Message sent to Season Ticket Holders from Kevin Lowe

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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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It is frustrating from the P.O.V. now that we have no franchise player left and are going to have to rely on the UFA market (good luck with that) or a trade to get something done.

As much I'd like to think a Lecavalier will be available ... I doubt it.

It just shows that you have very little margin for error under the new cap system.

If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup ... I don't believe you can do that without a superstar player. We had an big time asset in Pronger and there was a big time player in Luongo being shopped. That's hard for me to overlook seeing the situation we find ourselves in now. The fans are supposed to get excited about signing ... Scott Hartnell (I like the kid really, but still).

At least if we had Luongo, as a fan, I could rest easy knowing we have our franchise cornerstone for next 4-5 years even if there were no playoffs this season.
 

gr8haluschak

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Jul 25, 2004
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I don't mind Roloson - I do think he is better than his sv% (.909) indicates. He's an average to an above average goaltender.

Would I take Luongo over him? You bet. You spend Pronger's 6.25M + a little change on Luongo. You still have 3-4M on Roloson's salary to spend on a defenceman.

Luongo + Markov vs Roloson + Lupul + Smid.

Hell, we're still not even considering Lupul's 2.6M next year, and 2.9M salary the year after. Yikes. I know which deal I would do.

Very bad asset management.

If one of the bigger apologists in the Edmonton media (Jim Matheson) can admit the Oilers should have waited a few more months to get a higher return, you'd expect some of the Lowe/Oilers apologists on this board to admit the deal was a mistake. It's not even using hindsight - for most, it was a bad deal then. Today the beliefs are just being confirmed.


how the hell does waiting a few months inprove the situation - it does not because the leverage will continue to go in favor of the other team, as well how does him playing here miserable help the oilers ? it does not, once again look at how he played in St Louis when he was not foucsed. If teams are not going to give up what we want NOW why the hell would they give it up when Prongers value decreased. Added to that where the hell do we get Markov from, if he did not sign before what makes you think all of a sudden he signs if we get Luongo ? Some of you need to realize how the facts around situation.
Added to that I love your bad asset management really seems like Devries (or who ever the hell it was) for Niniiama for Brewer for Pronger for Lupul and Smid seems like good asset managemnt to me
 

PuckNut

Registered User
Oct 31, 2005
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It is frustrating from the P.O.V. now that we have no franchise player left and are going to have to rely on the UFA market (good luck with that) or a trade to get something done.

As much I'd like to think a Lecavalier will be available ... I doubt it.

It just shows that you have very little margin for error under the new cap system.

If the goal is to win a Stanley Cup ... I don't believe you can do that without a superstar player.

Now that I can 100% agree with. ;)
 

PunjabiOil*

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You can bulid around Luongo, but with 2 goaltender prospects on the rise and not so many on defence or up front on forward Lowe chose otherwise.

In June 2006, JDD's value was at an all time low. He stunk in the AHL, only recently started getting better.

DD didn't really take the next step either in his final WHL season. Poor performance in the Russia/canada All-star games, and WJC tryout camp. His ECHL numbers this year aren't great either.
 

PunjabiOil*

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how the hell does waiting a few months inprove the situation - it does not because the leverage will continue to go in favor of the other team,?
Not neccessarily. This is the best defenceman in the league we're talking about.

If a hold-out Comrie can get you a 1st, 3rd, Woywitka...well you get the idea. Hopefully
as well how does him playiong here miserable help the oilers ? it does not, once again,?
A miserable Pronger still much better than a miserable ''In Anaheim, I could go out for a few beers after the game'' Lupul (who clearly did not want to play here because of the hometown boy pressure), and a young prospect who is hardly ''can't miss prospect''

In any event, don't just make a trade just to make the trade. It was a bad deal then, and a bad deal now.

. Added to that where the hell do we get Markov from, if he did not sign before what makes you think all of a sudden he signs if we get Luongo ?

You have money that's saved from Roloson's salary to spend on a UFA defenceman, such as Markov. Or offer more money to Spacek. Countless possibilities.
 

Gusher

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Jan 1, 2007
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As much as it's about a player that made a difference and you're in this new era where we weren't supposed to be poor anymore and now a guy's dumped over a 100K? I'd imagine some ticket holders are smart enough to put things together like the Oilers finishing nearly 4 mill under cap after having just come off a super long playoff run.

Smyth was not dealt just because of a $100,000 difference in negotiations. There was more to it than that.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Smyth Horcoff Hemsky
Torres Stoll Pisani
Moreau Pouliot Thor
Petersen Reasoner Stortini

JFJ/Brodziak

Van Ryn Smith
Staois Markov
Greene MAB

Gilbert

Luongo
Lalime

Est. payroll = $42 million

Is a playoff team. Florida would not have been able to retain Van Ryn anyway since they'd have Pronger's deal and then Jay Bo also to renew as the years went on.

And people say it's hindsight .... I agree, it's easy to say now. However the moment I heard Luongo had been traded to Vancouver ... to me that was almost as big of a blow as hearing that Pronger wanted out. I knew right then that it was possible we already missed the bus.
 

PunjabiOil*

Guest
Added to that I love your bad asset management really seems like Devries (or who ever the hell it was) for Niniiama for Brewer for Pronger for Lupul and Smid seems like good asset managemnt to me

If was:

McGillis - Niinimaa.

Niinimaa for Isbister + Torres

Isbister for 4th round pick


__

The other deal was Marchment, Kelly, Bonsignore for Hamerlik

Hamerlik for Brewer and Josh Green

Comrie for Woywitka + 1st + 3rd

Brewer + Woywitka + Lynch for Pronger (Great trade, although St. Louis is now starting to benefit with Woywitka coming around).

Great trade, but that doesn't mean a current poor trade should be excusable based on a past good trade.
 

gr8haluschak

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Jul 25, 2004
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Not neccessarily. This is the best defenceman in the league we're talking about.

If a hold-out Comrie can get you a 1st, 3rd, Woywitka...well you get the idea. Hopefully
.

IF you think that is a good deal then you are sadly mistaken,

A miserable Pronger still much better than a miserable ''In Anaheim, I could go out for a few beers after the game'' Lupul (who clearly did not want to play here because of the hometown boy pressure), and a young prospect who is hardly ''can't miss prospect''

Teh pressure to play here no it is the fact this city is full of morons who seem to knwo better than NHL players and makde sure they let the guys know. Added to that what the hell are you watching with your comment about Smid




You have money that's saved from Roloson's salary to spend on a UFA defenceman, such as Markov. Or offer more money to Spacek. Countless possibilities.

We had the money before and Markov never signed sweet jesus man get some air to your brain. As well Spacek said IT NEVER CAME DOWN TO MONEY!

Added to that since everyone wants to play speculation who says Pronger would have even shown up to camp or Lowe allowing him to show up to camp and once again can you tell me how does the value of a guy who is not playing goes up or stays the same ?
 

gr8haluschak

Registered User
Jul 25, 2004
3,269
113
If was:

McGillis - Niinimaa.

Niinimaa for Isbister + Torres

Isbister for 4th round pick


__

The other deal was Marchment, Kelly, Bonsignore for Hamerlik

Hamerlik for Brewer and Josh Green

Comrie for Woywitka + 1st + 3rd

Brewer + Woywitka + Lynch for Pronger (Great trade, although St. Louis is now starting to benefit with Woywitka coming around).

Great trade, but that doesn't mean a current poor trade should be excusable based on a past good trade.

well you seem to want to bash Lowe for trading Pronger off of what he got right now. Fact are are the Oilers better with Lupul, Smid and the picks or Brewer Woywitka, and Lynch I would say a hell of a lot better.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
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how the hell does waiting a few months inprove the situation - it does not because the leverage will continue to go in favor of the other team, as well how does him playing here miserable help the oilers ? it does not, once again look at how he played in St Louis when he was not foucsed. If teams are not going to give up what we want NOW why the hell would they give it up when Prongers value decreased. Added to that where the hell do we get Markov from, if he did not sign before what makes you think all of a sudden he signs if we get Luongo ? Some of you need to realize how the facts around situation.
Added to that I love your bad asset management really seems like Devries (or who ever the hell it was) for Niniiama for Brewer for Pronger for Lupul and Smid seems like good asset managemnt to me

Much easier to be an armchair GM with the benefit of hindsight than to have to deal with a real time situation. The truth is that Lowe made a judgment call based on the information at that point in time. The have been a few stocks I wish I could re-do once I saw how the market unfolded but reality doesn't work like that.
 

PunjabiOil*

Guest
IF you think that is a good deal then you are sadly mistaken,
It's not great, but hardly a failure a la the Pronger deal

Teh pressure to play here no it is the fact this city is full of morons who seem to knwo better than NHL players and makde sure they let the guys know. Added to that what the hell are you watching with your comment about Smid!

You didn't address my point. Would you rather have a miserable Pronger or a miserable Lupul on your team?

As for Smid, he may turn out good, but he has little offence, and is not an elite defensive prospect. That is a fact.



We had the money before and Markov never signed sweet jesus man get some air to your brain. As well Spacek said IT NEVER CAME DOWN TO MONEY!

You clearly have trouble reading and analyzing. I'm done with you.
 

Yanner39

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Oct 5, 2002
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So if the team is committed to winning a Stanley cub why did they trade Pronger for scrubs? Why not trade him for Luongo, Hossa, Heatly, or even for Havlat in a three way? Why did the Pronger trade have to be a salary dump? And if you were going to do a salary dump, why did you not spend some of the surplus on Eaton or Markov? There were a million opitions. What we have is a failure of a desire to spend to compete, and that's not even mentioning Smyth...

Maybe he should have tried for Crosby? How about Ovechkin?

When other GMs know they have you by the balls, your job just got ten times tougher.
 

Gusher

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Jan 1, 2007
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If was:

McGillis - Niinimaa.

Niinimaa for Isbister + Torres

Isbister for 4th round pick


__

The other deal was Marchment, Kelly, Bonsignore for Hamerlik

Hamerlik for Brewer and Josh Green

Comrie for Woywitka + 1st + 3rd

Brewer + Woywitka + Lynch for Pronger (Great trade, although St. Louis is now starting to benefit with Woywitka coming around).

Great trade, but that doesn't mean a current poor trade should be excusable based on a past good trade.

Not all trades are made for "today". Some trades are made for "tomorrow". Both the Pronger and Smyth deals were made for tomorrow and Lowe did a fine job. Smid is already a good defenceman and at barely 21 years old he'll be great in a couple years. Lupul has had a tough time adjusting but he'll be much better next season. Just wait and see. Nilsson and O'Marra, well, we'll see in a year or two how well they pan out. But the 1st round pick we also got for Smyth is what is important. Lowe has set-up this team really good to do some big things this summer.

With the Pronger trade last summer it made a huge mess of Lowe's plans for this team. Lowe has now gone in a different direction than he wanted to after the Stanley Cup run last spring. I trust that Lowe knows what he's doing.
 

gr8haluschak

Registered User
Jul 25, 2004
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It's not great, but hardly a failure a la the Pronger deal



You didn't address my point. Would you rather have a miserable Pronger or a miserable Lupul on your team?

As for Smid, he may turn out good, but he has little offence, and is not an elite defensive prospect. That is a fact.





You clearly have trouble reading and analyzing. I'm done with you.


First I will pass judgement on the Pronger trade until we see what that has netted unlike you I realize that the Oiler lose the trade now but will win it in the future. Added to that you sit there and talk about using the money to sign Markov or Spacek but you ignore the fact that WE DID TRY TO USE THE MONEY TO SIGN CHARA and madfe an attempt to get Markov here but BOTH TURNED US DOWN just like Spacek said it was NOT THE MONEY, ____ get it through you head, and likewise I am done with your garbage as well because you refuse to acknowledge the reality that we had the moeny and players did not sign here this year.
 

PunjabiOil*

Guest
Maybe he should have tried for Crosby? How about Ovechkin?

When other GMs know they have you by the balls, your job just got ten times tougher.

That's what he's getting paid millions to do - make the tough decisions. Would a Bobby Clarke cave into the players' wants like Pronger did (trade him immediately after the request)? Ottawa model for Yashin?

Lowe showed a lack of guts to challenge Pronger or overvalued the GAB (a term created by Matts)
 

gr8haluschak

Registered User
Jul 25, 2004
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That's what he's getting paid millions to do - make the tough decisions. Would a Bobby Clarke cave into the players' wants like Pronger did (trade him immediately after the request)? Ottawa model for Yashin?

Lowe showed a lack of guts to challenge Pronger or overvalued the GAB (a term created by Matts)

DID HE NOT CHALLENGE COMRIE ? let me guess you are probably one of those who critizied Lowe for doing that as well. Added to that what did Lindros get Clarke in a trade, that amzing package that included Hlavac, Johnsson, Brendle and a 3rd round pick WOW just simply amazing. As for Yashin I am sure that we would all love for Milbury to be in the league again but he is not.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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I think Lowe learned an important lesson last summer though -- just because you make it to Stanley Cup finals, a GM cannot afford to be a step slow or take a day off.

I think he was still hoping that Pronger would reconsider his trade demand a few days after the finals ended. He was wrong. We missed out on Luongo because of it.

I think he was hoping that Spacek would then resign. He was wrong. We missed out on spending that $3 million on a servicable offensive d-man like say a Filip Kuba.

By the time Lowe really mobilized his chips, a lot of the bigger players had already been signed or traded. A lot happened in about 2 days there, after that the market really dried up.

Nonis and Sutter were able to acquire bigger impact assets than Lowe was, depsite Pronger having far more value than a Bertuzzi coming off a bad season (with only 1 year until UFA to boot) and Leopold.
 

Gusher

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Jan 1, 2007
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I think he was still hoping that Pronger would reconsider his trade demand a few days after the finals ended. He was wrong. We missed out on Luongo because of it.

What makes you think that Lowe was able to land Luongo? Just because the Canucks traded for Luongo doesn't mean the Oilers had an equal chance of getting him. :shakehead
 

alanschu

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
8,659
914
Edmonton, Alberta
You're talking about a guy who just lost his starting QB job in one city and now he was gonna be dealt to another place where he was expected to compete for that job again.

Totally different sports and circumstances

Plummer stated that he would retire if traded. That certainly doesn't help his trade value.

When a guy states that he has issues with living in a particular city, it doesn't particularly help his trade value, since there's no telling that he's going to like it in your city either.

But you're right, Football and Hockey are totally different sports.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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What makes you think that Lowe was able to land Luongo? Just because the Canucks traded for Luongo doesn't mean the Oilers had an equal chance of getting him. :shakehead

You cannot seriously tell me that Pronger coming off the Stanley Cup finals had less value than Bertuzzi coming off a total crapshoot of a season with only one year left on his contract to boot.

If we really wanted Luongo and Lowe had moved fast enough, he would be an Oiler today. I have very little doubt about that. That's the thing with being a GM, I think we learned the hard way, the day the season is over ... the season is REALLY over. The next day you have to operate like you're starting again from ground zero. While we were stilling thinking about the Cup finals, our rivals, Calgary and Vancouver were already working on deals/targeting players to improve their rosters. And they did just that. I am still wowwed by the fact that Vancouver got Luongo for what they did and Calgary the same for Tanguay. Complete highway robbery.
 

Digger12

Gold Fever
Feb 27, 2002
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Back o' beyond
Personally I would've liked to have seen Lowe sit on Pronger (figuratively) for as long as it took to get full value, but there's an issue that keeps bugging me regarding that path of action.

Considering when this all blew up into public view, combined with the bad eastern media press being heaped not only on the team but on the city itself, how in the world does Lowe attract anything but flies in the UFA market if he lets the Pronger opera fester and hang over the club like a black cloud the entire summer, perhaps even through training camp?

Sure you can say that UFAs outside the club didn't sign here anyway, w/ the exception of Sykora (who didn't exactly have teams banging down his door anyway, if I recall correctly), but at the beginning of the summer Lowe likely thought he still had a shot at finding a decent UFA or two.

Would it have been better for the Oilers to wait on a Pronger deal until the opportune moment?

In a vaccuum, yes.

Unfortunately, no GM has that luxury of working in such a sterile environment.
 

alanschu

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
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Edmonton, Alberta
In June 2006, JDD's value was at an all time low. He stunk in the AHL, only recently started getting better.

DD didn't really take the next step either in his final WHL season. Poor performance in the Russia/canada All-star games, and WJC tryout camp. His ECHL numbers this year aren't great either.


Ah, but in June 2006, Joffrey Lupul's value was significantly higher than it is now.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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I'm not really that big on the "we should have sat on Pronger" approach.

You weren't going to get a better player for Pronger than Luongo, even if you waited until this year's deadline. Seriously speaking, I think Luongo > Pronger, when you factor in that Pronger at age 32 could start to lose a step or become more injury prone as his age increases.

There's a very short list of players I would take over Luongo. And I mean really after Crosby and Ovechkin, I think it becomes a bit of a crapshoot.
 
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