Player Discussion Micheal Ferland

[tantalum]

Except that in the last two seasons his teams have been better with him on the top line and he had his two best seasons in his career.

Well he did better on the top lines. Last year on the Canes the top line didn't care if he was on it or not. Similar for the flames from what I recall...any differences were swamped by luck.

He's not much more than filler on a scoring line. He isn't going to elevate their games. It's a different version of Baerstchi, Pearson etc. But I do believe with the right center on the third line that he can help the bottom 6 and yes be able to move up when needed without causing great harm.

 

[Hit the post]

Well he did better on the top lines. Last year on the Canes the top line didn't care if he was on it or not. Similar for the flames from what I recall...any differences were swamped by luck.

He's not much more than filler on a scoring line. He isn't going to elevate their games. It's a different version of Baerstchi, Pearson etc. But I do believe with the right center on the third line that he can help the bottom 6 and yes be able to move up when needed without causing great harm.

Yeah I seem to remember also him putting on points when put with his teams best offensive weapons. Course Wade Brookbank was at something like a 50 goal pace when with the Sedins for a short period of time. Granted, Ferland is a much better player; still think he was carried (offensively) by his line mates. Prob better to put him with guys like Pettersson when Pettersson is hot rather than now.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Except that in the last two seasons his teams have been better with him on the top line and he had his two best seasons in his career.

Ferland's linemates actually performed better without him than with him. He's been carried by Gaudreau/Monahan and Aho/Teravainen, and for as good as Pettersson and Boeser are they aren't on that level yet.

It's kinda hilarious actually. Bringing in a guy like Ferland and expecting his career year with elite linemates to just somehow continue.

 

[sting101]

Ferland's linemates actually performed better without him than with him. He's been carried by Gaudreau/Monahan and Aho/Teravainen, and for as good as Pettersson and Boeser are they aren't on that level yet.

It's kinda hilarious actually. Bringing in a guy like Ferland and expecting his career year with elite linemates to just somehow continue.

On the first point. To be expected when Neiderreiter and Lindholm are the replacements No?

Ferland is a 3rd liner who can bump up when skating and handling the puck with confidence and late in games he can provide some push back for all the BS that teams are starting to do behind the play and after the whistles.

I dont think anyone is expecting much more and for 3.5 as a UFA no one should be upset if thats all he does

 

[MS]

On the first point. To be expected when Neiderreiter and Lindholm are the replacements No?

Ferland is a 3rd liner who can bump up when skating and handling the puck with confidence and late in games he can provide some push back for all the BS that teams are starting to do behind the play and after the whistles.

I dont think anyone is expecting much more and for 3.5 as a UFA no one should be upset if thats all he does

Agreed generally, but Benning and the organization were clearly expecting more when they signed him to drop him in on the top line.

Ferland is a solid 25-point 3rd liner who can add some physicality who has been put in absurd situations the past two years which have inflated his numbers.

 

[RandV]

On the first point. To be expected when Neiderreiter and Lindholm are the replacements No?

Ferland is a 3rd liner who can bump up when skating and handling the puck with confidence and late in games he can provide some push back for all the BS that teams are starting to do behind the play and after the whistles.

I dont think anyone is expecting much more and for 3.5 as a UFA no one should be upset if thats all he does

For early season projections there were people thinking he'd score like 40-50 points, but yes at his contract he's not a hindrance just being a good 3rd line player that can play up.

In my opinion the real concern here is from last season the disparity between the first half of his season and the second half after some injuries took their toll. The player that finished the year is not worth the contract we gave him, so for the Canucks sake you have to hope it was just some lingering injury issues and while crash and bang players wear down quicker Ferland being only 27 can bounce back after having some off season rest.

 

[F A N]

Ferland's linemates actually performed better without him than with him.

Where are you getting this?

 

[tantalum]

For early season projections there were people thinking he'd score like 40-50 points, but yes at his contract he's not a hindrance just being a good 3rd line player that can play up.

In my opinion the real concern here is from last season the disparity between the first half of his season and the second half after some injuries took their toll. The player that finished the year is not worth the contract we gave him, so for the Canucks sake you have to hope it was just some lingering injury issues and while crash and bang players wear down quicker Ferland being only 27 can bounce back after having some off season rest.

You do have to wonder a bit if this isn't David Clarkson part deux....this time with a more reasonable contract. Rugged winger with inflated stats for a couple of years that signs a deal with expectations of solid top 6 play when he just isn't that player. And I point out the contract exception because it's not a killer contract. Even if he's not worth the money it's one you can work around. This one would be pretty low on the list of contract mistakes this GM has made IF it does turn out to be a mistake.

Clarkson turned 30 near the end of his first season with the Leafs. Ferland will turn 28 late this season so you'd hope you get a couple good seasons from him before he breaks down.

 

[F A N]

Well he did better on the top lines. Last year on the Canes the top line didn't care if he was on it or not. Similar for the flames from what I recall...any differences were swamped by luck.

He's not much more than filler on a scoring line. He isn't going to elevate their games. It's a different version of Baerstchi, Pearson etc. But I do believe with the right center on the third line that he can help the bottom 6 and yes be able to move up when needed without causing great harm.

According to Harman Dayal, Ferland on the "Monahan line outscored the opposition by 22 goals (59-37) in over 1,000 minutes with Ferland while getting outscored by five goals when he wasn’t on it." While it was a small sample size and luck could of had been a factor, the difference is the OPPOSITE of what you suggested.

With the Cane, at least in the first half before Ferland got injured, Aho was at his best with Ferland:

When Ferland and Aho are on the ice together at 5-on-5, the Hurricanes have scored 22 goals and have yielded just ten. That’s a 68.75% goals-for percentage, which is the highest rate for any duo on the Hurricanes this season. It even beats out the dynamic Finnish duo of Aho and Teravainen who, when on the ice together, have a 64.44% goals-for rate.
...
At 5-on-5 this season, Aho has played 329:18 without Ferland and has an on-ice corsi-for percentage of 53.78 and goals-for rate of 52.63 (ten goals for, nine goals against). That’s compared to a 57.14 corsi share and 22 goals for and ten against with Ferland in 323:15 of 5-on-5 time. That is an absolutely damning statistic for anyone who thinks that Ferland hasn’t been playing a huge role in Aho’s breakout year.

Again, your recollection does not reflect reality.

Yeah I seem to remember also him putting on points when put with his teams best offensive weapons. Course Wade Brookbank was at something like a 50 goal pace when with the Sedins for a short period of time. Granted, Ferland is a much better player; still think he was carried (offensively) by his line mates. Prob better to put him with guys like Pettersson when Pettersson is hot rather than now.

He's a complimentary player who has proven to be an effective complimentary player on top lines. As I mentioned many times, this obsession with the ability to "carry" or "drive" a line is clouding people's judgment. Ferland reportedly ranked as one of the better forwards in the league in terms of shots from the slot and generating secondary scoring chances. Ask Flames fans and Canes fans whether they felt that Ferland didn't belong on the top line vs he was the best option.

 

[4Twenty]

You do have to wonder a bit if this isn't David Clarkson part deux....this time with a more reasonable contract. Rugged winger with inflated stats for a couple of years that signs a deal with expectations of solid top 6 play when he just isn't that player. And I point out the contract exception because it's not a killer contract. Even if he's not worth the money it's one you can work around. This one would be pretty low on the list of contract mistakes this GM has made IF it does turn out to be a mistake.

Clarkson turned 30 near the end of his first season with the Leafs. Ferland will turn 28 late this season so you'd hope you get a couple good seasons from him before he breaks down.

I liked ferland a lot more when I learned his birthday was 4/20

 

[tantalum]

According to Harman Dayal, Ferland on the "Monahan line outscored the opposition by 22 goals (59-37) in over 1,000 minutes with Ferland while getting outscored by five goals when he wasn’t on it." While it was a small sample size and luck could of had been a factor, the difference is the OPPOSITE of what you suggested.

He's a complimentary player who has proven to be an effective complimentary player on top lines. As I mentioned many times, this obsession with the ability to "carry" or "drive" a line is clouding people's judgment. Ferland reportedly ranked as one of the better forwards in the league in terms of shots from the slot and generating secondary scoring chances. Ask Flames fans and Canes fans whether they felt that Ferland didn't belong on the top line vs he was the best option.

Let's be fair and post other things from the Dayal article.

The Aho and Monahan lines each posted very similar results as far as controlling well north of 50 percent of the shots and scoring chances regardless of whether Ferland was on their line or not — he didn’t have an overwhelmingly positive or negative effect relative to alternative options.

And of course you forgot the kicker on the Monahan stat...

The caveat is that much of that difference was luck driven — Monahan’s line benefited from an unsustainably high 9.9 percent on-ice shooting clip to go along with incredible .936 goaltending with Ferland on their line and were rather unlucky with the same percentages when he wasn’t on their line. Given that this isn’t a huge sample of minutes, there’s no doubt that luck normalization would bridge the gap.

Ferland had a very high shooting percentage two years in Calgary. Shooting at over 14%. Career average is just over 10%. Unlike Dayal I don't have much time with the suggestion that Ferland is truly a clinical finisher. But hey maybe he is truly adept at banging home things other people create. What is known is he is not a driver for a line (something else Dayal mentions). He doesn't create those chances for himself and relies on them being created by his teammates. Problem is...the canucks are the worst team in the league for generating those chances (Carolina was the best, Calgary middle of the road).

I would argue that his success was the result of some very specific circumstances that catered directly to his game. Circumstances that don't seem ot be present on the canucks. Heck it's even pointed out in the same article that Eriksson is a similar type player...banging home chances from down low but not one that creates those chances. We've seen how well his game translated to this team. He isn't going to do anything more than several other options. That doesn't mean he can't have some utility and be a useful player or even that he can't play in the top 6. But he isn't going to elevate the play of his linemates and his abilities might be better used to help a third line playing in softer minutes.

 

[sting101]

Agreed generally, but Benning and the organization were clearly expecting more when they signed him to drop him in on the top line.

Ferland is a solid 25-point 3rd liner who can add some physicality who has been put in absurd situations the past two years which have inflated his numbers.

I dont get this comment. Coaches play players where they feel it helps their teams the most. If Ferland helped Aho TT and JG and SM get a bit more respect room or confidence instead of the extra cross check in the back or something regrettably worse or he just played decent which he reportedly did then he was not in an absurd situation.

It's not like those 2 teams put him on the half wall to QB their PPs. It's the reality of the NHL that the 3rd spot on the top2 lines is usually a guy that does some heavy lifting. Ferland has done reasonable well there. The Stanley cup champs just rolled Sammy Blais on the top line for some sandpaper and compete, the Leafs do the same with Zach Hyman its not really absurd if he can do the job. Nothing i've read has said he was terrible at it. Lets give him a chance. In all honesty he is getting paid like a 25pt 3rd liner with his toughness.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

To be fair Ferland hasn’t played poorly, the first line has been out of sync and that’s due to lack of chemistry because of contrasting styles and not enough time together. IMO Ferland should start generating more on the 2nd or 3rd line playing a simplified game. Pettersson and Boeser need to step it up, elite players excel regardless of who they play with.

 

[timw33]

. Coaches play players where they feel it helps their teams the most. If Ferland helped Aho TT and JG and SM get a bit more respect room or confidence instead of the extra cross check in the back or something regrettably worse or he just played decent which he reportedly did then he was not in an absurd situation.

That a) assumes NHL coaching is an efficient system where all decisions are the correct ones and b) makes the case that Ferland would stop a linemate from getting hurt, which is absolutely ridiculous and a completely regressive thought process for modern hockey.

 

[VanJack]

How is that the Canucks consistently overrate and overpay for players via trades and free agency? The list is mind-numbing. Eriksson was a consistent 30-goal scorer: Sutter a legitimate second-line center; Gudbranson and Sbisa were capable of being top four d-men; Vey was an 'overlooked scoring gem' in the Kings organization; Gagner was pp ace; and Del Zotto, Pouliot and Pedan were NHL d-men in waiting. I didn't put J.T.Miller on the list because it's still early. But check back 20 games from now.

I mean as the old saying goes, 'even a blind squirrel can stumble on an acorn once and awhile'. But sadly, not in the Canucks executive booth.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

How is that the Canucks consistently overrate and overpay for players via trades and free agency? The list is mind-numbing. Eriksson was a consistent 30-goal scorer: Sutter a legitimate second-line center; Gudbranson and Sbisa were capable of being top four d-men; Vey was an 'overlooked scoring gem' in the Kings organization; Gagner was pp ace; and Del Zotto, Pouliot and Pedan were NHL d-men in waiting. I didn't put J.T.Miller on the list because it's still early. But check back 20 games from now.

I mean as the old saying goes, 'even a blind squirrel can stumble on an acorn once and awhile'. But sadly, not in the Canucks executive booth.

Because the single biggest and most crucial failing Benning and his pals have is they're really, really bad at assessing talent and the prices they should pay for it. Miller looks solid, although he bloody well better be after trading a 1st, a 3rd and an AHL goalie for him. The tidal wave of crap? Yeah, they just suck at identifying good hockey players. There's no way around it.

 

[y2kcanucks]

On the first point. To be expected when Neiderreiter and Lindholm are the replacements No?

Ferland is a 3rd liner who can bump up when skating and handling the puck with confidence and late in games he can provide some push back for all the BS that teams are starting to do behind the play and after the whistles.

I dont think anyone is expecting much more and for 3.5 as a UFA no one should be upset if thats all he does

That's fair, but I don't get the impression that the Canucks believe they signed a 3rd liner. IF he's deployed on the top line every game, or even in the top six regularly, that's a problem.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Who cares. He has played two games for anew team/ coach and lost 10 pounds due to the flu. Of course he has sucked ‍

Guess you missed the “it’s only been 2 games” part huh?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

That's fair, but I don't get the impression that the Canucks believe they signed a 3rd liner. IF he's deployed on the top line every game, or even in the top six regularly, that's a problem.

He’s on 3rd line tonight.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The rumour I saw stated Ferland's camp was talking to Canes management about an extension, not about Tulsky specifically. Isn't Tulsky involved with player personnel?

I apologize for not responding to this as I was traveling and missed this post. Tulsky is involved in player personnel, but according to him (and maybe he's being modest), he gives his input but the GM owns 97% of player personnel decisions. I'm not sure how aggressively the Canes actually pursued re-signing Ferland, regardless of the rumors. He got injured early in the season and once Nino was acquired, his role was reduced. He quickly got out of favor with Brind'Amour (who is also involved in player personnel decisions) because of his inability to stay in the line-up and leaving a few games mid game. By the deadline, the Canes were actually looking to move him, but there wasn't much of a market (rightfully so) due to his injuries and they kept him as an "own rental".

Ferland was great when he first got to Carolina. I'm not sure if it was injuries, a reduced role after Nino, concerns about his next contract, or what, but his effectiveness diminished to the point where he was on the 4th line (when healthy) at the end of the playoffs and the Canes didn't even try to re-sign him. I like Ferland though. He can bring an element of physicality, yet still with skill and scoring ability and that is valuable.

I get concerned about injuries though. One poster on the Canes board said it like this: "In order for Ferland to be effective, he needs to play a physical game. Unfortunately, playing a physical game causes injuries and if he doesn't play that way, he's not effective."

At the salary you are paying him, it's not a big deal and I wouldn't over-react to a couple of games. With some long term security now, I hope he plays like he did when he first got to Carolina.

 

[Bougieman]

Could it be that Michael Ferland is finally shaking off the rust from missing most of preseason with the flu, and not finding any early chemistry with his linemates? He's gone from a player I honestly didn't even realize was on the roster on most nights, to a player that still isn't a difference maker or anything, but at least he's actually getting involved. Maybe this is the beginning of the turn-around?

Note: 3 points in his last 2 games, and in the last 4 games he's clearly starting to inspire confidence in the coaching staff more, because his shifts per game have gone from 11, to 15, to 18, to 22.

Not saying it's time to start buying those Ferland jerseys, but I do think after 11 games, maybe in the next few contests we're finally going to get a better and more accurate idea of what we have in Mr Ferland

 

[MS]

Could it be that Michael Ferland is finally shaking off the rust from missing most of preseason with the flu, and not finding any early chemistry with his linemates? He's gone from a player I honestly didn't even realize was on the roster on most nights, to a player that still isn't a difference maker or anything, but at least he's actually getting involved. Maybe this is the beginning of the turn-around?

Note: 3 points in his last 2 games, and in the last 4 games he's clearly starting to inspire confidence in the coaching staff more, because his shifts per game have gone from 11, to 15, to 18, to 22.

Not saying it's time to start buying those Ferland jerseys, but I do think after 11 games, maybe in the next few contests we're finally going to get a better and more accurate idea of what we have in Mr Ferland

His last game was his best game by a mile, which is encouraging, but I felt it came from nowhere rather than a progression to get there and that his previous couple games were actually his worst games. Hopefully he can build on it, though.

 

[DFAC]

His last game was his best game by a mile, which is encouraging, but I felt it came from nowhere rather than a progression to get there and that his previous couple games were actually his worst games. Hopefully he can build on it, though.

Really?
I thought he played well in the Washington game

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Really?
I thought he played well in the Washington game

Had a best game against Florida

 

[MS]

Really?
I thought he played well in the Washington game

He had a couple decent shifts in the offensive zone but also some horrible floundering shifts in his own zone.