Messier vs Yzerman - Better Hockey Player (Career)

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Machinehead, Jan 12, 2019.

?

Messier or Yzerman?

Poll closed Jan 22, 2019.
  1. Mark Messier

    53.7%
  2. Steve Yzerman

    46.3%
  1. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    I think Yzerman was more than just a little bit better offensively than Messier, here is how they stack up in their best season with adjusted points in their 10 best seasons

    Yzerman 128,111, 106, 97,92,91,89,86,85,84 (79,76,75, 71,69 to round off at 15)
    Messier 108, 95, 95, 93 ,91, 91,91,,87, 85,77, (77,73,72,69,65 to round off at 15)
     
    TheGoldenJet likes this.
  2. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Messier regularly missed a handful of games each season. His PPG placements are only slightly worse and he has more top 10s
     
  3. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    So Yzerman scoring 102 points in 64 games in his breakout year...
    84 in 58 during that crazy 92-93 season.
    Sliding into a post, breaking his leg and missing like 30 games his 3rd year.


    Man it's so lucky Stevey Y never had any substantial injuries, then he could of played an extra 3 years as a 40 point center and miss the playoffs for like 8 years in a row.
     
  4. JAK

    JAK Registered User

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    Depends which era and by which rules the game is referee'ed.

    But can't vote for the dirty player
     
  5. Regal

    Regal Registered User

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    Those are included in the PPG placements
     
  6. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    So playing hurt doesn't affect ppg? Wasn't that the argument you were making o_O?
     
  7. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Even with adding missing games to the PPG paces Yzerman would add 2 more 100 points seasons and another two more in the low 80's.

    Messier would have a 95 point season go to 105 and then some more slight bumps to seasons.

    The offensive edge would still be quite clearly to Yzerman for offense.
     
  8. Plural

    Plural Registered User

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    That's quite the difference.
     
  9. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    I think it's a bit too large really but Moose does have an incredible playoff resume that probably tips the difference.
     
  10. zar

    zar Bleed Blue

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    Messiah.

    Mad respect for Yzerman but Messier had this will about him that made everyone better and safer around him. The poll is for the better hockey player not who has better stats... which I am not even sure points to Yzerman.

    ... and for the guy who said Yzerman was faster and had a better shot than Messier... I say this... :biglaugh::biglaugh:
     
  11. HanSolo

    HanSolo Vegas Strong

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    And what, Yzerman carried scrubs his whole career?
     
  12. EP40

    EP40 Registered Snoozer

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    Yzerman was the leading scorer on his team in all of his great 100 point seasons. Can't say the same for the elbow king.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  13. psycat

    psycat Registered User

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    I mean he is not wrong about the leadership award being absolute crap a long the lines of the Selke.
     
  14. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    Well for starters when he had 155 points he had a washed up Maclean and Gerard Gallant on his line. Put Messier between those two and even in his prime I doubt he cracks 80-90 points.
     
  15. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    That would be me, and Yzerman was a substantially better skater with both a better wrist AND slap shot. Hence why Yzerman has more goals with like 250 less games. Not mentioning Messier had an extra 4 years in the highest scoring years in nhl history(early 80's).
     
  16. Kupo

    Kupo Team Scorched Earth Sponsor

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    Ahhh cute, an angry Vancouver fan.
     
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  17. JustinCase

    JustinCase Registered User

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    Messier quite easily.
     
  18. Bliss

    Bliss Tier 2 Fan

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    Messier. He's probably the most underrated HoFer ever.. probably because he was in Gretzky's shadow for most his prime.
     
  19. TopShelfYzerman

    TopShelfYzerman Gm 7 Double OT

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    Going into this thread I knew Messier was slightly better. I voted Yzerman to offset this rationale but gun to my head Messier.

    I also want to stop the notion that Yzerman was average defensively during his early years. He was very astute and aware of his defensive positioning. He is also on course saying that his defense early on was never an issue and only later in his career was he recognized for his defensive play despite him not changing much to his game.
     
  20. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    By will, you mean a completely stacked team around him while still having great wingers as a second line center?.....

    Look, we all know Messier had the guts and courage that carried over to his play, but his “will” have his team as much of an edge as playing on extremely amazing teams. Even the ‘90 Oilers were still a powerhouse without Gretzky.

    People forget Yzerman carried the Wings for nearly 10 years before finally getting a team around him worth noting. He then had to deal with injuries along with naturally getting older. He still produced well though, and secured himself as a top playoff performer.

    Messier was also a slow starter on a team with Wayne Gretzky, where as Yzerman became the Wings best player almost immediately.

    Messier was an amazing player, but people like you put WAY to much stock into these sexy intangible words like “will power.”
     
  21. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    Exactly. It’s hard to be the great defensive player he was later on, when earlier, he had to carry the offense every year. Later Yzerman was past his offensive peak, and had significantly better support around him. It made the transition more smooth for him to focus on being a two way threat.
     
  22. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    Too bad for Yzerman and good for Messier?

    Games played and opportunities aren't created equal for all players in the playoffs. You still have to be judged on what your resume says - and Messier's resume in the playoffs is significantly better than Yzerman. That's a big differentiator here.

    I think at first glance i'd have Messier above Yzerman for regular season too but i honnestly didn't look too closely. I think playoffs alone makes this a very easy choice.
     
  23. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    Give me Messier on this 1.
     
  24. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Registered Derp

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    His playoff resume is significantly better because he was on those Oilers teams very early while Yzerman was getting his team into the post season pretty much single handily.....

    And this doesn’t mean Messier wasn’t an amazing playoff performer, but like you said...he had the opportunities to perform, Yzerman didn’t until much later.
     
  25. Voight

    Voight #winning

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    Yzerman deserves a lot of credit for his mid career change into a 2-way force... however in a Game 7, I want Mess.

    Both were amazing obviously but I think Moose, VAN years aside, takes the mantle here but its very close.
     
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