Memorial Cup Format Change

[phillipsj89]

I want to throw this out there. Although, I dont mind the current format, many people HATE it, passionately. The biggest gripe is the "host" team, the problem is, sometimes they are undeserving, but to ensure money is made and tickets are sold the hometown fans need something to grab onto.

How bout this format?

Qualification

The two teams that make it to the finals in each league are guaranteed entry, the winner of the final series gets a top seed (back to this in a bit.)

The Host team, selected by the CHL.

The team with the best regular season record (winning percentage) out of the 3 leagues that has not already qualified via the first 2 ways.

Seeding

Champions of Each league are seeded 1-2-3 respectively by REGULAR SEASON winning %. The Remaining team will be seeded according to REGULAR SEASON winning %. So for example, this years tournament would have looked like:


Edmonton Oil Kings | Champ 1
VS
North Bay Battalion | Runner Up

Guelph Storm | Champ 2
VS
Baie-Comeau Drakkar | Runner Up

Val-d'Or, Foreurs | Champ 3
VS
London Knights | Host

Kelowna Rockets | Reg Sea Win %
VS
Portland Winterhawks | Runner Up

I also played with the idea of giving the Runner up in each league 4,5,6. In which case it would have looked like this:


Edmonton Oil Kings | Champ 1
VS
London Knights | Host

Guelph Storm | Champ 2
VS
Kelowna Rockets | Reg Sea Win %

Val-d'Or, Foreurs | Champ 3
VS
North Bay Battalion | Runner Up

Portland Winterhawks | Runner Up
VS
Baie-Comeau Drakkar | Runner Up



Play

Single Elimination. Possibly using a best of 3 for the final.

Or,

Double elimination Tournament. One game final.


Thoughts? Changes?

Click to read more...

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I really think it should be the team that makes the final in the division with the most points, but rotate leagues each year. Hated how Saskatoon hosted, and they were like last place and traded like crazy to get back up to the top. Kinda London since they made the last two Memorial Cups, but lost this year. Still smart of them to host the Memorial Cup. Even Shawinigan, Brandon too.

 

[Sports Junkie 99]

I want to throw this out there. Although, I dont mind the current format, many people HATE it, passionately. The biggest gripe is the "host" team, the problem is, sometimes they are undeserving, but to ensure money is made and tickets are sold the hometown fans need something to grab onto.

How bout this format?

Qualification

The two teams that make it to the finals in each league are guaranteed entry, the winner of the final series gets a top seed (back to this in a bit.)

The Host team, selected by the CHL.

The team with the best regular season record (winning percentage) out of the 3 leagues that has not already qualified via the first 2 ways.

Seeding

Champions of Each league are seeded 1-2-3 respectively by REGULAR SEASON winning %. The Remaining team will be seeded according to REGULAR SEASON winning %. So for example, this years tournament would have looked like:


Edmonton Oil Kings | Champ 1
VS
North Bay Battalion | Runner Up

Guelph Storm | Champ 2
VS
Baie-Comeau Drakkar | Runner Up

Val-d'Or, Foreurs | Champ 3
VS
London Knights | Host

Kelowna Rockets | Reg Sea Win %
VS
Portland Winterhawks | Runner Up

I also played with the idea of giving the Runner up in each league 4,5,6. In which case it would have looked like this:


Edmonton Oil Kings | Champ 1
VS
London Knights | Host

Guelph Storm | Champ 2
VS
Kelowna Rockets | Reg Sea Win %

Val-d'Or, Foreurs | Champ 3
VS
North Bay Battalion | Runner Up

Portland Winterhawks | Runner Up
VS
Baie-Comeau Drakkar | Runner Up



Play

Single Elimination. Possibly using a best of 3 for the final.

Or,

Double elimination Tournament. One game final.


Thoughts? Changes?

Nothing personal, but those are way out their to say the least. You have made a giant mountian out of a small molehill.

 

[phillipsj89]

Nothing personal, but those are way out their to say the least. You have made a giant mountian out of a small molehill.

haha, love it. I knew this would be hit with some criticism. Any exact reason why this is a giant mountain?

Im just looking for something more entertaining, and I love the idea of a NCAA style tournament (with less teams of course)

 

[R S]

The entire point of the tournament is that it's a tournament of champions.

I think that's all I really need to say here.

 

[Rocko604]

Personally I wish the Memorial Cup was more similar to the Frozen Four. Two semi-final games on a Friday, the Final on a Sunday, and it's played in an NHL arena, in hopes it draws huge crowds. That said, how do we determine a legitimate 4th team?

 

[phillipsj89]

The entire point of the tournament is that it's a tournament of champions.

I think that's all I really need to say here.

I dont think so. The idea is to try and reduce the chances of the Host team (often not deserving) winning.

 

[Taoiseach]

I think the actual solution to all of this is to have proper national playdowns. That is to say, two best of seven semi-finals, and a best of seven final.

The only problem here is that you'd need a fourth team. There wouldn't be a 'host' team in this case, and I'm not crazy about the idea of making it be based on the regular season. Maybe the league runner up with the most wins in the playoffs? Hell, I'd even be open to inviting the RBC Cup champion (which should also be proper playdowns, but we won't get into that...).

In this case, Baie-Comeau would play Portland in a one game play-in. Edmonton would have home ice against Val-d'Or in the first semi-final, and Guelph would play BAC/Portland in the second. The winners would then play a best of seven for the Memorial Cup.

The playoffs would really only take about two weeks longer, and you could even condense the regular season by a week or so to accommodate that.

 

[Rocko604]

After actually giving it a lot of thought, the only thing I can think of for a 4th team was phillipsj89's suggestion of bringing in the team with the highest winning % that's not already in the tournament.

The four teams get re-seeded based on winning %, with the non champion being given the 4th seed. 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3.

So in this case, using the Frozen Four format, the tournament would have been:

1. Guelph vs 4. Kelowna
2. Edmonton vs. 3 Val-d'Or

Is it perfect? Probably not. But I feel it's immensely more legitimate than having a host team.

 

[optimus2861]

The only modification I would like to see is that the host team must advance to at least its league semi-final series in order to secure its berth at the tournament. If it does not, then the host league's runner-up (loser of the final series) takes the host berth instead.

So North Bay would've slid into London's spot this year, Edmonton would have claimed Saskatoon's last year, Rimouski would have claimed Shawinigan's in 2012, etc.

I understand why the format is what it is, and why it is unlikely to change, but it never seems right to have a host team fall flat in its playoffs and still get a spot at the big dance.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

If I had magic powers, I would actually split the WHL into two leagues, a prairie one and a BC/US league. 12 teams each.... that's small granted, but geographically more doable.

I would also do inter-league play during the regular season, a la baseball did a few years back. Each league submits a team to the championship tournament.

 

[Lunatik]

I think the actual solution to all of this is to have proper national playdowns. That is to say, two best of seven semi-finals, and a best of seven final.

The only problem here is that you'd need a fourth team. There wouldn't be a 'host' team in this case, and I'm not crazy about the idea of making it be based on the regular season. Maybe the league runner up with the most wins in the playoffs? Hell, I'd even be open to inviting the RBC Cup champion (which should also be proper playdowns, but we won't get into that...).

In this case, Baie-Comeau would play Portland in a one game play-in. Edmonton would have home ice against Val-d'Or in the first semi-final, and Guelph would play BAC/Portland in the second. The winners would then play a best of seven for the Memorial Cup.

The playoffs would really only take about two weeks longer, and you could even condense the regular season by a week or so to accommodate that.

4th team can be the league runner up in the host league.

For example this year would have seen North Bay instead of London. Then give each host league "home ice advantage" in the semi-finals

Have a schedule like this:

Semi-Final #1: Host League Champion vs. the league Champ with the lower winning % (combined playoffs & regular season) in a best of 5
Semi-Final #2: Host League Runner-Up vs. the league Champ with the higher winning % (combined playoffs & regular season) in a best of 5

Finals: Semi-final winners in a best of 7

 

[CharlieGirl]

Personally I wish the Memorial Cup was more similar to the Frozen Four. Two semi-final games on a Friday, the Final on a Sunday, and it's played in an NHL arena, in hopes it draws huge crowds. That said, how do we determine a legitimate 4th team?

Yes, because junior fans and teams deserve to be crapped on even more by the CHL?

 

[CharlieGirl]

After actually giving it a lot of thought, the only thing I can think of for a 4th team was phillipsj89's suggestion of bringing in the team with the highest winning % that's not already in the tournament.

The four teams get re-seeded based on winning %, with the non champion being given the 4th seed. 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3.

So in this case, using the Frozen Four format, the tournament would have been:

1. Guelph vs 4. Kelowna
2. Edmonton vs. 3 Val-d'Or

Is it perfect? Probably not. But I feel it's immensely more legitimate than having a host team.

And who exactly is buying up all the tickets, if the host team's fans know there's a chance their team might not get there? That's the main purpose for the host team having a berth in the Memorial Cup.

There have been a few instances where the host team has exited the playoffs early, but in most cases they're at least in the finals. Having a host team involved isn't generally a huge issue.

 

[Lunatik]

If I had magic powers, I would actually split the WHL into two leagues, a prairie one and a BC/US league. 12 teams each.... that's small granted, but geographically more doable.

I would also do inter-league play during the regular season, a la baseball did a few years back. Each league submits a team to the championship tournament.

I would prefer the CHL be the only "league", 3 leagues inside another league has always seemed goofy to me.

There are 60 CHL teams currently (22 WHL, 20 OHL, 18 QMJHL), why not create one league with 4 conferences with 15 teams in each conference. Then within each conference you could have 3 divisions with 5 teams.

Western Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Everett Silvertips | Kamloops Blazers | Calgary Hitmen
Portland Winter Hawks | Kelown Rockets | Edmonton Oil Kings
Seattle Thunderbirds | Prince George Cougars | Lethbridge Hurricanes
Spokane Chiefs | Vancouver Giants | Medicine Hat Tigers
Tri-City Americans | Victoria Royals | Red Deer Rebels

Mid-West Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Moose Jaw Warriors | Brandon Wheat Kings | London Knights
Prince Albert Raiders | North Bay Battalion | Plymouth Whalers
Regina Pats | Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds | Saginaw Spirit
Saskatoon Blades | Sudbury Wolves | Sarnia Sting
Swift Current Broncos | Winnipeg (relocated Kootaney Ice) | Windsor Spitfires

Central Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Eerie Otters | Barrie Colts | Kingston Frontenacs
Guelph Storm | Bellevile Bulls | Gatineau Olympiques
Kitchner Rangers | Oshawa Generals | Ottawa 67s
Mississauga Steelheads | Owen Sound Attack | Rouyn-Noranda Huskies
Niagra IceDogs | Peterborough Petes | Val-d'Or Foreurs

Eastern Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Blainville-Boisbriand Armada | Acadie-Bathurst Titan | Cape Breton Screaming Eagles
Drummondville Voltigeurs | Baie-Comeau Drakak | Charlottetown Islanders
Shawinigan Cataractes | Chicoutimi Sagueneens | Halifax Mooseheads
Sherbrooke Phoenix | Quebec Ramparts | Moncton Wildcats
Victoriaville Tigres | Rimouski Oceanic | Saint John Sea Dogs

 

[Rocko604]

Yes, because junior fans and teams deserve to be crapped on even more by the CHL?

Huh?

And who exactly is buying up all the tickets, if the host team's fans know there's a chance their team might not get there? That's the main purpose for the host team having a berth in the Memorial Cup.

There have been a few instances where the host team has exited the playoffs early, but in most cases they're at least in the finals. Having a host team involved isn't generally a huge issue.

If the format stayed the same then yes, I could see the need for a host team. But my idea is to eliminate the round robin and make a single elimination tournament. No need for a host team if you're doing that, which is why I'd take the CHL's regular season winner (winning % or ROW) as the 4th.

Maybe putting it in an NHL arena is a stretch, but you'd still need a venue that a) is a good hockey market, and b) has a decent sized arena. My POV is to make this more of an event, similar to the Frozen Four. IMO, the tournament is too drawn out. While I don't want to get into comparing the CHL to college sports in the US, if US NHL markets can sell out the Frozen Four games there's no reason why the Canadian markets couldn't do the same for Memorial Cup Final Four. The marketing of the event what have to step up quite a bit, but I think it could be done.

As for the host team's in the playoffs. From 12-14 no host team made it past the 2nd round. Hopefully the Remparts buck the trend next year.

 

[Raimu]

I would prefer the CHL be the only "league", 3 leagues inside another league has always seemed goofy to me.

There are 60 CHL teams currently (22 WHL, 20 OHL, 18 QMJHL), why not create one league with 4 conferences with 15 teams in each conference. Then within each conference you could have 3 divisions with 5 teams.

Western Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Everett Silvertips | Kamloops Blazers | Calgary Hitmen
Portland Winter Hawks | Kelown Rockets | Edmonton Oil Kings
Seattle Thunderbirds | Prince George Cougars | Lethbridge Hurricanes
Spokane Chiefs | Vancouver Giants | Medicine Hat Tigers
Tri-City Americans | Victoria Royals | Red Deer Rebels

Mid-West Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Moose Jaw Warriors | Brandon Wheat Kings | London Knights
Prince Albert Raiders | North Bay Battalion | Plymouth Whalers
Regina Pats | Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds | Saginaw Spirit
Saskatoon Blades | Sudbury Wolves | Sarnia Sting
Swift Current Broncos | Winnipeg (relocated Kootaney Ice) | Windsor Spitfires

Central Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Eerie Otters | Barrie Colts | Kingston Frontenacs
Guelph Storm | Bellevile Bulls | Gatineau Olympiques
Kitchner Rangers | Oshawa Generals | Ottawa 67s
Mississauga Steelheads | Owen Sound Attack | Rouyn-Noranda Huskies
Niagra IceDogs | Peterborough Petes | Val-d'Or Foreurs

Eastern Conference

Division #1 | Division #2 | Division #3
Blainville-Boisbriand Armada | Acadie-Bathurst Titan | Cape Breton Screaming Eagles
Drummondville Voltigeurs | Baie-Comeau Drakak | Charlottetown Islanders
Shawinigan Cataractes | Chicoutimi Sagueneens | Halifax Mooseheads
Sherbrooke Phoenix | Quebec Ramparts | Moncton Wildcats
Victoriaville Tigres | Rimouski Oceanic | Saint John Sea Dogs

A 60 team league would be a mess. Its a 68 game season, with 60 teams. You'd need at least 118 games to play each other team once at home, and once away. There's no way they are playing that many games, so they'd just end up playing games regionally anyway.

Travel costs would be immense, also (Cape Breton vs. Vancouver? ick!). Not to mention it adds a deterrent to playing in the CHL if some kid from Alberta knows there's a chance if he passes up on NCAA hockey and goes to the Oil Kings, for example, he could be traded to Baie-Commeau in the middle of nowhere Quebec where they speak a language he doesn't.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Your attempt is ambitious, but moving those southern Ontario teams in with the prairie teams is just too much geographically... the great lakes is just too big of an obstacle..if your driving buses anyway..

 

[Otto]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1674469

 

[Lunatik]

A 60 team league would be a mess. Its a 68 game season, with 60 teams. You'd need at least 118 games to play each other team once at home, and once away. There's no way they are playing that many games, so they'd just end up playing games regionally anyway.

Travel costs would be immense, also (Cape Breton vs. Vancouver? ick!). Not to mention it adds a deterrent to playing in the CHL if some kid from Alberta knows there's a chance if he passes up on NCAA hockey and goes to the Oil Kings, for example, he could be traded to Baie-Commeau in the middle of nowhere Quebec where they speak a language he doesn't.

I guess I didn't say that I would not have out of conference games, my bad.

 

[Lunatik]

Your attempt is ambitious, but moving those southern Ontario teams in with the prairie teams is just too much geographically... the great lakes is just too big of an obstacle..if your driving buses anyway..

is having a southern Ontario team make a prairie road trip really any worse than what some teams see already? Brandon drives their bus though 2 mountain ranges and across an international border (and crossing the Cascades in the winter can be a pretty hairy experience!) when they play Portland or any of the teams in Washington state. I can't imagine teams from the maritimes facing Gatineau or Val-d'or is much more pleasant either.

To expand on my idea it could see a schedule like this:

68 game schedule
No out of conference games.
1 home and 1 away against teams in other division
6 home and 6 away against teams in their division

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

is having a southern Ontario team make a prairie road trip really any worse than what some teams see already? Brandon drives their bus though 2 mountain ranges and across an international border (and crossing the Cascades in the winter can be a pretty hairy experience!) when they play Portland or any of the teams in Washington state. I can't imagine teams from the maritimes facing Gatineau or Val-d'or is much more pleasant either.

To expand on my idea it could see a schedule like this:

68 game schedule
No out of conference games.
1 home and 1 away against teams in other division
6 home and 6 away against teams in their division

If I remember the schedule correctly, Brandon makes one road trip per years to either the BC or US division. The mountain pass issue is reduced this way. Living in Vancouver and now Victoria, I only see them every other year and it makes me wonder what the point is. If the WHL were split up, I would allow teams to fly for out of out of league games. It would be safer than navigating mountains in winter. Also, how cool would it be for, say, Brandon to host the London Knights or Quebec Remparts one day?

Aloso I worked with a mom whose son who was from Vancouver but played in Moose Jaw, pretty tough on the family to get to Moose Jaw to see him play...

If the schedule were 68 games, I would maybe have 7 or 8 inter league games. If Brandon finished 4th overall in their league, they could go play the fourth overall team in the OHL, Q and BC/US league.

 

[JC Numminen]

If I remember the schedule correctly, Brandon makes one road trip per years to either the BC or US division. The mountain pass issue is reduced this way. Living in Vancouver and now Victoria, I only see them every other year and it makes me wonder what the point is. If the WHL were split up, I would allow teams to fly for out of out of league games. It would be safer than navigating mountains in winter. Also, how cool would it be for, say, Brandon to host the London Knights or Quebec Remparts one day?

Aloso I worked with a mom whose son who was from Vancouver but played in Moose Jaw, pretty tough on the family to get to Moose Jaw to see him play...

If the schedule were 68 games, I would maybe have 7 or 8 inter league games. If Brandon finished 4th overall in their league, they could go play the fourth overall team in the OHL, Q and BC/US league.

That is correct yes. Brandon makes one trip to play the western conference teams each year. They play 5 of them one year on the road, and the other 5 come to Brandon. It switches every year.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Huh?



If the format stayed the same then yes, I could see the need for a host team. But my idea is to eliminate the round robin and make a single elimination tournament. No need for a host team if you're doing that, which is why I'd take the CHL's regular season winner (winning % or ROW) as the 4th.

Maybe putting it in an NHL arena is a stretch, but you'd still need a venue that a) is a good hockey market, and b) has a decent sized arena. My POV is to make this more of an event, similar to the Frozen Four. IMO, the tournament is too drawn out. While I don't want to get into comparing the CHL to college sports in the US, if US NHL markets can sell out the Frozen Four games there's no reason why the Canadian markets couldn't do the same for Memorial Cup Final Four. The marketing of the event what have to step up quite a bit, but I think it could be done.

As for the host team's in the playoffs. From 12-14 no host team made it past the 2nd round. Hopefully the Remparts buck the trend next year.

It's an interesting idea but you have to have a host team, because you have to have a host city. I have no link to it, but I was reading a story a few years ago that the CHL was studying the format. IIRC they came to the conclusion that there were 2 key factors why they had to continue with the current format:

1. Attendance is heavily linked to the home teams fans. They not only packed the home teams games, but also attended other games, wheras they might not go to any games if their team wasn't in the tourney.

2. Volunteers. Lots and lots of hours of work done by people who aren't being paid. Those people are largely made up of hardcore fans of the hometown team.

Your idea might work but only if the tourney alternated between a few very large cities. In the west that would be Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg (who obviously have no team at all). Personally I would hate the day that cities like Saskatoon, Brandon and Kelowna etc etc couldn't host. The flaws in the current format are less than the flaws in any other proposed format imo.

 

[Raimu]

is having a southern Ontario team make a prairie road trip really any worse than what some teams see already? Brandon drives their bus though 2 mountain ranges and across an international border (and crossing the Cascades in the winter can be a pretty hairy experience!) when they play Portland or any of the teams in Washington state. I can't imagine teams from the maritimes facing Gatineau or Val-d'or is much more pleasant either.

To expand on my idea it could see a schedule like this:

68 game schedule
No out of conference games.
1 home and 1 away against teams in other division
6 home and 6 away against teams in their division

That leads me back to the question of: If they're not going to play out of conference, then why bother? If they don't play each other then they're essentially in a separate league anyway.

The only thing this would accomplish is making the Draft and Trade situations more difficult for the players. The league boundaries make it a lot more friendly for the players involved.

I don't think Connor McDavid would be happy being drafted by Bathurst... not only a small market team, but in Quebec and he'd never even get to take a road trip home to play in Ontario.

Conversely I don't think a Nathan MacKinnon wants to go all the way out to Vancouver, and would instead choose to just go NCAA if not traded.

There's enough draft drama as it is, this would likely triple the problem.