop reading its bad for your eyes and on sports forums its usually not very informative anyways.

 

[Discoverer]

These guys are self motivated winners. They got to where they are doing what they do. Some guys are more prone to injury than others but the fact remains most athletes have a set regiment, its their discipline. You dont screw with that.

If a guy eats 2.2hrs before a game, balances on one foot and touches his nose for a minute and then blinks rapidly for 20 seconds then goes out and bats .300 on the season, do you say actually you should be eating at 1.5hrs and stop the blknking it strains your eyelids. ..

If that guy misses 50% of his team's games due to injuries every single year over the course of a decade? Then yes, I would want to change literally everything he does.

 

[thewave]

If that guy misses 50% of his team's games due to injuries every single year over the course of a decade? Then yes, I would want to change literally everything he does.

Yeah i get that, but... Wouldn't your analytics dept say.. Hey, this guys injury prone, do not sign. Sounds like an experiment to me.

 

[Mach85]

What have I spent the past 10 minutes reading?

At least we're not on the Reddit. Never visit that place, Woodman. A bizarro land where the m'ladys roam free, mediocre opinions are celebrated, and life becomes one big ********** among a group of people who've found a place to coalesce because they lack the coping skills to function adaptively in the real world.