Confirmed with Link: Michael McLeod re-signs - 1 year, 1.4 mil. AAV

[devilsblood]

He's not below average for a 4th liner, his skating and compete level rivals any 4th liners in the league and beats most of them, along with PKing and playing defensively when needed. Him being so good at faceoffs is the reason he is out there and Jack Hughes being so good in OT is the reason he gets off the ice right after.

If a dishwasher in a restaurant is amazing at one dish, so much so that the Chef has him jump over whenever that dish is ordered, that says nothing about his dishwashing, more about the Chef.

I'm also going to doubt there are many 4th liners(who played any amount of worthwhile minutes) who ranked 2nd on their team in terms of 5v5 assist rate.

 

[devilsblood]

It matters when you are talking in terms of scoring rates. If the line you are giving 3rd line minutes to is scoring at a 4th line rate, that's not good!

Sure, and I did note that that those goals totals did speak to the lack of production from the rest of the roster, most notably the 3rd line.

But the CBGB line was pretty good that year.

 

[Guttersniped]

Wrong.

And Gio was always on the CBGB line. The idea that the line existed before he got there is nonsensical.

Good point though on McLeod taking so many defensive faceoffs. People point to below team average possession metrics, but taking so many defensive faceoffs absolutely plays into it.

I don’t actually understand what you’re saying I’m wrong about.

I don’t say the existed before Gionta got there, I say the exact opposite.

(CBGB includes the initials of all three players, it’s a nickname specifically for their line.)

 

[Ripshot 43]

Yes, and a lot less people would have liked Madden if he didn’t score 20 goals one year.

I’m not comparing the two, Madden was a 3rd line center, but defensive forwards aren’t appreciated for their defense by most fans. Pandolfo* took a ton of shit.

So yeah, they are fondly remembered for the timely goals in the 2012 Playoffs. That happens in sports.

And I don’t know if there has to be more offense, they weren’t the problem in 2012-13.

Gionta shouldn’t have been on the team still in 2015-16 but the org. wasn’t exactly teeming with teeming with talent at the time.

*Also my spellcheck has been drinking again lol. View attachment 726707

 

[Triumph]

I don’t actually understand what you’re saying I’m wrong about.

I don’t say the existed before he got there, I say the exact opposite.

Carter was on the 2013-14 Devils. Even got a camp invite to the 2014-2015 team but left to play in Minnesota instead. Good choice, as it turns out.

 

[Guttersniped]

Carter was on the 2013-14 Devils. Even got a camp invite to the 2014-2015 team but left to play in Minnesota instead. Good choice, as it turns out.

Lol man I really brain farted all that away. Crap.

I throw up those dumb stats too now. Sigh. (It matters to me!)

 

[devilsblood]

I don’t actually understand what you’re saying I’m wrong about.

I don’t say the existed before Gionta got there, I say the exact opposite.

(CBGB includes the initials of all three players, it’s a nickname specifically for their line.)

Ha, pardon my rudeness, I actually thought I was responding to someone else. I should have known given the stats.

But yeah Carter was there the following season.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

When i said CBGB was good, I wasn’t talking about goals. I was talking about a line that could go out against any other players in the league and likely win the possession battle. I think that was a lot more about Deboer giving them a job and telling them how to do it than it was them being good hockey players. Cuz they definitely weren’t good hockey players.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Ryan Carter rocked.

 

[Billdo]

Ryan Carter was the driver of that line and if we could've kept him over the other two I would've but he left for greener pastures I suppose. I loved him though.

 

[Classic Devil]

Ryan Carter rocked.

 

[MadDevil]

 

[Classic Devil]

View attachment 727284

^ I’ve had this saved on my computer for a decade, btw.

 

[Forge]

Is cap friendly accurate in that he's still an RFA next year? Is that because he didn't actually hit ufa this year?

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I remember meeting Ryan Carter after his Devils debut against the Senators back in like 2011. He had a fight that game and I told him "nice fight you beat that guy to a pulp". He responded like "yeah I wouldn't say I beat him to a pulp but thanks anyway man" haha. That was the game we were down 3 to 0 after the 1st period and came back to win in a shootout. We actually were ahead 4 to 3 but Tallinder made a bad play in the last minute and Ottawa tied it. We were deadly in the shootout that year too. I think we won like 13 games and only lost 3 in the shootout that season.



Here is the fight ^ , I must of been a bit starstruck. No one beat anyone in this fight haha

 

[Bleedred]

I forgot how Hartnell was like ''HHEEEEYYYYYYYY!!!!!! LOOK AT THIS SHIT!'' snitching on him to the officials lol.

Briere was probably one of the wimpier Flyers on that team lol. He just did nothing.

 

[Classic Devil]

Is cap friendly accurate in that he's still an RFA next year? Is that because he didn't actually hit ufa this year?

It's because UFA status is dependent on age, and he will still be too young for UFA status next year, even though he was briefly UFA this year. So yes, he will be RFA at end of contract.

 

[Forge]

It's because UFA status is dependent on age, and he will still be too young for UFA status next year, even though he was briefly UFA this year. So yes, he will be RFA at end of contract.

I would have thought that once he wasn't qualified that rfa status would have terminated. So if he had made it to ufa this year, signed with say Pitt on a one year deal, he would have been an rfa again for Pitt? That's crazy. They really stick it to young players lol for some reason I always thought that would have moved them to ufa at that point

 

[devilsblood]

People look at high 50% or low 60% faceoffs as so critical because look at how many faceoffs there are total in a season, but really if you had a league-average 4C out there it's only gonna be like 10% below that. So how much is winning an extra one out of every ten faceoffs worth when not all of them are even in critical situations (especially on this team where Nico and maybe Haula will be taking a lot more critical draws) and fewer actually play into creating offense on the fourth line? Why would you put McLeod out there against Bergeron except in specific situations when Bergeron would be more likely to smoke him after the draw than Nico or Haula?

The problem here is, an average faceoff guy is not taking critical faceoffs against other high end faceoff guys. Put that 50% guy in those spots and his % drops.

And it's also not about "winning an extra one out of ten faceoffs", it's about giving your self the best chance to win the more critical ones. We all know some faceoffs barely matter. We should also all know that some faceoffs are very important.

 

[My3Sons]

The problem here is, an average faceoff guy is not taking critical faceoffs against other high end faceoff guys. Put that 50% guy in those spots and his % drops.

And it's also not about "winning an extra one out of ten faceoffs", it's about giving your self the best chance to win the more critical ones. We all know some faceoffs barely matter. We should also all know that some faceoffs are very important.

Beyond that not all faceoff wins are the same which is th real problem with the stat. It’s way oversimplified. A clean win is dramatically different than a scrum where someone eventually Carrie’s the puck a bit covered by someone. The stat as kept doesn’t account at all for that.

 

[devilsblood]

Beyond that not all faceoff wins are the same which is th real problem with the stat. It’s way oversimplified. A clean win is dramatically different than a scrum where someone eventually Carrie’s the puck a bit covered by someone. The stat as kept doesn’t account at all for that.

I don't know if I'd say it's "the real problem" with the stat, I don't think it's that big a deal, it's a factor to consider though.

Like many stats I'd like to see how they break down further into more specific game situations. Say 3rd period, defensive zone faceoff % while leading. Or even more specific, last 5 minutes, 2 minutes, final minute, of the 3rd.

Would love to see possession #'s based off those situations as well.

 

[Classic Devil]

I would have thought that once he wasn't qualified that rfa status would have terminated. So if he had made it to ufa this year, signed with say Pitt on a one year deal, he would have been an rfa again for Pitt? That's crazy. They really stick it to young players lol for some reason I always thought that would have moved them to ufa at that point

Yep, that’s exactly how it would have worked.

 

[Guttersniped]

I would have thought that once he wasn't qualified that rfa status would have terminated. So if he had made it to ufa this year, signed with say Pitt on a one year deal, he would have been an rfa again for Pitt? That's crazy. They really stick it to young players lol for some reason I always thought that would have moved them to ufa at that point

No, even if they pick a player out of a garbage can they magically become an RFA again.

Not qualified, bought out, contract terminated, waived.

 

[My3Sons]

I don't know if I'd say it's "the real problem" with the stat, I don't think it's that big a deal, it's a factor to consider though.

Like many stats I'd like to see how they break down further into more specific game situations. Say 3rd period, defensive zone faceoff % while leading. Or even more specific, last 5 minutes, 2 minutes, final minute, of the 3rd.

Would love to see possession #'s based off those situations as well.

My guess is if they tracked clean wins and what happened off of them and where they happened it would change the perception of faceoffs and when they matter.