Messier vs Yzerman - Better Hockey Player (Career)

Messier or Yzerman?


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    216
  • Poll closed .

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
22,247
10,126
Yzerman was never simultaneously better offensively and defensively. And while he was a little better offensively at his best, Messier spent more years producing at that level

I think Yzerman was more than just a little bit better offensively than Messier, here is how they stack up in their best season with adjusted points in their 10 best seasons

Yzerman 128,111, 106, 97,92,91,89,86,85,84 (79,76,75, 71,69 to round off at 15)
Messier 108, 95, 95, 93 ,91, 91,91,,87, 85,77, (77,73,72,69,65 to round off at 15)
 
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Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
24,545
13,840
Vancouver
I think Yzerman was more than just a little bit better offensively than Messier, here is how they stack up in their best season with adjusted points in their 10 best seasons

Yzerman 128,111, 106, 97,92,91,89,86,85,84 (79,76,75, 71,69 to round off at 15)
Messier 108, 95, 95, 93 ,91, 91,91,,87, 85,77, (77,73,72,69,65 to round off at 15)

Messier regularly missed a handful of games each season. His PPG placements are only slightly worse and he has more top 10s
 

streitz

Registered User
Jul 22, 2018
1,258
318
Messier regularly missed a handful of games each season. His PPG placements are only slightly worse and he has more top 10s

So Yzerman scoring 102 points in 64 games in his breakout year...
84 in 58 during that crazy 92-93 season.
Sliding into a post, breaking his leg and missing like 30 games his 3rd year.


Man it's so lucky Stevey Y never had any substantial injuries, then he could of played an extra 3 years as a 40 point center and miss the playoffs for like 8 years in a row.
 
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JAK

Non-registered User
Jul 10, 2010
3,686
2,567
Depends which era and by which rules the game is referee'ed.

But can't vote for the dirty player
 

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
24,545
13,840
Vancouver
So Yzerman scoring 102 points in 64 games in his breakout year...
84 in 58 during that crazy 92-93 season.
Sliding into a post, breaking his leg and missing like 30 games his 3rd year.


Man it's so lucky Stevey Y never had any substantial injuries, then he could of played an extra 3 years as a 40 point center and miss the playoffs for like 8 years in a row.

Those are included in the PPG placements
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
22,247
10,126
Messier regularly missed a handful of games each season. His PPG placements are only slightly worse and he has more top 10s

Even with adding missing games to the PPG paces Yzerman would add 2 more 100 points seasons and another two more in the low 80's.

Messier would have a 95 point season go to 105 and then some more slight bumps to seasons.

The offensive edge would still be quite clearly to Yzerman for offense.
 

Plural

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
33,703
4,853
I agree with the first part but not the second.

To me it's a bit of a coin flip but I took Yzerman.

For the record the HOH section on these boards had Moose 6th and Yzerman 13th in their top 60 centers of all time.

That's quite the difference.
 

zar

Bleed Blue
Sponsor
Oct 9, 2010
7,072
6,493
Edmonton AB
Messiah.

Mad respect for Yzerman but Messier had this will about him that made everyone better and safer around him. The poll is for the better hockey player not who has better stats... which I am not even sure points to Yzerman.

... and for the guy who said Yzerman was faster and had a better shot than Messier... I say this... :biglaugh::biglaugh:
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
96,449
30,711
Las Vegas
Yzerman by a lot. Messier was a glorified cheap shot artist that had the benefit of playing on stacked teams.

Most of his awards are undeserving. 84 Conn Smythe is an absolute joke..

And the Mark Messier Leadership Award is obviously a farce.
And what, Yzerman carried scrubs his whole career?
 

streitz

Registered User
Jul 22, 2018
1,258
318
And what, Yzerman carried scrubs his whole career?


Well for starters when he had 155 points he had a washed up Maclean and Gerard Gallant on his line. Put Messier between those two and even in his prime I doubt he cracks 80-90 points.
 

streitz

Registered User
Jul 22, 2018
1,258
318
... and for the guy who said Yzerman was faster and had a better shot than Messier... I say this... :biglaugh::biglaugh:


That would be me, and Yzerman was a substantially better skater with both a better wrist AND slap shot. Hence why Yzerman has more goals with like 250 less games. Not mentioning Messier had an extra 4 years in the highest scoring years in nhl history(early 80's).
 

Kupo

MAFIA, MOUNT UP!
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Oct 31, 2017
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Yzerman by a lot. Messier was a glorified cheap shot artist that had the benefit of playing on stacked teams.

Most of his awards are undeserving. 84 Conn Smythe is an absolute joke..

And the Mark Messier Leadership Award is obviously a farce.

Ahhh cute, an angry Vancouver fan.
 
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La Bamba

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 23, 2009
9,414
5,771
Messier. He's probably the most underrated HoFer ever.. probably because he was in Gretzky's shadow for most his prime.
 

TopShelfYzerman

Gm 7 Double OT
Jan 3, 2011
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Going into this thread I knew Messier was slightly better. I voted Yzerman to offset this rationale but gun to my head Messier.

I also want to stop the notion that Yzerman was average defensively during his early years. He was very astute and aware of his defensive positioning. He is also on course saying that his defense early on was never an issue and only later in his career was he recognized for his defensive play despite him not changing much to his game.
 

GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
2,902
South Of the Tank
Messiah.

Mad respect for Yzerman but Messier had this will about him that made everyone better and safer around him. The poll is for the better hockey player not who has better stats... which I am not even sure points to Yzerman.

... and for the guy who said Yzerman was faster and had a better shot than Messier... I say this... :biglaugh::biglaugh:
By will, you mean a completely stacked team around him while still having great wingers as a second line center?.....

Look, we all know Messier had the guts and courage that carried over to his play, but his “will” have his team as much of an edge as playing on extremely amazing teams. Even the ‘90 Oilers were still a powerhouse without Gretzky.

People forget Yzerman carried the Wings for nearly 10 years before finally getting a team around him worth noting. He then had to deal with injuries along with naturally getting older. He still produced well though, and secured himself as a top playoff performer.

Messier was also a slow starter on a team with Wayne Gretzky, where as Yzerman became the Wings best player almost immediately.

Messier was an amazing player, but people like you put WAY to much stock into these sexy intangible words like “will power.”
 
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GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
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Going into this thread I knew Messier was slightly better. I voted Yzerman to offset this rationale but gun to my head Messier.

I also want to stop the notion that Yzerman was average defensively during his early years. He was very astute and aware of his defensive positioning. He is also on course saying that his defense early on was never an issue and only later in his career was he recognized for his defensive play despite him not changing much to his game.
Exactly. It’s hard to be the great defensive player he was later on, when earlier, he had to carry the offense every year. Later Yzerman was past his offensive peak, and had significantly better support around him. It made the transition more smooth for him to focus on being a two way threat.
 
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bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
22,078
14,589
I would give Yzerman the peak/prime by a hair with Messier for Consistency and playoffs....although Yzerman was a great playoff performer, he just wasn’t in a dynasty early on like Messier was.


Too bad for Yzerman and good for Messier?

Games played and opportunities aren't created equal for all players in the playoffs. You still have to be judged on what your resume says - and Messier's resume in the playoffs is significantly better than Yzerman. That's a big differentiator here.

I think at first glance i'd have Messier above Yzerman for regular season too but i honnestly didn't look too closely. I think playoffs alone makes this a very easy choice.
 

GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
2,902
South Of the Tank
Too bad for Yzerman and good for Messier?

Games played and opportunities aren't created equal for all players in the playoffs. You still have to be judged on what your resume says - and Messier's resume in the playoffs is significantly better than Yzerman. That's a big differentiator here.

I think at first glance i'd have Messier above Yzerman for regular season too but i honnestly didn't look too closely. I think playoffs alone makes this a very easy choice.
His playoff resume is significantly better because he was on those Oilers teams very early while Yzerman was getting his team into the post season pretty much single handily.....

And this doesn’t mean Messier wasn’t an amazing playoff performer, but like you said...he had the opportunities to perform, Yzerman didn’t until much later.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
40,373
16,652
Mulberry Street
Yzerman deserves a lot of credit for his mid career change into a 2-way force... however in a Game 7, I want Mess.

Both were amazing obviously but I think Moose, VAN years aside, takes the mantle here but its very close.
 
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