There's a lot of things that are off. Make no mistake, Messi is a goalscorer, and relied on to score goals, just as much as Ronaldo is. He goes about it differently, and he's better at other aspects of the game, but goal scoring is just as much a part of his game. Does Messi shoot as much as Ronaldo? No, but their team structure and tactics are different, and Messi does always lead his team in shots by a fair margin (IIRC, and I haven't done the math on it but as a team Barcelona typically shoot less than Real Madrid, so Messi may actually take a higher percentage of his team's shots than Ronaldo does).
Messi leading his team in shots by any margin or taking a higher percentage of his team's shots is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Shots were a valid point of context in the comparison of their respective goal records and like I said the difference is surely very significant. We're talking in the hundreds here. All you have to do is look at a stats site for one season (though some seasons are closer, but only one player takes more shots) and extrapolate the data.
I don't think it should be applied to either.
Yet you didn't seem to show up until it was applied to Ronaldo, and for the record it was a "strike" against Messi when the topic was first broached, and in doing so you only commented on Messi's respective team's accomplishments. So say whatever you like, but your post was quite clear and your example is there for all to see.
How it is clutching at straws? Busquets/Iniesta/Xavi has an argument for being the best midfield ever. Modric is the only one of Madrid's midfielders over the span that Ronaldo has been there that compares to them. Not only did they have incredible chemistry as a team but they also worked really well within Barcelona's structure and with Messi specifically.
For starters, neither team was just comprised of their respective midfield and one of Ronaldo or Messi. To the midfield point though, Xavi left Barça three years ago and in his final season he was rotated. When Xavi left Iniesta was already 31 and his appearances haven't had consistent minutes based on how he's been rotated/rested for years now. Then you've got the respective benches in recent years. When Barça look to the bench they get to choose from the likes of Gomes or last season Paulinho. Actually Paulinho started as many matches as Isco last season and they played similar minutes. When Madrid have gone to the bench or rotated they had Isco, James Rodriquez and Kovacic. And Madrid have had incredible team chemistry (on the pitch) the past how many seasons.
I've seen you talk plenty about many Madrid players being overrated and Barcelona players being underrated. So are you saying that you think that the Madrid teams that have Ronaldo on them have been better than the Barcelona teams that have had Messi? That doesn't even take into account the coaching, which again has been better (especially from a league perspective) with Barcelona.
First of all, feel free to dig up anything I've said in the past. Just be sure to link it so I can get the full context of the discussion. As for which team was better, I'd say it depends on the season. Either way I don't know that the differences were so big generally that it's that much of an impact. That also doesn't take into account the respective players' roles in those teams. Messi being "relied on to score goals" doesn't mean that he's in a position to be able to score more than Ronaldo. As for the managers, I think we've had better managers, but I wouldn't say it's been a night and day difference during that period.
...and once again, I have never said that it should apply to one and not the other. However, people often talk like Madrid only has one goal and that's to get Ronaldo goals (which obviously isn't true), and act like Messi is somehow part of a team that doesn't use him as the focal point and he's not the main goal scorer (he absolutely is).
As for who it should apply to, see above. Your comments were very clear.
I don't know these people you're referring to when you talk about getting Ronaldo goals. I'd be quite surprised you're encountering all these people with regularity, but then I don't know what you do when you're not on this forum. Messi being the main goalscorer I just touched on and his being relied on to score more goals doesn't mean he's in a better position to do so.
That doesn't change that Messi is the superior player to Ronaldo; that's clear, but people keep using really strange arguments to diminish Ronaldo's accomplishments when, for the most part, a lot of those same arguments used to detract from Ronaldo's stats also apply to Messi.
I find it hilarious that you would post "people keep using really strange arguments to diminish Ronaldo's accomplishments", in this thread of all places, and not say the same for Messi. Then of course you are the one who keeps going on about how you wouldn't apply something to either player and yet only reacting to it being applied to one player by actually using the other player as an example.
