Midseason conversation with Yzerman

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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It is a fool's errand to try to decifer his draft-day intentions from a mid-season interview.

Yeah, Yzerman speaks perfect politics, gives nothing valuable info about individuals or details on his speaks. Just general and obvious things.

I'm sure nothing pisses Yzerman off more than wasted talent and potential which is basically AA in a nutshell.

I don't think a 4th rounder who was able to score 30 goals is a wasted talent. He was developed for very interesting piece, this time for other organizations.

He is just in a wrong team on a wrong phase of a build. He brings his old value for contender, but it's time for a change of scenery. Yzerman just transfers his value to something else more valuable to us. Winger out from a winger surplus. No need to cry after him.

If we would ask from Devellano, Athanasiou is just cattle. A cow on a horse ranch. We need horses, not a cow. Yzerman will go shopping.
 
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ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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I do wonder how the Wings plan on navigating pre- and post-deadline call ups (non-injury call ups). I think the team would obviously like to give some players a look late in the season, and I'm sure they'd like to keep others qualified for the AHL playoffs. With Zadina, Smith, Svech, Seider, Veleno, Rasmussen, Lindstrom, Cholowski, Hirose, and less significant options like Turgeon, Pearson, and Kuffner, it's going to be interesting how they decide who gets what opportunity and when. If they are going to give some players a sneak peek at the NHL (Mo/Joe) or want to see if players have developed over the year (Geno/Ras/Cholo/Taco), I would think that decision might be worth playing around with prior to the deadline.

Given that Yzerman seems to be really high on having a winning culture in his farm system, I'd be really surprised if Zadina doesn't get re-assigned on paper before and then called back up on paper after the deadline, just to leave the option of AHL playoffs open for him.

I would imagine it's going to be really easy to navigate on D. Send down whatever D is up from GR before the deadline, move Green and/or Daley and leave only 6 D on the roster after the deadline. Yzerman can then use the perpetually banged up status of Ericsson and Daley (if he's still around) as an excuse to look at a whole bunch of different Dmen from GR on emergency recall. That said, if they move Green AND Daley, they'd have to either get another Dman in a trade (ala Bowey last year) or burn a regular call up to get to 6D, and subsequently burn another if/when they decide to send that dman back down to call up another.

Seems like it will be a lot more difficult at forward. Assuming Zadina doesn't go back down before the AHL playoffs, they'll have 14 when (or more realistically if) everyone is healthy. If they don't move any of the more valuable forwards, unless they shut some guys down or maybe trade/waive/demote one of the guys that's likely to sit when everyone's healthy (Ehn or Perlini), they'll have to burn regular call ups or wait for injuries to pile up in order to look at more than a couple of forwards. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
 

Winger98

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I think it's possible the wings don't bother calling a lot of guys up, and just let them push through the season in GR.
 

deca guard

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Yeah, Yzerman speaks perfect politics, gives nothing valuable info about individuals or details on his speaks. Just general and obvious things.



I don't think a 4th rounder who was able to score 30 goals is a wasted talent. He was developed for very interesting piece, this time for other organizations.

He is just in a wrong team on a wrong phase of a build. He brings his old value for contender, but it's time for a change of scenery. Yzerman just transfers his value to something else more valuable to us. Winger out from a winger surplus. No need to cry after him.

If we would ask from Devellano, Athanasiou is just cattle. A cow on a horse ranch. We need horses, not a cow. Yzerman will go shopping.
so on this ranch is zadina a cute little foal or a cuddly calf :laugh:
 

MBH

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I think it's possible the wings don't bother calling a lot of guys up, and just let them push through the season in GR.

Seider will get a taste if he's playing well.
Cholo might if he bounces back. What's his waiver eligibility look like now? Does he still have a full year there?
I can't imagine that Ras won't get a look unless the Wings really want him to focus on playing center.
 

Claypool

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I think it's possible the wings don't bother calling a lot of guys up, and just let them push through the season in GR.
Seems pretty ill-advised. Management needs to see how these guys play at the NHL level, evaluate them, give them feedback on what to improve, and then have them go back down for a possible playoff run.
 

Henkka

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Seems pretty ill-advised. Management needs to see how these guys play at the NHL level, evaluate them, give them feedback on what to improve, and then have them go back down for a possible playoff run.

Like they have done with Cholowski, Zadina, Svechnikov, Smith, Ehn, Hicketts, Hirose, McIlrath...

...and like they probably do with Rasmussen, Veleno, Lindström, Seider, after some roster spots will open after trade deadline trades.
 

Winger98

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Seems pretty ill-advised. Management needs to see how these guys play at the NHL level, evaluate them, give them feedback on what to improve, and then have them go back down for a possible playoff run.

I don't think calling them up is really necessary for that. I think the callups are more of rewards, get decent travel for a bit, an NHL paycheck. At that point in the season, I think the games in GR are going to be more competitive and meaningful. Ideally, we'd have them up playing meaningful games in Detroit, but when you're on pace for 40-something points, that just isn't going to happen.

Seider will get a taste if he's playing well.
Cholo might if he bounces back. What's his waiver eligibility look like now? Does he still have a full year there?
I can't imagine that Ras won't get a look unless the Wings really want him to focus on playing center.

Cholo has another year/79 games before he loses waivers. Other than Seider and Svech, I'm expecting everyone in GR right now to likely be there again when next season starts. Maybe Yzerman will clear the decks a bit dealing Helm/Glendening this year, but if he doesn't then our forward group is pretty tight with just the guys already there and the better RFAs needing to be re-signed.

Add in a top4 pick who might make the team, the lesser RFAs (Erne, Perlini, Ehn), and the pinch gets tighter.
 
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ShelbyZ

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Cholo has another year/79 games before he loses waivers. Other than Seider and Svech, I'm expecting everyone in GR right now to likely be there again when next season starts. Maybe Yzerman will clear the decks a bit dealing Helm/Glendening this year, but if he doesn't then our forward group is pretty tight with just the guys already there and the better RFAs needing to be re-signed.

Add in a top4 pick who might make the team, the lesser RFAs (Erne, Perlini, Ehn), and the pinch gets tighter.

Yzerman definitely has to subtract one contracted or RFA current roster forward if he wants to make room for Zadina for next year, and another if he plans to carry 13F and 8D. I would assume one spot would come from moving one of AA/Helm/Glendening before next year, and he's probably comfortable putting Ehn and/or Perlini on waivers if there's no room or they are pushed out by a young guy that plays into a regular spot and pushes them out.

I think you're probably right though. Looking at the contract situation at forward, a real "youth movement" up front is probably on hold until 21-22. I would assume Yzerman's hope is that he won't have make too many calls on 7/1/21 when Helm, Glendening and Filppula (and possibly a forward lost to Seattle) need to be replaced because he's got young guys ready to step into the NHL. I would imagine if they haven't already been, Rasmussen, Smith and Veleno would be promoted full time at that point.
 
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Oddbob

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There won't be an issue for forwards next year when it comes to RFA's as most of them are replaceable, guys like Perlini, Erne, Ehn and the like. Fabbri is the only one of the older RFA's worth keeping. I am only referencing the bottom tier RFA's not Mantha or AA when I say worth keeping. My only issue with Fabbri is defensively he doesn't seem like he knows what to do. I don't get the sense of him being lazy, as I see compete from him, but his defensive play is not great, so he needs to be scoring consistently to be worth keeping.
 

Barry Amsterdam

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Don’t really know where to put this but. Was messing around on Cap friendly and I’m 2021 I came up with this
Signings - Bert 6x6/Mantha 6.8x7/hronek 5x4/ svech 1.2x3/Ras 2.5x3/ Fabbri 3.5x3/ cholo 2x3

Traded Anthansiou- Georgiev

Signed RNH 9x7/ Krug 8.5x7

this roster came in 8 mill Under the cap

Bert Larkin Mantha
Lafreniere RNH Zadina
Rasmussen Veleno Fabbri
Smith Nielsen(last year) Svechnikov
(Abdelkader)

Krug Seider
Mcissac Hronek
Chowlowski Dekesyer(last year)
Hicketts

Georgiev
Larsson

would shed almost 11 mill in cap in Neilson and Dekesyer for upgrades which would allow for a RNH/Krug overpay.


That’s a very very good roster imo and even if you sign Holtby for 9 mill. Instead of a Georgiev trade it’d still fit capwise
 

The Wizard of Oz

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Petro over Krug. Lehner/Markstrom over Holtby. Petro’s a legit number 1 on both sides of the ice and leader. Holtby outside of the 20 game cup run hasn’t been the same in years. He’s on the downswing.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Petro over Krug. Lehner/Markstrom over Holtby. Petro’s a legit number 1 on both sides of the ice and leader. Holtby outside of the 20 game cup run hasn’t been the same in years. He’s on the downswing.

Quite sure Pietrangelo will stay at St. Louis and Parayko is the guy who leaves at some point (for Seattle most probably).
 

WingsMJN2965

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Oct 13, 2017
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I'd say the Nyquist trade framework is probably realistic at this point. Right around 2 second round picks (obviously Nyquist's condition wasn't met). Nyquist at the time of his trade was a superior player (considering his impact on possession and consistency + no smoke around him), but with no team control. Maybe I'd push more for a bubble team and a conditional first based on re-signing, and hope and pray they miss the playoffs to push the pick up into the middle of the first. But I just can't see Yzerman hitching his wagon to a condition of re-signing because of Athanasiou's history. If he comes in and there is any form of stink made about him, the incentive would probably fall on the team to not offer him a contract and part with the lesser pick.

It's a delicate situation because the team should never settle for "what they can get" on a good player, even if he has warts, if that player has team control. It will be an interesting development to watch.

Meh. Rental vs. RFA.
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
18,106
17,699
Don’t really know where to put this but. Was messing around on Cap friendly and I’m 2021 I came up with this
Signings - Bert 6x6/Mantha 6.8x7/hronek 5x4/ svech 1.2x3/Ras 2.5x3/ Fabbri 3.5x3/ cholo 2x3

Traded Anthansiou- Georgiev

Signed RNH 9x7/ Krug 8.5x7

this roster came in 8 mill Under the cap

Bert Larkin Mantha
Lafreniere RNH Zadina
Rasmussen Veleno Fabbri
Smith Nielsen(last year) Svechnikov
(Abdelkader)

Krug Seider
Mcissac Hronek
Chowlowski Dekesyer(last year)
Hicketts

Georgiev
Larsson

would shed almost 11 mill in cap in Neilson and Dekesyer for upgrades which would allow for a RNH/Krug overpay.


That’s a very very good roster imo and even if you sign Holtby for 9 mill. Instead of a Georgiev trade it’d still fit capwise

$9M x 7 years for a center who's never cracked 70 points?

giphy.gif
 

SirloinUB

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Aug 20, 2010
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Did anyone else catch the bit about Bowey? Yzerman mentions that he is young, plays a lot of minutes and “should continue to develop.”

It seems he can be on the inside track to sticking around past this season. Given his age and our expiring contracts on the back end it makes sense to bring him back.

What kind of deal makes sense? A two year bridge contract for 2 or 3 million?
 

vladdy16

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Aug 2, 2005
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Did anyone else catch the bit about Bowey? Yzerman mentions that he is young, plays a lot of minutes and “should continue to develop.”

It seems he can be on the inside track to sticking around past this season. Given his age and our expiring contracts on the back end it makes sense to bring him back.

What kind of deal makes sense? A two year bridge contract for 2 or 3 million?

I pray that was a last ditch attempt to get his trade value above 0.

If we are moving forward with guys like Bowey, it would be an incredibly bad sign imo.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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Did anyone else catch the bit about Bowey? Yzerman mentions that he is young, plays a lot of minutes and “should continue to develop.”

It seems he can be on the inside track to sticking around past this season. Given his age and our expiring contracts on the back end it makes sense to bring him back.

What kind of deal makes sense? A two year bridge contract for 2 or 3 million?

Qualifying offer has to be what he makes plus 10% right? So, $1.1m. I think he's worth about that per year.
 

Winger98

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I pray that was a last ditch attempt to get his trade value above 0.

If we are moving forward with guys like Bowey, it would be an incredibly bad sign imo.

A one or two year deal isn't a big thing. We'll have the room, and if he improves at all he'll be a better trade chip.
 
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vladdy16

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A one or two year deal isn't a big thing. We'll have the room, and if he improves at all he'll be a better trade chip.

I am all on board with that in theory. I love a player that sticks with it to find those key pieces in his game that have been holding him back. All respect to Bowey as a pro.

But at this point in the season, at this point in the "Yzerplan", I'm on high alert in regards to what we're being sold as far as what's an acceptable intermediate, and what are acceptable intermediate pieces moving forward.

If minute munching, and being a good guy off the ice and a good interview for Carly, are good enough to get you signed on past a training camp, that spells disaster from a business model over sporting philosophy standpoint imo. We are far enough into this season to say that the seriousness of this past pre-season was complete bs. The best players in the org, or on the market, have not been playing for the Red Wings this year.

In that context, the idea of all of sudden keeping Bowey around as a mentor and pro off the ice, but inevitably a sub-par hockey mind on the ice, it's concerning for me to see that level of hypocrisy in such a small window of time from the top of the organization.
 

Rzombo4 prez

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A one or two year deal isn't a big thing. We'll have the room, and if he improves at all he'll be a better trade chip.

I think you sign him knowing that you can waive him if necessary. You do need depth, even if you don't think he is going to be a long-term member of the organization.
 
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Rzombo4 prez

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I think you sign him knowing that you can waive him if necessary. You do need depth, even if you don't think he is going to be a long-term member of the organization. I get that people want to turn over 80% of our blueline, but it just isn't going to happen in one off season.
 

Winger98

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I am all on board with that in theory. I love a player that sticks with it to find those key pieces in his game that have been holding him back. All respect to Bowey as a pro.

But at this point in the season, at this point in the "Yzerplan", I'm on high alert in regards to what we're being sold as far as what's an acceptable intermediate, and what are acceptable intermediate pieces moving forward.

If minute munching, and being a good guy off the ice and a good interview for Carly, are good enough to get you signed on past a training camp, that spells disaster from a business model over sporting philosophy standpoint imo. We are far enough into this season to say that the seriousness of this past pre-season was complete bs. The best players in the org, or on the market, have not been playing for the Red Wings this year.

In that context, the idea of all of sudden keeping Bowey around as a mentor and pro off the ice, but inevitably a sub-par hockey mind on the ice, it's concerning for me to see that level of hypocrisy in such a small window of time from the top of the organization.

Assuming Bowey is re-signed, the only returning D next season would be Bowey, Dekeyser, Nemeth, and Hronek. Seider is probably promoted. Cholo might be ready, but after not hacking it for two seasons in a row, maybe it's time to just start him in GR and let him earn that call-up. It's also unlikely any of the other kids will earn a spot out of camp, and we definitely don't want to be in the position of forcing it on them because we don't have options.

And Yzerman wasn't talking about him being a mentor or anything, he specifically said Bowey "continues to develop." Bowey is like Fabbri, DLR, Erne, etc.: a lottery ticket the wings are hoping to cash in on. Because of the lack of depth and the need to fill out the lineup, the wings have the luxury of keeping him around and giving him more minutes next season.
 

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Did anyone else catch the bit about Bowey? Yzerman mentions that he is young, plays a lot of minutes and “should continue to develop.”

It seems he can be on the inside track to sticking around past this season. Given his age and our expiring contracts on the back end it makes sense to bring him back.

What kind of deal makes sense? A two year bridge contract for 2 or 3 million?

I noticed that and it makes sense. Hes producing this year at a pretty high rate even strength, hes only 24 and the wings arent going to be competing for a couple years anyways.

Why wouldnt they extend him for a couple years to see if he figures out the turnover issues? Hes big, fast and somewhat physical and productive at even strength. There could be something there and its worth waiting to see if he can figure it out while the wings suck
 
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Henkka

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Bowey is our worst defenceman defensively. Only thing I still see is let him collect nice production and then walk to Seattle.
 

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