Player Discussion Michael Del Zotto signs 2 year contract with Ottawa, $2M AAV

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Ya, you beat my ninja edit,

From a concept perspective it wasn't a bad idea to get a good mentor for the young centers, and the kids said they learned a lot from him, but from an on ice perspective it was a disaster. We should have known he was pretty much done imo, but him also getting hurt for most of the season meant no chance at recouping some value at the deadline, maybe retaining 50% a team might have taken him as a 4th line center and thrown us a pick

I was fine with it at the time for the exact same reason - thinking he'd be a calming presence who could be cheaply retained on and flipped for roughly equivalent value.

How wrong we were.

In Ottawa Typical fashion, though, I am sure he will go on to have another 5 solid yrs as a bottom-6er on playoff teams.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't think people necessarily have an issue with the opening day line-up.

I think the concern was around how long it took before they realized that what they were doing wasn't working in a shortened season. A dozen games seems reasonable in an 82 game season, but in a 56 game season, we were cooked before any changes were made.

The season was a bit of a blur, but I can remember Brady Tkachuk being rather miffed publicly after his line dominated the game and then was left off the ice for the final 5 minutes of a loss.

Eh, wins were very much secondary as a focus last season, what was working is relative to what the goals were for the team.

Kids were being sheltered and given less ice time due to a focus on development, like it or lump it. Even when they could have played more, they were kept to the slow and steady development plan. It certainly was hard to watch some nights, but I guess when you’re playing the long game the short team pain isn’t as important.

We also had a massive road trip to start the season, and given the sheer number of new players on the team and zero camp and preseason, learning the system and Sens brand team play had some very obvious growing pains.

I have pretty much moved on from that part of the season because the kids slowly got better, got more ice time, the system implemented began to become apparent, and the goaltending became very solid. All very promising developments to round out a season based on development.

 

[Ice-Tray]

650k! That is pretty funny though. A bad trade at the time that went about as badly as it possibly could have.


Fair enough - as a fan, I agree that the period where we were dressing Paquette, Coburn, Stepan, Galchenyuk, Gudbranson, Anisimov, Peca, Haley was....pretty brutal and soul-crushing to watch.

I still get what they were doing, though, as annoying as it was to endure.

It reminds me of play Eastside Hockey Manager back in the day. Last year was a season that you don’t play out manually, you sim that shit once everyone is in positions. Lol

 

[Micklebot]

I was fine with it at the time for the exact same reason - thinking he'd be a calming presence who could be cheaply retained on and flipped for roughly equivalent value.

How wrong we were.

In Ottawa Typical fashion, though, I am sure he will go on to have another 5 solid yrs as a bottom-6er on playoff teams.

I was fine with the idea of acquiring him, but flabbergasted that we paid a 2nd. Made no sense to me we'd pay that much and I absolutely don't buy the excuse that we got it right back in the transaction with Tbay, one is not contingent on the other, it's not like you need to balance out good decisions with bad ones.

MDZ seems like the same concept only on D and we learned not to pay a 2nd this time around. Hope he proves to be a good mentor for the young D,

 

[NyQuil]

I was fine with the idea of acquiring him, but flabbergasted that we paid a 2nd. Made no sense to me we'd pay that much and I absolutely don't buy the excuse that we got it right back in the transaction with Tbay, one is not contingent on the other, it's not like you need to balance out good decisions with bad ones.

MDZ seems like the same concept only on D and we learned not to pay a 2nd this time around. Hope he proves to be a good mentor for the young D,

On principle, I don't really have a problem with acquiring anyone provided the asking price isn't too steep.

But that is based on another fundamental principle whereby you have to continuously earn your spot on a young team, even if you are a veteran.

I think it sends the wrong message to have underperforming guys in the line-up when there are better players available.

 

[Ice-Tray]

On principle, I don't really have a problem with acquiring anyone provided the asking price is to steep.

But that is based on another fundamental principle whereby you have to continuously earn your spot on a young team, even if you are a veteran.

I think it sends the wrong message to have underperforming guys in the line-up when there are better players available.

I also wouldn't have extended DJ Smith either, but perhaps I just don't understand how the head coaching gig works.

I don't think there's a lot of competition for his services, I think he put together a decent but extremely small sample of games by the end of the season, but he hasn't run a camp and the first quarter of the season is some of the worst Senators hockey I've seen since expansion.

But this wasn’t really the set up last season. Those guys were fillers while each kid was on a personal development path of mastery. Norris got incremental ice time and situation increases as he mastered those he had, none of it was contingent in Stepan or Tierny whose job it was to soak up ice time until Norris could handle more.

They were extremely cautious with the deployment of all the kids and wasn’t based on the play of others.

DJ and/or PD was explaining that the team was almost full now, probably by the end of this season, and that it was going to start being extremely difficult for subsequent players and prospects to crack the roster. Detroit was mentioned as an example of how by the time the team had matured, prospects had to play a few years in the AHL and then had to beat another player out of a roster spot.

That’s where we’re almost at, but we weren’t there to start the season last year.

Again, it’s fair to debate the effectiveness of the approach, but it was a planned approach for the most part. For the fans it’s kind of a no pain no gain feeling to start the season lol…. There was pain, and thankfully there was gain!

 

[Crosside]

Hmm. 4 or 5 offers, likes DJ and the way we play, was looking for teams that had holes where he could fit, saw us as a perfect fit, Ottawa was high on his list. Also mentioned that when you get to the higher tier, earning ~8 mil they look at taxes and cost of living but for him, opportunity was the most important thing.

Trains with Conner Brown in the summer,

Seems pretty easy going, good speaker.

When I listen the interview. He remember me Watson

He said he appreciate DJ and Dorion make research about him the person. He said no other team make this

 

[Xspyrit]

It's crazy and I used to be damn wrong about this. The "defendors at all cost" are actually worse than the "negative nancies at all costs".

I mean I have been positive, optimistic or praised the Sens as much as anybody, and probably even more than many. How is it possible that I am not allowed to share one freaking critic? This is absolute madness.

You dare to criticize anything this organization does and they jump on your throat like crazy. It's actually pretty entertaining. I mean, if the Ottawa Senators didn't do anything in the last 4 years to deserve any criticism, then actually nothing should ever be criticized lol

You didn’t know anything about Zub, let’s be real.

your post makes no sense in reply to what he’s saying

lol sure. I have posts about Zub before the NHL. I have literally said exactly that (highlighted below)

Xspyrit, Jun 11, 2020

Top-4 D-men (need 4 to succeed) :

Thomas Chabot
Erik Brannstrom
Jacob Bernard Docker
Lassi Thomson
Christian Wolanin
Isles 1st round pick?
Artyom Zub

Bottom-3 D-men (need 2-3 to succeed) :

Mike Reilly
Olle Alsing
Max Lajoie
Christian Jaros
Maxence Guenette
Jonny Tychonick

Xspyrit, Jul 2020 comments :

Artyom Zub was never drafted and will be a NHL player right away.

A guy like Zub will be ~12-15 and he has 7 KHL seasons under his belt and is a significant player over there, also plays for his national team.

Lajoie should be a fine 3rd pairing D-man but Zub has much more pedigree now and is most likely to be a good/decent 2nd pairing D-man. I don't see Lajoie reaching that level.

I know it's "just the KHL" but from what I have read, Zub was very highly regarded there.

Also, Artyom Zub looks like a good bet to do well in the NHL. He's very well regarded in the KHL and already has a lot of pro experience for his age. Seems to have the qualities of today's NHL D-men

I have read a lot of praise for Zub, seems pretty well regarded in the KHL so it's all a matter of transition to NA. People seem to think he's likely to translate well. I wanted to vote him #11.

Zub is a sure thing. He didn't come to NA to play in the AHL. So assuming he doesn't struggle in transition, he will play in the NHL next season. If he adapts well, he will most likely be one of the best 4 D-men on the Sens

Ok we need to start spreading information on some of these prospects

Good read on Zub :

Introducing Artyom Zub: His career, setting expectations, and the fit with Ottawa

"Let's be real" lol. And if my posts makes no sense, you need to read and re-read again and again, maybe you'll eventually get it.

 

[Cosmix]

We're not paying him like a top anything so not sure why that would even cross your mind as a possibility.

The reason is that the Melnyk promise of FYOUS is not going to be achieved if the team continues to sign lesser UFAs rather than the higher end UFAs that this team needs to fulfill that promise. The same logic applies to the #1 Center position.

 

[NyQuil]

The reason is that the Melnyk promise of FYOUS is not going to be achieved if the team continues to sign lesser UFAs rather than the higher end UFAs that this team needs to fulfill that promise. The same logic applies to the #1 Center position.

Bleh, even I wrote FYOUS off when COVID-19 hit.

Call it a sigh of relief for Melnyk but I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

 

[Cosmix]

Bleh, even I wrote FYOUS off when COVID-19 hit.

Call it a sigh of relief for Melnyk but I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

Replace FYOUS with putting a quality team on the ice that can make the playoffs and perhaps some day soon challenge for the SC. The cost-cutting and trading away quality players is not consistent with putting a quality team on the ice.

 

[NyQuil]

Replace FYOUS with putting a quality team on the ice that can make the playoffs and perhaps some day soon challenge for the SC. The cost-cutting and trading away quality players is not consistent with putting a quality team on the ice.

So far he hasn’t been shy about spending money as far as this incarnation of the Sens.

I think we’ll know more when we see the contracts and term of the RFAs on deck.

 

[Golden_Jet]

"Who is this 6.5 AAV player"? Are you trolling?

Why some people would basically do anything to defend this organization (owned by Eugene Melnyk of all people) at all costs is beyond me

I mean, what happened the last 4 years speaks for itself. But it's more in the way it happened and just the way Melnyk carries himself, I don't need to re-write history. Dorion was a super green GM and made several moves that blew up in his face. It's not like I am making things up and inventing that opinion to criticize Ottawa. It's shared by a lot of people (particularly outside of Sens fans). I mean, people have literally been LAUGHING at the Ottawa Senators (and still do), do you realize that?

As for Brannstrom, unless I don't remember correctly, he has been scratched and even sent in the AHL AFTER he played some games in the NHL, which was after his covid recovery.

Anyway, I'm sorry, I hope I didn't break your heart for criticizing this organization. Sigh.

Ok

 

[Xspyrit]

You're presenting a false choice here. It wasnt about tanking, or about icing the best possible team - it was about sheltering young guys, giving the vets a stake in the team, setting a style of play, and implementing structure. Zub doesnt know the language and theyre going to throw him into a slightly-smaller-than-he's-used-to burning building right off the bat?

DJ and Dorion both made awful move in the process - no disagreement there - but it was all in service of implementing structure into a very young team.

Yes I understand the steak philosophy. But could you tell me with a straight face that they hired the best possible veterans? Or that the Stepan/Balcers moves were smart?

There was no structure for a while at the beginning of the season. The hockey systems were seriously flawed, and I have heard several ex NHL players specifically talk about this. Hockey is a lot more complex than pushing a puck up the ice, and I know you know that. But like I said, I know there was legit excuses for that (many didn't play in 10 months, lot of roster turnover + no real training camp)

However, I did my mea culpa on this because the team looked much better structurally in the 2nd half of the season, so it actually gave me hope about DJ.

I agree that this "sucking" probably made it easier for several young guys in the end, to "establish" themselves in the league with less pressure. But even though Zub spoke a few more english words, he came exactly at a moment where the team was horrible and it was a desperate call to him "save us"... He and Brannstrom actually did, we were able to get puck out of danger with more ease and that's when they started to turn the ship around.

So it seems we agree more than initially thought. I think you know that both Dorion and DJ made several mistakes last off-season/season. This league is extremely competitive as it is the best in the world, there's not that much margin for error.

The 6.5 aav was Stepan. If his subsequent contract is any indication, even the 2 mil remaining after the bonus was paid was overpaying market value by 650k

Yeah but the market (aka other NHL teams) work with AAV because of the salary cap. Ottawa is one of the very few teams that work with salary. However, covid may have changed some teams' situation

Don't think there was any market at all for Derek Stepan at 6.5 AAV. Who would have paid an asset to get him even if his salary was lower than his AAV?

650k! That is pretty funny though. A bad trade at the time that went about as badly as it possibly could have.

See above. It's not funny, look at the Arizona deals this off-season, they are getting assets for taking on salary/AAV. We paid an asset for Derek Stepan... Teams know Ottawa work with salary only, so they abuse Dorion with that.

Fair enough - as a fan, I agree that the period where we were dressing Paquette, Coburn, Stepan, Galchenyuk, Gudbranson, Anisimov, Peca, Haley was....pretty brutal and soul-crushing to watch.

I still get what they were doing, though, as annoying as it was to endure.

Yeah but did we absolutely need to hire bad players to teach the youth? Wouldn't hiring better players have made it easier to teach them and implement a structure?

 

[Big Muddy]

We never traded a 2nd for Del Zotto so it’s already miles better than the Stepan acquisition in my book.

I didn't say we did. Maybe the Stepan version 2.0 is what got you confused. In other words, MDZ turns out the same as Stepan versus what we gave up to get him.

 

[Yak]

I thought this was a great interview with MDZ on team 1200.

He said a lot of good things and he seems like he will be a great locker room guy.

He understands his role on this team.

He likes DJ's style and played for Torta twice so he is not afraid to play hard.

I liked last year he went to CBJ on PTO and earned a average of 18 mins a night under Torts.

He believes in, you earn your role and your minutes and nothing is given.

He seems like a solid player that is very high character and has a lot of experience to share with our young team.

Hopefully it works out for him, his contract is okay , wish was league Min but if it don't work out am sure those other teams interested in this off-season will pick him up.

 

[Sweatred]

I didn't say we did. Maybe the Stepan version 2.0 is what got you confused. In other words, MDZ turns out the same as Stepan versus what we gave up to get him.

I think it’s fair to anticipate a similair game. We will work his a$$ off and struggle at times…

I thought Stepan was “decent” …there was more passable play in there than most give him credit for… I would have preferred we get a second to take the cap hit but it didn’t work out like that.

I think we will see some similar character wins/losses out of MDZ.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Enough with the off topic rambling, please.

MDZ plays defence for the Ottawa Senators.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I thought this was a great interview with MDZ on team 1200.

He said a lot of good things and he seems like he will be a great locker room guy.

He understands his role on this team.

He likes DJ's style and played for Torta twice so he is not afraid to play hard.

I liked last year he went to CBJ on PTO and earned a average of 18 mins a night under Torts.

He believes in, you earn your role and your minutes and nothing is given.

He seems like a solid player that is very high character and has a lot of experience to share with our young team.

Hopefully it works out for him, his contract is okay , wish was league Min but if it don't work out am sure those other teams interested in this off-season will pick him up.

Thanks, it was a good interview, well spoken as well.

 

[aragorn]

Losing Balcers on waivers in our context is still one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen in the NHL.

Although, I was probably more flabbergasted by giving up a 2nd round pick for a cap dump with a 6.5 AAV. Even more insane when you see that a better player with a lower AAV got Arizona a 2nd and Kolyachonok for taking that 1 season dump. The difference is we were the ones paying that 2nd round pick. I still can't believe it

Also, not sure why it took so long to have Zub, Brannstrom (Edit : yes I know he had covid) and Logan Brown (but got injured) in the lineup if it was to start the season 2-12-1

Sure they had "excuses" but the fact that they thought they were dressing the best possible lineup is scary to say the least.

Thank God our drafting/development is fantastic because without it, we would deserve to be relegated to the AHL.



Like the rest of the roster, goalies were not really "hot" to start the season, but if you really think the bad start was mainly due to their performance, then maybe you don't understand hockey as much as you think, or at least goaltending. Re-watch the games, our D-zone coverage was not NHL level for a while. You just can't give up that much time and space to NHLers, it was ridiculous. Do you want to see some clips to see clearly what I am talking about?

Edit : your opinion always counted a lot for me, so I modified to specify

The defence was bad, the coaching was bad, the whole team sucked to start the season including the goaltending. You also need quality saves from your NHL goaltender from time to time & there are plenty of clips that show our goalies allowing easy saves to go in. Why would they demote the goalie coach, bring in a veteran goalie & then this yr not even qualify Hogberg if they didn't think the goaltending bore some of the blame for the team sucking last yr? It's fairly obvious isn't it? I'm not saying they are completely to blame, but they (Murray & Hogberg) had their own part in it too.

 

[Xspyrit]

The defence was bad, the coaching was bad, the whole team sucked to start the season including the goaltending. You also need quality saves from your NHL goaltender from time to time & there are plenty of clips that show our goalies allowing easy saves to go in. Why would they demote the goalie coach, bring in a veteran goalie & then this yr not even qualify Hogberg if they didn't think the goaltending bore some of the blame for the team sucking last yr? It's fairly obvious isn't it? I'm not saying they are completely to blame, but they (Murray & Hogberg) had their own part in it too.

Goalies were like the rest of the team : rusty and not ready to face the music (particularly Hogberg who was completely off on his angles). I don't know if you remember but Murray actually did really well the first 3 games but IIRC Stepan stupid delay of game penalty allowed the Jets to tie the game 3-3 and then win in OT (was it on a Chabot turnover?). Then the Sens went in a "suck spiral" for a while after that and were getting destroyed on the road.

The defensive coverage, the time and space given, the "free zone access" for rebounds and how easy it was to get in a good position to shoot... Just in the first series against Vancouver (could have posted even more), check these :




Miller caps pretty passing play
Recap: OTT 1, VAN 4
Pettersson buries rebound in 1st
Boeser's second goal of game

Yes, everyone was to blame, I'd say less for inexperienced players because they had no good veterans to shelter them (which was the intended goal in bringing so many vets)

I had "blamed" coaching as well but not sure how much because they had a lot of roster turnover and basically no training camp. Takes time to instill hockey systems and have all the players to buy in and execute it. They made bad personnel decisions though.

Another thing is while maybe the goalie coach change helped, it's not the only thing that helped Murray. The structure in front of him, the "team defense" improved a LOT by the time he came back from injury and that's why he was able to post .954 SV% in 5 games. Ask him privately and he will tell you that it was NIGHT and DAY compared to early in the season. He didn't go from the worst goalie to the best goalie just like that suddenly... As a goalie, that's my analysis anyway

So maybe I didn't read your post correctly but I had the impression you were mostly putting the blame on the goalies... This part in particular made me think that :

"Not much a coach or a defence can do when the goalies are letting beach balls into the net..."

So yes defense shouldn't be blamed for unprovoked bad goals but "team defense" was certainly the reason why we were bleeding so many goals against early in the season, like in these short videos above. In the NHL, you can't afford to gift wrap 3-4 goals per game, it almost always end up in blowouts. We had too many of that early in the season. Fortunately for us, everyone worked hard, the team made some much needed changes and they all turned things around

 

[aragorn]

Goalies were like the rest of the team : rusty and not ready to face the music (particularly Hogberg who was completely off on his angles). I don't know if you remember but Murray actually did really well the first 3 games but IIRC Stepan stupid delay of game penalty allowed the Jets to tie the game 3-3 and then win in OT (was it on a Chabot turnover?). Then the Sens went in a "suck spiral" for a while after that and were getting destroyed on the road.

The defensive coverage, the time and space given, the "free zone access" for rebounds and how easy it was to get in a good position to shoot... Just in the first series against Vancouver (could have posted even more), check these :




Miller caps pretty passing play
Recap: OTT 1, VAN 4
Pettersson buries rebound in 1st
Boeser's second goal of game

Yes, everyone was to blame, I'd say less for inexperienced players because they had no good veterans to shelter them (which was the intended goal in bringing so many vets)

I had "blamed" coaching as well but not sure how much because they had a lot of roster turnover and basically no training camp. Takes time to instill hockey systems and have all the players to buy in and execute it. They made bad personnel decisions though.

Another thing is while maybe the goalie coach change helped, it's not the only thing that helped Murray. The structure in front of him, the "team defense" improved a LOT by the time he came back from injury and that's why he was able to post .954 SV% in 5 games. Ask him privately and he will tell you that it was NIGHT and DAY compared to early in the season. He didn't go from the worst goalie to the best goalie just like that suddenly... As a goalie, that's my analysis anyway

So maybe I didn't read your post correctly but I had the impression you were mostly putting the blame on the goalies... This part in particular made me think that :

"Not much a coach or a defence can do when the goalies are letting beach balls into the net..."

So yes defense shouldn't be blamed for unprovoked bad goals but "team defense" was certainly the reason why we were bleeding so many goals against early in the season, like in these short videos above. In the NHL, you can't afford to gift wrap 3-4 goals per game, it almost always end up in blowouts. We had too many of that early in the season. Fortunately for us, everyone worked hard, the team made some much needed changes and they all turned things around

Clearly not having a pre-season hurt a lot, they could have had much more structure in place if they would have had a pre-season & the goalies as well as defence could have had time to adjust & get up to speed quicker. Maybe the coaches would have had more time to identify the weaknesses & correct them before the season started, who knows? Hopefully, they get off to a better start this yr & I expect by the end of the yr Gustavsson to be the backup & be as good as he was to end last yr.

 

[Big Muddy]

I think it’s fair to anticipate a similair game. We will work his a$$ off and struggle at times…

I thought Stepan was “decent” …there was more passable play in there than most give him credit for… I would have preferred we get a second to take the cap hit but it didn’t work out like that.

I think we will see some similar character wins/losses out of MDZ.

Not sure about the rest of your post (as to what it means), but if the expectation or goal was to get a 2nd from the Yotes versus paying a 2nd, then Dorion should have been walking away from that deal. The "it didn't work out like that" becomes moot at that point as there would be no need for Dorion to continue discussing a trade or any details of a potential trade at that point.

In my mind, the only way Stepan even becomes an trade option or consideration is because we would anticipate getting an additional asset versus just a cap dump (Stepan). If we knew that wasn't going to happen, then Dorion just needed to move on to other (better) alternatives.

Again, I will reiterate, I just hope that MDZ works out better than the Stepan deal. Fingers crossed.

 

[Tuna99]

For Mete, Brann, Holden, MDZ, and Brown, i cant figure out who has the advantage here. But it looks like there will be some great competition to look forward to in camp. Hopefully Brann can win this.

I just don’t see how Mete fits in this team. I know the fans love him but he could be a Balcers type of chow bey - waivers before the season begins. Don’t see him making the team

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I just don’t see how Mete fits in this team. I know the fans love him but he could be a Balcers type of chow bey - waivers before the season begins. Don’t see him making the team

I think he makes it as a 7th D.