Speculation: Melnyk Breaking Point

[coladin]

He's a business owner so he likely feels some kind of (misplaced) affinity for Melnyk.

I never suggested turning back and dwelling on what happened. I simply responded to your comment about why fans are having trouble supporting the rebuild. They are having a hard time with it because of the things I outlined. How can you blame them?

You can't just make people forget about all of the god awful decisions and piss poor PR attempts made by the front office. They turned the team into a laughing stock, and fans won't forget that.

The only way to truly move on while EM is still here is to flush the turd of a front office we have and hire an experienced hockey ops team which would include a president to handle all PR and a GM that can operate without an owner with the brain of a goldfish changing his mind every 10 seconds.

People don't trust the team anymore, and until they do, you're gonna have a bad time trying to get full buy in on a "rebuild".

Trust is a big problem, no question. But people are dwelling on the past. in one sentence you say they aren't, and then the next sentence you explain people are having trouble supporting the rebuild. Sounds like dwelling to me. And fans rightfully should feel that way, up to a point. For me, when the preseason started, that helped to take the focus off the BS, and just to watch hockey again. I understand that it may take others longer.

But a rebuild is going on, for a variety of reasons. Performance, finances, culture, etc...

 

[Acidrain66]

Uh huh. I thought you weren't going because of your MelnykOut stance. NOW , it boils down to money. This is what it always boils down to: money. I knew it and you proved it.

All you militants that use the owner as a scapegoat will all be exposed soon enough.

Hey! Do your job and buy the whole section of tickets! Melnyk is counting on you!

 

[topshelf15]

Trust is a big problem, no question. But people are dwelling on the past. in one sentence you say they aren't, and then the next sentence you explain people are having trouble supporting the rebuild. Sounds like dwelling to me. And fans rightfully should feel that way, up to a point. For me, when the preseason started, that helped to take the focus off the BS, and just to watch hockey again. I understand that it may take others longer.

But a rebuild is going on, for a variety of reasons. Performance, finances, culture, etc...

EM has done nothing to ease the minds of fans ,he has made things worse...From fireside chats to leaving everything up in the air concerning our very best team assets ....This rebuild was done at the worst of times ,and without concerns for actual team strength moving forward...It was wreckless ,and ill concieved

 

[topshelf15]

There's so much wrong with this post it's hard to even tell where to begin and your language is so antagonistic.

There is nothing wrong with what I said or how I said it

 

[GrantLemons]

Trust is a big problem, no question. But people are dwelling on the past. in one sentence you say they aren't, and then the next sentence you explain people are having trouble supporting the rebuild. Sounds like dwelling to me. And fans rightfully should feel that way, up to a point. For me, when the preseason started, that helped to take the focus off the BS, and just to watch hockey again. I understand that it may take others longer.

But a rebuild is going on, for a variety of reasons. Performance, finances, culture, etc...

Yep, and most fans do. I would wager most fans are still watching and supporting the team. I am absolutely still watching.

Keeping in mind what's happened the last 18 months =/= dwelling on the past. It means holding the FO accountable for all of idiotic decisions they've made that have subsequently made the entire franchise the laughing stock of the NHL.

We can't just simply forget that. If we do, we're enabling these morons to keep running this team like a mom and pop shop, as opposed to a professional sports franchise.

 

[armani]

Condesecending is as condescending does.

It is a Melnyk thread. Just trying to add some balance. You berate those who go, and I berate those who don't, yet claim to be fans. I just don't believe it that passionate fans would not support the players.

I am here in this thread because I can. If you want to talk about the Melnyk breaking point, then this is what is should be about.

You guys can all do a private conversation and get your jollies out that way, don't know what else to say!

Stopped reading at this bullshit here. Don't make things up, I berate nobody for attending games. Stop lying. Melnyk M.O. You and your alter egos here.

As always, avoid legit questions.

 

[coladin]

I guess if you judge the quality of the product exclusively by the depth they go in the playoffs, he provided a great product. But most people can tell a Cinderella run when they see one and recognize when the the carriage is going to turn back into a pumpkin.

I mean, if you couldn't tell the run wasn't sustainable, that's on you, not the fans that saw through it, but when the team let Methot go and didn't make any attempt to replace him, the only direction anybody could rationally expect the team to go was down.

The product has been left to rot long before the cup run, the warning signs have been there for quite a while. Time after time, we opted for the cheapest option on the coaching market. We let veterans go without replacing them (Gonchar, Spezza, Methot, MacArhur to LTIR, ect) we run a skeleton crew.

Bright business men like Warren Buffet would never let it get to that state. Bright business men know they can't cut corner after corner and expect to yeild positive results long term.

So, if Stahlberg, if he wasn't injured just moments before the goal by Kunitz, is able to corral that d to d pass and score on a sure breakaway, and the Cinderella run continued, would you have sat there, arms crossed and stated that "well, it still isn't sustainable, and everyone will see it", or would you, possibly, just enjoyed cheering for once? I mean, with attitudes like that no wonder this city can't enjoy anything.

So the Finals would have been even less attended because fans would REALLY believe that it is even less sustainable and the pumpkin switch is going to happen sooner or later, or would they cheer and enjoy the Run?

This sounds like apathy to me.

 

[BatherSeason]

Hey! Do your job and buy the whole section of tickets! Melnyk is counting on you!

MySens may be the only poster who can afford a whole section.

 

[BonkTastic]

Stopped reading at this bull**** here. Don't make things up, I berate nobody for attending games. Stop lying.

Seriously.

Armani's been the chillest dude here for like a decade.

 

[coladin]

You can be sure 41 full house CTC nights wouldn't make Eugene spend to the cap

We will never know, will we? The only way that I could turn on ownership is if, with a full building, he ain't spending. But he will always have an out, to point to the seats to blame the budget. You add 10-15M in revenues and I believe that he would increase spending. Just as Brunt and Blair said on their podcast, he wants to win more than anyone.

But we will never know what the potential of the market truly is. If we were at the same capacity as the other Canadian clubs, Karlsson would probably have been signed.

 

[Danythegod]

No, of course not.

I think the majority of fans think EM is a bit of a doofus, and understand that no matter how they feel about him, he's the owner until he decides he no longer wants to be, and don't stay up night, losing sleep about him ........ like the haters do.

Sure, if he sells the team, most people would welcome the change ......... but it would take about a season or two for the EM haters to start to hate the new owner.

false

 

[BonkTastic]

MySens may be the only poster who can afford a whole section.

I can afford an entire section


...nal sofa, to watch the games on my TV.

 

[NorthCoast]

But a rebuild is going on, for a variety of reasons. Performance, finances, culture, etc...

Any time it includes 'finances' it is going to get heated. Because that one trumps the others, so fans will never know if a rebuild would have occurred had finances not been a factor.

 

[harrisb]

Our issue was not replacing Mac, methot, and downgrading Stalberg and wingels, however I’m fine with replacing the latter two with kids. We’ve since shipped Phaneuf for a player we knew would rarely play with no replacement, Hoffman out for boedker (has to be done) and EK gone for 6 pieces. Not to mention Neil May have kept that room together last year and would have played for league minimum.

If we’d have just replaced Mac and methot with suitable replacements and kept phaneuf we’d be in much better shape and those other downstream dominoes probably don’t fall. Our prospect depth would literally be the same as we’d still have the same crop minus some minus pieces that don’t tip the scales considering what we gave up.

You can’t lose that many good pros and not expect the room to suffer. Mac, methot, phaneuf, Neil, Kelly, stalberg, wingels all within a season....

 

[coladin]

EM has done nothing to ease the minds of fans ,he has made things worse...From fireside chats to leaving everything up in the air concerning our very best team assets ....This rebuild was done at the worst of times ,and without concerns for actual team strength moving forward...It was wreckless ,and ill concieved

Had to happen when you lose Karlsson. Last time he tired to minimize the loss of a superstar like Alfie, we ended up with Bobby Ryan. Anyone want that instead? Or should we get another Kovalev?

 

[BonkTastic]

We will never know, will we?

But we will never know what the potential of the market truly is.

If we were at the same capacity as the other Canadian clubs, Karlsson would probably have been signed.

So the first two points aren't up for debate because we'll never know what could have been if only history had unfolded differently, but this third point is immune from that line of reasoning somehow?

 

[Alex1234]

We will never know, will we? The only way that I could turn on ownership is if, with a full building, he ain't spending. But he will always have an out, to point to the seats to blame the budget. You add 10-15M in revenues and I believe that he would increase spending. Just as Brunt and Blair said on their podcast, he wants to win more than anyone.

But we will never know what the potential of the market truly is. If we were at the same capacity as the other Canadian clubs, Karlsson would probably have been signed.

He wants more money in his pocket
Thats what he meant

 

[coladin]

Yep, and most fans do. I would wager most fans are still watching and supporting the team. I am absolutely still watching.

Keeping in mind what's happened the last 18 months =/= dwelling on the past. It means holding the FO accountable for all of idiotic decisions they've made that have subsequently made the entire franchise the laughing stock of the NHL.

We can't just simply forget that. If we do, we're enabling these morons to keep running this team like a mom and pop shop, as opposed to a professional sports franchise.

I don't think the filled ACC enabled Toronto did it? Every franchise wants to win, that is what it is all about. Toronto finally are on the right track, but they didn't need a message from fans to gut the team. I don't think their fan base enabled them to keep losing. They have sky high revenues. Took a while, sure, but fans there never wavered in their support for the Leafs, even through incredibly bad years. I wish we were like that in some ways.

 

[coladin]

Seriously.

Armani's been the chillest dude here for like a decade.

Not really!

 

[Ice-Tray]

Just a though, even a compromise maybe.

When you refer to the market as "weak", it can come across to some like: "to weak to be in the NHL", or "weakest int he NHL". I am not saying that you are insinuating these, just that it can be percieved that way.

Same as when a poster says that the market is "fine". Does fine mean it is top half in terms of viability, or does it mean it won't go into bankruptcy?


Can we agree that the sens are somewhere around the top end of the bottom 1/3 of teams in terms of viability?

ie:

Calgary
New Jersey
Columbus
Ottawa
Buffalo
New York Islanders
Winnipeg
Carolina
Florida
Arizona

Not an exact order as teams can move up/down this list from year to year. But based on revenues, I think it is safe to say that Ottawa would fall into the top half of this group most years.


I just get the feeling that most people here are shouting past each other sometimes when they actually agree.

"This market is weak and we will never compete with the big markets"

vs

"This market is fine compared to many other NHL markets and therefore relocation should not be an issue."

Therefore disagreement here is actually not about the market, but about what is realistically possible given the market.

I think an important question is this:

If new ownership comes in and invests more money on the team (not immediately because we're in a rebuild) and reaffirms fan faith in the franchise, are the fans going to spend adequately to fund a cap or near cap team?

Consider a new downtown arena, consider tickets that are more expensive, in line with the rest of the country. In order to run a cap team with todays cap, and not lose money, the fans will have to recommit to filling the arena at prices that are more expensive than they ever have been.

There has been much made about the struggles of ownership since day one, but even a money man coming in isn't going to want to lose money each year, no matter how much the 'value' of the team increases. Fan support should be expected to at the very least cover expenses, and to run an 80 million dollar cap team, Ottawa fans are going to seriously have to ante up like they never have before.

Given that the team has had a hard time selling out the arena at bargain basement pricing for Canada, it has me wondering whether the money is actually there in the city to back fan desires for a competitive, near-cap team.

There is a very real fear that a new owner would eventually end up like the old owner, unable or unwilling to continue to take loses to keep a team competitive, after fans refuse to come out in droves at prices needed to fund that type of team.

The sentiment in here seems overwhelmingly that people want an owner to come in and be willing to lose money each year on the team because they are able to make money elsewhere, either on arena rentals, or other businesses. While a nice idea, it makes very little sense, and as an expectation is crazy entitled. Any new owner would be have to be gambling that fans would be willing to spend like they never have before...

 

[coladin]

Stopped reading at this bull**** here. Don't make things up, I berate nobody for attending games. Stop lying. Melnyk M.O. You and your alter egos here.

As always, avoid legit questions.

You have, re-read your posts. And I answered it , but , like many here, you just don't like my answer.

 

[armani]

Thread derailment at full speed thanks to the usual suspects. Yet the barn is getting emptier.

#MelnykBoycott #EmptyCTC #MelnykOut

Sorry Melnyk disciples, your boss is barely scratching the surface of the fans wrath. It's going to get worse.

 

[mysens]

MySens may be the only poster who can afford a whole section.

No can do....I have 4 Club Bell lodge seats.....plus a couple here and there that could be up for grabs at times. I will let my favorite peeps out there know if you want to go.....the kids have been putting on a great show

 

[Danythegod]

@coladin @Tnuoc Alucard

 

[coladin]

Any time it includes 'finances' it is going to get heated. Because that one trumps the others, so fans will never know if a rebuild would have occurred had finances not been a factor.

Finances are always a factor in a rebuild. Management is saying "guys, we are going nowhere with a 75M payroll and still missing the playoffs. Let's trip it down and start over because we are losing, and spending a lot of money losing".

It is a factor most of the time. Not every time. And just one of many factors. Whether it is first on your list or second or third, I don't think it makes much difference, to me anyways, because rebuilds have many factors.