Speculation: Melnyk Breaking Point

[Stylizer1]

What happened to Trump? lol

 

[TheNewEra]

Under Eugene Melnyk, Senators have lost $94 million

is this the same article that has been proven wrong multiple times?

 

[Korpse]

Eugene Melnyk has no intention of selling the

Ottawa
Senators





'Underdog' Eugene Melnyk plans to keep Senators - Sportsnet.ca

EIG said the same thing before they sold the Oilers to Katz. Melnyk may say he has no intention of selling but at a certain point it might be something which is in his best interest. He keeps saying it yet we continue to find out talks between him and potential buyers have happened taken place, figure that one out.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I am not positive, but I am pretty sure they are buying the rights to the land with a 49 year lease. Difference being if they default and go bankrupt (like if they went belly up during construction) the land defaults back to the NCC and cannot be claimed by the bank. This prevents banks from being sketchy and essentially stealing the land at a discount. Like I said, not positive.

What part of this do you not understand?

Once the master development agreement is approved, the NCC will retain ownership of 1.6 hectares (four acres) of future green space for public use along Wellington Street, selling the remaining 19.8 hectares (49 acres) of the 21.4-hectare (53-acre) site to RendezVous LeBreton Group.

A milestone announcement for the redevelopment of LeBreton Flats in… | National Capital Commission

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

EIG said the same thing before they sold the Oilers to Katz. Melnyk may say he has no intention of selling but at a certain point it might be something which is in his best interest. He keeps saying it yet we continue to find out talks between him and potential buyers have happened taken place, figure that one out.

I agree, it's in his interest to say he's "in for the long haul" even if he's looking to sell all or part of his franchise ........ as it keeps the "asking price" high.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

What happened to Trump? lol

looks like the [MOD] removed him


Doesn't change the fact that you were wrong in thinking the RLG was going to leasing Lebreton Flats.

So, now that you know Melnyk is buying the land, and building a new arena on that land, on Lebreton Flats ......... do you still maintain your claim that it will cost him more to "run it" than running the CTC does?

 

[JD1]

Melynk is just in it for the money. He has put the bare minimum into the team all these years, pulled out the maximum amount of money, and knows damned well he is going to make hundreds of millions in pure profit from Lebreton.

Hell, to this day he still cheers for the leafs, ffs.

dude you have no idea what you are talking about. none. you're repeating false dogma, nothing more.

at this point in his ownership, owning the Sens has bled Melnyk's pocket. It's increased his net worth but bled his pocket. The net worth increase is only accessible if he sells. Now, all the data and articles that are available support what I just said. If you don't want to believe that, don't. But your being naive. Some on the board here that comment on finances and Melnyk lining his pockets are deliberately naive, others are just naive. Where do you fall?

Lebreton. Hundreds of millions in pure profit. I've wondered about the profitability of lebreton and I researched it a lot. With condo developments I found a number of 12% published by the Toronto Real Estate Board. 12%. The whole deal is 4B. If the whole deal is condos, the profitability is 480 million. over 20 years. but the whole deal isn't condos. Condos are primarily sold with down payments and the profit is recorded once a sale is finalized. There's no such profit on an arena it's built but not sold. throw a number out to build it. 600M? if it makes 20M a year on an operating basis, it'll take 30 years to make that up. But the odds of a rink in this community turning a 20M per annum operating profit are near nil.

So....hundreds of millions...feel free to enlighten me on how he does that....and please hold the "apologist" comments....it's alot easier for me to understand numbers.

if he sells what he has now he can unlock his equity

but please, you brought up the hundreds of millions, so please big boy tell me how that happens

 

[mysens]

JDI, you get it....business is something that you are a realist in. These others have no clue what is involved and speak out of pure hatred and jealousy. The quick math you did is a good gauge of what sort of profits are expected.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Shout out to @CanadasTeam for making this.

 

[JD1]

JDI, you get it....business is something that you are a realist in. These others have no clue what is involved and speak out of pure hatred and jealousy. The quick math you did is a good gauge of what sort of profits are expected.

it's quick math but there is a basis for it. and that is on condo sales at 4B worth of condo sales, with John Ruddy & Trinity et al involved in that aspect of the deal

I don't like what Eugene Melnyk has done with "my" team but that said, there is an economic reality to the situation in this market and I get pissed off when I see posts claiming "hundreds of millions" in profit when those claims wouldn't survive high school level accounting

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

What happened to Trump? lol

Wait, are we suggesting Melnyk b ecome president of Ukraine? I'm in. In fact, I'll contribute to his GoFundMe...
It's going to be hard to keep fans out if they keep comping like crazy. Even Shaila Anwar was looking for them on here Twitter feed, and she posed on the front of the Ottawa Sun with a big taped "X" on her Senators sweater, so yeah...

 

[topshelf15]

Nobody knows what EM puts into his pocket ,but how its been run cant continue....This team cant be run as a AHL feeder team to the league and expect to grow its profits

 

[armani]

dude you have no idea what you are talking about. none. you're repeating false dogma, nothing more.

at this point in his ownership, owning the Sens has bled Melnyk's pocket. It's increased his net worth but bled his pocket. The net worth increase is only accessible if he sells. Now, all the data and articles that are available support what I just said. If you don't want to believe that, don't. But your being naive. Some on the board here that comment on finances and Melnyk lining his pockets are deliberately naive, others are just naive. Where do you fall?

Lebreton. Hundreds of millions in pure profit. I've wondered about the profitability of lebreton and I researched it a lot. With condo developments I found a number of 12% published by the Toronto Real Estate Board. 12%. The whole deal is 4B. If the whole deal is condos, the profitability is 480 million. over 20 years. but the whole deal isn't condos. Condos are primarily sold with down payments and the profit is recorded once a sale is finalized. There's no such profit on an arena it's built but not sold. throw a number out to build it. 600M? if it makes 20M a year on an operating basis, it'll take 30 years to make that up. But the odds of a rink in this community turning a 20M per annum operating profit are near nil.

So....hundreds of millions...feel free to enlighten me on how he does that....and please hold the "apologist" comments....it's alot easier for me to understand numbers.

if he sells what he has now he can unlock his equity

but please, you brought up the hundreds of millions, so please big boy tell me how that happens

Years of poor ownership/management to continuonsly alienate fans (as opposed to growing that base) can do that you. His actions and "cutting corners" mentality speak as loud as any number he is making/losing. I have no doubt he is losing and will financially bleed profusely as long as he is running the ship. Old dogs don't change and a significant number of long-time paying customers are pissed.

I am not debating about down the weeds numbers. It is not a public/shared corporation and we won't know the real numbers. I am talking about the approach and the apparent lack of vision, which is not a shared vision with the fans (i.e. Melnyk's clientele).

 

[HavlatMach9]

Nobody knows what EM puts into his pocket ,but how its been run cant continue....This team cant be run as a AHL feeder team to the league and expect to grow its profits

i don't think Melnyk is doing anything close to bad enough for the NHL to step in. At most, they would tell him not to talk because of the bad press he brings.

 

[BankStreetParade]

it's quick math but there is a basis for it. and that is on condo sales at 4B worth of condo sales, with John Ruddy & Trinity et al involved in that aspect of the deal

I don't like what Eugene Melnyk has done with "my" team but that said, there is an economic reality to the situation in this market and I get pissed off when I see posts claiming "hundreds of millions" in profit when those claims wouldn't survive high school level accounting

Honestly, don't even bother. This is a forum of people who want to believe what they want to believe no matter what evidence or information you post.

 

[topshelf15]

i don't think Melnyk is doing anything close to bad enough for the NHL to step in. At most, they would tell him not to talk because of the bad press he brings.

No but we didnt get here due to lack of fan interest..The team has been run on a shoestring since it entered the league,and the fans are tired of supporting an owner... We all know wont do what it takes to put the best team on the ice year after year...

He can complain all he wants,but in the end its the fanbase that drives the profits...And he needs to start respecting what we want

 

[JD1]

Years of poor ownership/management to continuonsly alienate fans (as opposed to growing that base) can do that you. His actions and "cutting corners" mentality speak as loud as any number he is making/losing. I have no doubt he is losing and will financially bleed profusely as long as he is running the ship. Old dogs don't change and a significant number of long-time paying customers are pissed.

I am not debating about down the weeds numbers. It is not a public/shared corporation and we won't know the real numbers. I am talking about the approach and the apparent lack of vision, which is not a shared vision with the fans (i.e. Melnyk's clientele).

as I understand the numbers the operational losses came from his first 10 years of his ownership so while what you say is convenient in terms of an excuse for lack of support the reality appears to be that crimping down on expenses happened years after losses and seems to be associated with needing to fund an arena

I won't defend the man whatsoever but the majority view of the finances held on this board is simply false

 

[JD1]

No but we didnt get here due to lack of fan interest..The team has been run on a shoestring since it entered the league,and the fans are tired of supporting an owner... We all know wont do what it takes to put the best team on the ice year after year...

He can complain all he wants,but in the end its the fanbase that drives the profits...And he needs to start respecting what we want

sorry dude you're off base

 

[topshelf15]

sorry dude you're off base

How so EM is losing money because of what???And is going to lose more this season because of what?? Everything hinges on fan interest,from tv deals to brand new arenas...

 

[armani]

as I understand the numbers the operational losses came from his first 10 years of his ownership so while what you say is convenient in terms of an excuse for lack of support the reality appears to be that crimping down on expenses happened years after losses and seems to be associated with needing to fund an arena

I won't defend the man whatsoever but the majority view of the finances held on this board is simply false

I don't know nor care for the majority view on a fan forum, nor am I debating what Melnyk makes from CTC events that are not part of direct HRR. The reality is what it is. The onus is on Melnyk wrt how he promotes, grows, and makes his venture profitable. Cutting corners vs. Making bad investments. Neither good.

There's a market here for NHL hockey in this city to have a much higher season ticket base. Look no further than the Redblacks after years of failed CFL in this city to understand what good ownership can do for sporting franchises in this small but growing city.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They only have themselves to blame for the state of this franchise.

Honesty would have gone a long way in his tenure here, but after years of empty promises, terrible pr & marketing, and more recently all out lying, their goose is cooked. Melnyk can stay but he will always be hated by this fan base no matter what happens from here on out.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Nobody knows what EM puts into his pocket ,but how its been run cant continue....This team cant be run as a AHL feeder team to the league and expect to grow its profits

Hummmm, is it just him ...... or did the previous owners have a hard time turning a profit, or being able to operate the team soundly?

Seem to remember the team filing for bankruptcy protection, when EM was not the owner?

Senators File for Bankruptcy

Yes, it was a different time(s) before the Salary Cap and the TV contract(s), but Ottawa is a small market team, and has certain challenges that larger Canadian and US markets don't have to deal with.

People have to accept that no matter who the owner is, they will still have the same challenged, and will always have to operate the Franchise in a different way than the majority of the teams in the league ..... it's just the reality of the Ottawa Senators franchise.

Relocating the Lebreton flats will certainly help this Franchise compete with the larger market teams ......... but thinking that Ottawa can operate like teams in New York, Toronto or Montreal is unrealistic, even after a move to downtown.

 

[Micklebot]

Hummmm, is it just him ...... or did the previous owners have a hard time turning a profit, or being able to operate the team soundly?

Seem to remember the team filing for bankruptcy protection, when EM was not the owner?

Senators File for Bankruptcy

Yes, it was a different time(s) before the Salary Cap and the TV contract(s), but Ottawa is a small market team, and has certain challenges that larger Canadian and US markets don't have to deal with.

People have to accept that no matter who the owner is, they will still have the same challenged, and will always have to operate the Franchise in a different way than the majority of the teams in the league ..... it's just the reality of the Ottawa Senators franchise.

Relocating the Lebreton flats will certainly help this Franchise compete with the larger market teams ......... but thinking that Ottawa can operate like teams in New York, Toronto or Montreal is unrealistic, even after a move to downtown.

Do we really need to bring up all the reasons why the previous ownership had financial problems? Because it certainly wasn't the market that caused the problem.

 

[Take a Bath Son]

This circular discussion over the financial situation is pointless. If he was losing money he would sell.

He’s clearly hanging on for now and very stubbornly so, and this flies in the face of any theory that he’s bleeding cash at a rate that is not sustainable. I think he has some intermittent liquidity issues and I don’t know how quickly he can liquidate his other assets. He seems to try and operate without putting any of his other money to work.

he’s making a huge mistake if he thinks he can keep the team, stay in Kanata and bail on lebreton. Hockey in Kanata with him as owner is not going to work. He’s either gotta sell or get downtown. The time has come, like in any other business, to reinvest in your product. There’s no cheap way out of the current situation.

 

[NorthCoast]

dude you have no idea what you are talking about. none. you're repeating false dogma, nothing more.

at this point in his ownership, owning the Sens has bled Melnyk's pocket. It's increased his net worth but bled his pocket. The net worth increase is only accessible if he sells. Now, all the data and articles that are available support what I just said. If you don't want to believe that, don't. But your being naive. Some on the board here that comment on finances and Melnyk lining his pockets are deliberately naive, others are just naive. Where do you fall?

Lebreton. Hundreds of millions in pure profit. I've wondered about the profitability of lebreton and I researched it a lot. With condo developments I found a number of 12% published by the Toronto Real Estate Board. 12%. The whole deal is 4B. If the whole deal is condos, the profitability is 480 million. over 20 years. but the whole deal isn't condos. Condos are primarily sold with down payments and the profit is recorded once a sale is finalized. There's no such profit on an arena it's built but not sold. throw a number out to build it. 600M? if it makes 20M a year on an operating basis, it'll take 30 years to make that up. But the odds of a rink in this community turning a 20M per annum operating profit are near nil.

So....hundreds of millions...feel free to enlighten me on how he does that....and please hold the "apologist" comments....it's alot easier for me to understand numbers.

if he sells what he has now he can unlock his equity

but please, you brought up the hundreds of millions, so please big boy tell me how that happens

Except that the real figure is 12%-20% for the Toronto market. Plus, a significant factor is the cost is the land, which is 4x what it costs in Ottawa.

You also need to factor the increase in land value into the profits. Sure, they don't realise 100% of this value until they sell, but they will be able to leverage the increased worth of the property for liquidity needed for other projects. Having worked with a billionaire who owns large multi-unit residential properties in Ottawa I can tell you first hand that the value of the property is as important if not more important than any operating profits, because the increases in value has opportunity to be significantly greater than the operating profits.

Hey, I don't know what they will make. But Ruddy is a billionaire and he earned his billions from land developments, and as far as I know this is the largest development he has taken on...so it's pretty safe to say that he is going to make as much or more off this deal than any in his past, which have earned him a billion+.