Messier vs Yzerman - Better Hockey Player (Career)

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Machinehead, Jan 12, 2019.

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Messier or Yzerman?

Poll closed Jan 22, 2019.
  1. Mark Messier

    53.7%
  2. Steve Yzerman

    46.3%
  1. Neutrinos

    Neutrinos Registered User

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    Messier actually finished tied with Craig Simpson in team playoff scoring, and it was Ranford, not Messier, who took home the Conn Smythe
     
  2. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    No he wasnt', lol.
     
  3. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    1. What? lol

    2. If 80-90 points(and a 107 point campaign) is 'dominant for the Rangers' it's no wonder they have 1 cup in like 60 years. No disrespect to his playoff performance in 94 but you're making his time on the Rags more then it was. Not to mention how pitiful he was during his 2nd stint with them.


    3. Yeah he did well in 90, but post Gretz Oilers were still substantially better then any wings team from the 80's to the point where it's not close.
     
  4. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    And yet you still continue to use that as an excuse while knowing their situations and still ignoring them.....

    Messier was groomed into a second line winger early on, and didn’t hit the ground running until a few years into his career. He then became a second line center with top notch wingers.

    Yzerman on the other hand was drafted on a poor team and was given the keys to it. He became(at the time) the youngest captain and their best/key player very early on.

    Messier was more “complete” because he was given the advantages and opportunities to become one. Yzerman wasn’t. Yzerman was also better offensively IMO, given that he was one of the best players for a good span of time while on garbage teams.

    I understand you like physicality, but your still using things against Yzerman that were simply out of his control. Although still a good defensive player, he had to carry his team year in and year out offensively. Messier never had to do that. Yzerman also became a better defensive player than Messier ever was later on regardless, and his impact helped his team win 3 cups and him a Smythe. Does it really matter that he didn’t do that early on? Especially when you really didn’t have the opportunity to?
     
  5. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    Messier wasn't really more complete on the Oilers though. That team had so much firepower they didn't need to play defense, lol.

    Aside from a few guys like Tikkanen(spelling?) and Kurri who were solid 2 way forwards, the only forward I cant think from the oilers who I'd class as an 'elite defensive forward' is MacTavish.


    Messier and Anderson weren't there to play defense, they were there to score goals.
     
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  6. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    Your the only one who honestly believes Yzermans teams were more stacked. That’s a joke. Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey......those names ring a bell? What line did Messier play on again?

    Messier didn’t carry anyone anywhere. The ‘90 oilers still were an amazing team. Playing with Simpson, Kurri, and Tikkanen.....all having outstanding playoffs, with Simpson leading the team in points and goals(hence why your “carrying” argument is trash). Witu Ranford winning the Smythe. The ‘94 Rangers were also a stacked team.

    You seem to have left out the other half of Yzermans career where he was on poor teams and putting up amazing numbers...why ignore that part?
     
  7. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    Very true. Messier was still a solid defensive player....but his play in his own end is getting greatly exaggerated. He definitely had benefits that Yzerman did not have until much later.
     
  8. DoobieDubas

    DoobieDubas Legalize Hitting Again

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    Favourite player of all time.

    Stevey Y baby
     
  9. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    I mean during the oilers heyday I'd say Gretzky was solid defensively in the sense that the best defense is a good offense. You don't need to play defense if you always have the puck.
     
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  10. Thenameless

    Thenameless Registered User

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    It's not that simple. The devil's in the details:

    Gotta See It: Messier's '84 series-turning goal - Sportsnet.ca

    After Game 2, the series was tied at 1-1, with the Islanders looking to build momentum after having blown out the Oilers 6-1. And they were actually ahead in Game 3. Remember, these are the Dynasty Islanders that had just won 4 Cups in a row, beating Edmonton in the last one. Apart from the crucial Game 3 goal mentioned above, the Messier hit on Potvin in Game 1 really helped set the tone for the Oilers in that final. Everyone played a little bigger, a little more confidently after that. Gretzky could be relied on to always lead in scoring, but there was something about the way that Messier played that changed the complexion of this series - and it was recognized by the Conn Smythe. This is something that Yzerman could not have done for the Oilers at that time. Yzerman is the more polished offensive player, but he instilled no fear on opposing players. And intimidation was a more tangible thing in the 80's.
     
  11. Bouboumaster

    Bouboumaster Registered User

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    Yzerman is better at being a GM and not being an *******t than Messier.
    Messier is slightly better at hockey and much better at taking your head off than Yzerman
     
  12. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    Why did Messier never score 155 points then?
     
  13. ManofSteel55

    ManofSteel55 Registered User

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    So you are using 1season to say which player was better? Seems legit.
     
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  14. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    So you have no answer for this o_O?
     
  15. Jim MacDonald

    Jim MacDonald Registered User

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    I know I might seem impartial due to my avatar....but I'll try to put forward a "good" argument for Stevie Y....and certainly welcome rebuttals as good, healthy passionate "bar stool banter" between fans is fun! 1. I've never heard people say Messier was both the best offensive and defensive player on his team, I have heard this said about Yzerman. 2. Yzerman, as crazy as this my sound because of the deterioration of his right knee, still, when healthy, was important to the team toward the end of his career....I've heard Messier, despite his diminishing skills, refused to take a reduced role/reduced minutes. 3. Yzerman could be used on both special teams (power play and penalty kill) because of his tremendous ability to win faceoffs. I don't really think of Messier as a special teams guy, granted I didn't get a love for hockey until Messier became a Ranger, so I might not know about Messier's special teams prowess during the Oiler's dynasty.
     
  16. GoGoSens

    GoGoSens Registered User

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    Messier was better.

    close this thread.
     
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  17. JustinCase

    JustinCase Registered User

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    A quick search of the all time greatest lists will show that Messier is overwhelmingly regarded as the better all time player.
     
  18. Keanu Reeves

    Keanu Reeves Registered User

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  19. allhailmatthews

    allhailmatthews Registered User

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    Why did Yzerman never win any Hart Trophies?
     
  20. tomi2

    tomi2 Registered User

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    Messier was a slight tier ahead of Yzerman (and Sakic). He is clearly better.
     
  21. CokenoPepsi

    CokenoPepsi Registered User

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    Messier

    And it isn't even close
     
  22. Volica

    Volica Big Ttich Rittich

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    Gotta go with Moose.
    Also points for biggest ******* in the league. That Vancouver contract. LOL
     
  23. The Red Line

    The Red Line Registered User

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    Literally all of those things describe Yzerman, some of them actually describe him better than they do Messier. Then I read your last line and it all made sense. Why even bother attempting to explain when you can't even get past your own petty biases?
     
  24. Binister

    Binister Generational User

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    Loved Yzerman as a kid, he had a catchy and a cool name when me as a four year heard it for the first time. I have his jersey also so I pick him.
     

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