Prospect Info: Michael McCarron

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Habsddicted

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Jan 18, 2018
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I won't act condescending if you refrain from using strawman arguments, deal?

It would be also really swell if you'd realize that my reaction was due in the first place to your action. Or you can go on and play the victim card.

Your reaction was due to my action? Excuse me for using the expression "natural abilities" and forcing you to make a bunch of posts about biology to show your credencials and then say you didn't mean to derail the topic.

I'm done.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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Everything you said here is true to a certain extent, but as I said there is so much more to it. I'm not quite sure wether you're trying to argue with me or strengthen what I say as my point was that there was more to making the NHL then just putting in the "required" effort and training.

And yes I agree to a degree. It depends on the context and individual. In certain cases, im pretty sure, if we had access to all the relevant data, that we could claim a certain player could've made it further if he had more discipline.

The subject is extremely complicated. The needed data to actually see what went wrong is obscure to us. But I'm amazed that people broach the subject without expecting the obvious and overwhelming complexity to be brought up in its finer details.

Imo, this is where the future of development lies. In understanding how to help overall cognitive skills so that players adapt better to the speed and play of the league. There are definitely ways to make players better at that age and it's not just about practicing one thing or another, but further develop certain mental skills that converge to better play reading and reaction which will become even more central as time goes by and the stock keeps getting better in a fairly static league in terms of number of teams.
 
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Sorinth

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Untalented players make the NHL because they were at the right place at the right time or do **** the right people's ****. There's many hard worker players in Europe with the same level of skills as Jordie Benn or Brian Schlemko. Darren Dietz is killing the KHL. Pretty sure he can do as well as Schlemko. From what i can remember he was not afraid to work anyway not more than Schlemko is (doesn't mean much since Schlemko is not working very hard).

Once you are labelled as a NHL player you can surf on the wave for a long time without being particularly good. And being labelled as a NHL player is often for guys like the ones mentioned before more a matter of luck than anything else. Injuries to other players. Coach liking your personality. Your brother being the best player of the team. Etc...

Tom Pyatt's career would have probably been shorter without Guy Boucher. Nothing to do with how hard he worked.

Well Dietz did play in the NHL and I'd be very surprised if a team doesn't offer him a 2-way contract and give him another chance.

Many of those good European players don't want to come over and work their way through the AHL. So if it's a question about being willing to put in the necessary work then surely not be willing to move to NA without a guarantee of NHL is part of that.

You're replying to me replying to someone saying people who didn't get to the NHL were lazy, maybe you should get off your high horse.

Nobody has claimed those who didn't make the NHL are lazy.
 

Sorinth

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Everything you said here is true to a certain extent, but as I said there is so much more to it. I'm not quite sure wether you're trying to argue with me or strengthen what I say as my point was that there was more to making the NHL then just putting in the "required" effort and training.

Implicit to the working hard is also working smart. So it's not just about how many hours you put in but the quality of those hours too.

The difference between being a great player vs a depth player will be in how good you were at in acquiring the mental skills (Hockey IQ), and it's not well understood how to improve that besides playing hockey more. But you don't need a high hockey iq to become an NHL player.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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One last thing I'd like to add which is central to the whole understanding of the process is that learned behavior is central to drive the whole array of mental and physical development. Behavior is the key starting point. Starting specific training at a very early age helps greatly too. Almost all the prodigies started very early and were mostly all very hard workers. Their behavior and drive were centralized towards hockey at a very young age. The perception of the missteps at that age is extremely detrimental with the old paradigm that still persists, of believing it means they don't have "natural abilities" when all is needed at that age is just to teach perserverance and determination, but done with care and passion. Parents often go the other way. They are brought to think that if there's no early quick adaptation, their kid won't be as great as tgey think, and their kid probably won't either, because most people just don't kniw what they're doing went it comes to this. People often have the wrong perception and wrong framework to offer to their kids. Parenting is like anything else. You need to have received care and compassion to be able to teach the same in turn.

One of my nieces is seemingly an early prodigy in her sport. She's 7 and already 2 years ahead of her peers. Her mother practiced the same sport (as her own mother did) but didnt go all the way because her passion was a bit squashed by an overzealous parent. My niece has a great social environment. Her parents are ALWAYS there, every practice. Both are very passionate about that sport and both have transmitted this passion and love for that sport. It takes highly caring and dedicated parents to create sports prodigies.
 

Teufelsdreck

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I expected more from McCarron. He came from a good college development program .Yes. his skating isn't great, but the same could be said of many draftees,
 

Habs Halifax

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Interesting approach in terms drafting.... Habs were high on McCarron and took him early. Who did we miss out on in terms of BPA? Theodore or Lehkonen? :sarcasm:
 

puckeater

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Dec 3, 2005
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Interesting approach in terms drafting.... Habs were high on McCarron and took him early. Who did we miss out on in terms of BPA? Theodore or Lehkonen? :sarcasm:
Adam Erne from their own backyard seems to be contributing to the club that drafted him...thems the grapes.
 

Habs Halifax

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Adam Erne from their own backyard seems to be contributing to the club that drafted him...thems the grapes.

21 pts in 75 games so far. Dime a dozen type asset. Yeah, he has 14 in 26 games this year. He's not much more of an asset than Hudon. Give me McCarron or Erne. Who cares. We got Armia. Bottom 6 depth all day long.

Theodore and Lehkonen are the hits from 25 to the end of the 2nd round. Habs got one of them and yeah, we could of got both.
 

Habs Halifax

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I expected more from McCarron. He came from a good college development program .Yes. his skating isn't great, but the same could be said of many draftees,

- I became disappointed with McCarron in his draft +1 year where he made the move to the OHL. 34 pts in 66 games as a 18 year old.

- He did have a solid season as a 19 year old but was not good enough to crack the US U20 roster. More disappointment but he still had a decent OHL season.

- I then thought he would be a good C/RW option in our bottom 6 or 4th line in the last 2 years. More disappointment.

The best thing on his resume is his age 19 season split with London and Oshawa. 41 pts in 25 games with London and 27 pts in 31 games with Oshawa (18 pts in 21 playoff games). That's it. Everything else has been a disappointment in his development.

He's not smart enough to use his big frame to his advantage down low. He's a gentile giant with below average skating and edge work. His offensive skills are average.
 

puckeater

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Well we all remember the impact Lucic had on that era's Bruins team and we wanted our own version of him. He was supposed to fill that role. They took a chance and it didn't work as planned. Hopefully they can salvage him into an asset on the ice or on the market.
 

Sorinth

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- I became disappointed with McCarron in his draft +1 year where he made the move to the OHL. 34 pts in 66 games as a 18 year old.

- He did have a solid season as a 19 year old but was not good enough to crack the US U20 roster. More disappointment but he still had a decent OHL season.

- I then thought he would be a good C/RW option in our bottom 6 or 4th line in the last 2 years. More disappointment.

The best thing on his resume is his age 19 season split with London and Oshawa. 41 pts in 25 games with London and 27 pts in 31 games with Oshawa (18 pts in 21 playoff games). That's it. Everything else has been a disappointment in his development.

He's not smart enough to use his big frame to his advantage down low. He's a gentile giant with below average skating and edge work. His offensive skills are average.

He started off in the AHL with 24 points in 28 games before his first call up, so to say everything except his time in London was a disappointment seems harsh.

He did have a weak D+1 year, but the problems really began with that first NHL call up, he got sent back down and immediately slumped with 4 points in his next 16 games. He started to get back on track with 6 points in the next 10 and got called up again. Which began a cycle of him coming up and going down.

They rushed him to the NHL and he's never been the same since. The constant yo-yo-ing and dumb coaches comments (Don't focus on offence because you will be a bottom-six player) was just a horrible development approach and unsurprisingly looks to have hurt him.

He might be getting back on track, he has 15 points in his last 14 games. So for the love of God don't call him up. Let him finish the year in the AHL and hopefully prove this latest stretch isn't just a hot streak but that he can consistently play at that kind of level.
 
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Habs Halifax

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He started off in the AHL with 24 points in 28 games before his first call up, so to say everything except his time in London was a disappointment seems harsh.

He did have a weak D+1 year, but the problems really began with that first NHL call up, he got sent back down and immediately slumped with 4 points in his next 16 games. He started to get back on track with 6 points in the next 10 and got called up again. Which began a cycle of him coming up and going down.

They rushed him to the NHL and he's never been the same since. The constant yo-yo-ing and dumb coaches comments (Don't focus on offence because you will be a bottom-six player) was just a horrible development approach and unsurprisingly looks to have hurt him.

He might be getting back on track, he has 15 points in his last 14 games. So for the love of God don't call him up. Let him finish the year in the AHL and hopefully prove this latest stretch isn't just a hot streak but that he can consistently play at that kind of level.

Time is ticking on him. He knows this and Bouchard as his coach helps. Habs don't need him on our roster so I think he plays AHL all year. Lets see if he can continue to gain confidence and produce in the 2nd half and possibly in the AHL playoffs.
 

Habs Halifax

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He started off in the AHL with 24 points in 28 games before his first call up, so to say everything except his time in London was a disappointment seems harsh.

Scherbak had 30 pts in 26 AHL games last year. Domi started the year at a 1+ pt/game production. Galchenyuk had 23 pts in 25 games playing with Radulov and Patch in 2016. Mete looked like our best prospect when he started the year last season.

Show me a full season at the very least. A hockey season is long and you need to grind it out to prove yourself.

The Habs have stock piled prospects and the depth on our NHL roster is decent (except at LD). It's time to let our kids play in the AHL and prove themselves over the long haul vs a 1/4 season sample size and we call them up prematurely

I bet you Evans gets called up if Kotkaniemi was not in the picture.
 

Sorinth

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Scherbak had 30 pts in 26 AHL games last year. Domi started the year at a 1+ pt/game production. Galchenyuk had 23 pts in 25 games playing with Radulov and Patch in 2016. Mete looked like our best prospect when he started the year last season.

Show me a full season at the very least. A hockey season is long and you need to grind it out to prove yourself.

The Habs have stock piled prospects and the depth on our NHL roster is decent (except at LD). It's time to let our kids play in the AHL and prove themselves over the long haul vs a 1/4 season sample size and we call them up prematurely

I bet you Evans gets called up if Kotkaniemi was not in the picture.

Agreed 20-30 games isn't enough, which is why I even said I want to see him spend the rest of the year down there so he can prove his current 15 game stretch of great production isn't just a hot streak.

But when looking at his development, I don't see a guy who simply had one good year in juniors and every other season was a disappointment. I see a guy who was a project when drafted who was on a good development path until they started to call him up to early sacrificing his development for the short term wants of being a bigger team.

At the draft he was a project player who showed flashes of upside but had lots of question marks. His D+1 year overall was disappointing, but there was improvement during the season. He was a better player at the end of the season then he was at the beginning of it which is basically what you want to see from a project. His D+2 year was a big leap forward and again he was a better player at the end of the year then he was at the beginning. So at this point he's on a solid development path, wasn't where we hoped he was on draft day but improved to a point where he was now a very good looking prospect.

He starts his pro career with a bang and halfway through the year is looking like not only a lock to be an NHLer but probably a middle-six guy. Then we dick around with his development and he no longer looks like such a sure thing, he's regresses until he looks like a bit of a long shot to have an NHL career.

This isn't a case of a player simply plateauing and not getting better, this is a guy who was on a good path getting better year after year until something happens and he starts becoming worse year after year.

You can see it in his production, you can even see it in his penalty minutes, he went from 1.5 penalty minutes per game his first year in the AHL to well over 2 in the following years. He was focusing on being mean, hitting guys, fighting, etc... instead of continuing to develop his skills which is exactly what our brilliant coaches told him to do. And surprise surprise, focusing on being tough at the expense of your skills is terrible for your development. This year he's gotten back to around 1.5 penalty minutes per game, and we are starting to see his offensive game again.

Hopefully it's not too late for him, but those years where we screwed with his development hurt.
 
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scrubadam

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Nah this guy was just to slow and big for the NHL today.

Took a flyer on him and he busted thems the breaks. Lots of guys drafted in the late rounds bust lets not pretend its some sort of strange phenomenon.

He had plenty of chances to grab the bull by the horn and failed each and every time. Don't care what he did in D+1 or in the AHL or in his backyard, what matters is what you do at the NHL level and he didn't bring much of anything and even his size wasn't useful. The guy could of turned himself into an FO specalists and had a spot on this team.
 

GSP2018

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All of you nay sayers are going to be disappointed i think I have heard ( not sure if its true or not )that Bouchard has taken it on himself to put big Mac back in NHL. I Expect to see him back in the NHL
 
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26Mats

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All of you nay sayers are going to be disappointed i think I have heard ( not sure if its true or not )that Bouchard has taken it on himself to put big Mac back in NHL. I Expect to see him back in the NHL

The problem is you have to be a really good skater now to even be on the 4th line. Is McCarron a good enough skater for today's NHL? Can he think the game quick enough and "play fast", as our team currently tries to do?
 

sandviper

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The problem is you have to be a really good skater now to even be on the 4th line. Is McCarron a good enough skater for today's NHL? Can he think the game quick enough and "play fast", as our team currently tries to do?

I mostly agree with your points though honestly, he doesn't need to think and process the game fast... just keep his role simple. Bang bodies, crowd the net and skate straight lines. I think he can be serviceable doing that.

Now, skating fast, that was an issue before. I haven't watched Laval games so I don't know if he has progressed here.
 

Runner77

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I don't know how much Bouchard can get out of him but if he becomes interesting enough for a western team to take him off the Habs hands, we may get a pick out of it rather than losing him for nothing next year.
 
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GSP2018

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I mostly agree with your points though honestly, he doesn't need to think and process the game fast... just keep his role simple. Bang bodies, crowd the net and skate straight lines. I think he can be serviceable doing that.

Now, skating fast, that was an issue before. I haven't watched Laval games so I don't know if he has progressed here.
It has improved a lot
 

GSP2018

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I don't know how much Bouchard can get out of him but if he becomes interesting enough for a western team to take him off the Habs hands, we may get a pick out of it rather than losing him for nothing next year.

Right now he is better than Hudon and Deslaurier imo. For what thats worth i guess
 
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