Speculation: #Melnkyout...The time is NOW!

[bert]

I have no doubt apathy is real nor do I doubt that Melnyk is the source.

good luck managing it....life can be tough when apathy sets in.

Thats quite the condescending post.

 

[CTC]

Are you saying the Bell did not pay for those tickets?[/QUOTE

Are you saying they did?

I am just saying it makes it easier for people to go to a game and bolster attendance #'s when you have sponsors and companies paying for the tickets and handing them out to the public. I bought BOGO tickets for San Jose and received free tickets to the upcoming Colorado game, yes I will be in attendance then, but no...technically, I will not have paid for that game. So I think its fair to say that there are lots of tickets being handed out in promotions, whether a company buys it or not is not indicative to me that people are going to the games out of their own wallet. Would they go if they had to pay for it themselves or is it easier to go to the game if your tickets are covered? If you follow me.

 

[Bileur]

It's you.

My family members have specifically stated they want no Senators gear or tickets for xmas this year. The apathy is real and it's 100% due to Melnyck.

Same. I have also spent money on NFL, CFL and MLB gear for myself and my son that would definitely have gone to sens gear but for the boycott.

 

[Agent Zub]

The latest lawsuit shows why the boycott is so silly. Why deprive yourself of hockey over $30 when someone else can hit them way harder for $1,000,000,000.

You realize it adds up?

Why do you think Melnyk and Dorion we're spewing so much lies over the summer to get people to buy tickets?

 

[Fandlauer]

Gate is down 24% from last year.

- ChirpEd- The Financial State of the Ottawa Senators (2018 Edition)

So, the team was out of cash and was thrown a life preserver by BMO. With this new borrowing, and assuming the teams cash burn remains constant, they should have enough capital to cover operations until about March 2020. However according to this source attendance is down further this year and that will likely speed up the cash burn. Unless the team can get further loans, their finances look to be getting really, really shaky by about December 31, of next year unless they do something drastic.

Sure looks like the Boycott and Apathy are speeding up Melnyk's departure.

 

[The Lewler]

I love Linguo the Grammar Robot.

 

[justafan22]

View attachment 167173

Gate is down 24% from last year.

- ChirpEd- The Financial State of the Ottawa Senators (2018 Edition)



Sure looks like the Boycott and Apathy are speeding up Melnyk's departure.

Seems like Melnyk is asset rich, cash poor

 

[Xspyrit]

All the boycott does is making the excuse for Melnyk to spend even less. In the end, it could be the reason for Duchene and Stone trades; like it was for Karlsson, "not enough money" to pay them.

This is such a stupid vicious circle. Some fans are mad because big players don't get paid so they get traded, then those fans boycott, then the same circle starts all over again.

Lebreton is the only hope for a future of a NHL team in Ottawa, unless Melnyk sells to an owner that won't mind losing money for years (with the asset, not the rink), which I don't believe is realistic

 

[Gil Gunderson]

All the boycott does is making the excuse for Melnyk to spend even less. In the end, it could be the reason for Duchene and Stone trades; like it was for Karlsson, "not enough money" to pay them.

This is such a stupid vicious circle. Some fans are mad because big players don't get paid so they get traded, then those fans boycott, then the same circle starts all over again.

Lebreton is the only hope for a future of a NHL team in Ottawa, unless Melnyk sells to an owner that won't mind losing money for years (with the asset, not the rink)

Excuse or no excuse, boycott or no boycott, the result will be the same.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

View attachment 167173

Gate is down 24% from last year.

- ChirpEd- The Financial State of the Ottawa Senators (2018 Edition)



Sure looks like the Boycott and Apathy are speeding up Melnyk's departure.

As we all knew, the loss of money is primarily due to Melnyk's debt expenses, not the market or fanbase.

This team would be consistently profitable with stable ownership. I have no doubt about it.

 

[Xspyrit]

Excuse or no excuse, boycott or no boycott, the result will be the same.

The result? you mean Duchene and Stone gone?

Yeah ok, but it could also be one of White, Chabot or Takchuk. That 11 M$ lost in gate revenue MIGHT make a difference in the end. Basically, Sens fans are shooting themselves in the foot. Make the "poor" owner (businessmen think asset wise) even poorer. In the end, he'll still be filthy rich (personally) and we'll have to endure more years like that.

As we all knew, the loss of money is primarily due to Melnyk's debt expenses, not the market or fanbase.

This team would be consistently profitable with stable ownership. I have no doubt about it.

How do you think that debt got created? Because the team never been profitable enough to pay the debt, so instead of paying like a better market would, it adds up.

Ottawa is not a viable NHL market anymore with the current arena location and size of the customer base. The salary cap has more than doubled in 12 years.

 

[The Lewler]

The result? you mean Duchene and Stone gone?

Yeah ok, but it could also be one of White, Chabot or Takchuk. That 11 M$ lost in gate revenue MIGHT make a difference in the end. Basically, Sens fans are shooting themselves in the foot. Make the "poor" owner (businessmen think asset wise) even poorer. In the end, he'll still be filthy rich (personally) and we'll have to endure more years like that.



How do you think that debt got created? Because the team never been profitable enough to pay the debt, so instead of paying like a better market would, it adds up.

Ottawa is not a viable NHL market anymore with the current arena location and size of the customer base. The salary cap has more than doubled in 12 years.

Source?

Based on what I was told, money has been re-directed from the team to other ventures, both commercial and personal. So that's cash that could have been deployed against debt, for example. And no, I won't reveal source so you can dismiss it if you like.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

The result? you mean Duchene and Stone gone?

Yeah ok, but it could also be one of White, Chabot or Takchuk. That 11 M$ lost in gate revenue MIGHT make a difference in the end. Basically, Sens fans are shooting themselves in the foot. Make the "poor" owner (businessmen think asset wise) even poorer. In the end, he'll still be filthy rich (personally) and we'll have to endure more years like that.



How do you think that debt got created? Because the team never been profitable enough to pay the debt, so instead of paying like a better market would, it adds up.

Ottawa is not a viable NHL market anymore with the current arena location and size of the customer base. The salary cap has more than doubled in 12 years.

But all those years with huge losses came about because of debt, not operating.

Ottawa is usually in the 15-20 range in operating income and revenue (not counting 2018 because of #MelnykOut). Those are numbers that actually indicate the viability of the market and fanbase, while debt does not.

The debt, IMO, is due to Melnyk's ability (or inability) to own a sports franchise.

 

[Upgrayedd]

The result? you mean Duchene and Stone gone?

Yeah ok, but it could also be one of White, Chabot or Takchuk. That 11 M$ lost in gate revenue MIGHT make a difference in the end. Basically, Sens fans are shooting themselves in the foot. Make the "poor" owner (businessmen think asset wise) even poorer. In the end, he'll still be filthy rich (personally) and we'll have to endure more years like that.



How do you think that debt got created? Because the team never been profitable enough to pay the debt, so instead of paying like a better market would, it adds up.

Ottawa is not a viable NHL market anymore with the current arena location and size of the customer base. The salary cap has more than doubled in 12 years.

I respect your posts bigtime but personally I will not be held hostage by this owner any longer, I'm fully prepared for pain here and already assume Duchene and Stone etc.. are out the door...I know I would be if I was an elite player and I'm a die hard fan of the team lol.

Im stubborn so id rather see the team fold up shop and never here from this guy again than have what's currently occurring with a greedy owner basically syphoning off cash for his personal fun times from many local residents of this fine city all the while laughing at them proclaiming "bare bones" everything! As was mentioned, it would suck for many years but I would still like and watch NHL hockey, just not in Ottawa. Im close to apathy mode because of Melnyk.

Also love that work Linguo did over on Chirp, really great stuff that the shameless media won't touch!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'd rather check out forever than support Melnyk again. Losing Stone and Duchene is just another casualty in the long list of them.

 

[Stylizer1]

All the boycott does is making the excuse for Melnyk to spend even less. In the end, it could be the reason for Duchene and Stone trades; like it was for Karlsson, "not enough money" to pay them.

This is such a stupid vicious circle. Some fans are mad because big players don't get paid so they get traded, then those fans boycott, then the same circle starts all over again.

Lebreton is the only hope for a future of a NHL team in Ottawa, unless Melnyk sells to an owner that won't mind losing money for years (with the asset, not the rink), which I don't believe is realistic

I would rather have a team with ZERO assets and a new owner then help Melnyk sign any player.

 

[topshelf15]

I would rather have a team with ZERO assets and a new owner than help Melnyk sign any player.

EM doesnt deserve our support,nor does he deserve the chance at building a centerpiece in the capital of Canada....The guy has done nothing except lie and cast blame ....

 

[GCK]

As we all knew, the loss of money is primarily due to Melnyk's debt expenses, not the market or fanbase.

This team would be consistently profitable with stable ownership. I have no doubt about it.

Well that is not even close to that estimate.

2017 - prior to boycott.

Net loss 6M.

Debt servicing 12M.
Playoffs 18M.

This shows a loss of 12M if you exclude debt sevicing and playoff revenue.

How do you explain that ?

 

[coladin]

As we all knew, the loss of money is primarily due to Melnyk's debt expenses, not the market or fanbase.

This team would be consistently profitable with stable ownership. I have no doubt about it.

Looking at those numbers, even without debt servicing , not sure how that possible with whomever owns the team. A new owner will have to raise prices. I'm fine with that, but many won't. And I think Chirp's revenues are high. I also didn't see the NHL 100M line of credit on the equation?

Either way, grim. Not sure even a new owner can fix the equation. Reminds me of the time when Bruce Firestone owned the Rough Riders and raised prices to cover the team and failed miserably.

 

[coladin]

But all those years with huge losses came about because of debt, not operating.

Ottawa is usually in the 15-20 range in operating income and revenue (not counting 2018 because of #MelnykOut). Those are numbers that actually indicate the viability of the market and fanbase, while debt does not.

The debt, IMO, is due to Melnyk's ability (or inability) to own a sports franchise.

From the Operating Income , you have to pay your mortgages and borrowing costs. True, debt servicing cuts into that, but revenues are challenging with payroll climbing to dangerous levels for small market teams.

 

[hawthy]

I find myself caring less and less the more this goes. I dislike Melnyk; I dislike the way the team is run; I dislike the way seemingly likable, long-serving members of the organization (on and off the ice) have been unceremoniously booted out the door; I dislike that the excitement I had for Sens hockey for over 25-years has been eroded to the bone; I could go on....

....But really, I find myself caring less and less with each passing day - and I think it's a mechanism of coping with everything that's been snowballing for a while with the Senators. Maybe some call me a "boycotter". I don't mind that. I mean, I don't feel as though I'm boycotting, but I don't care one way or another about the label. I'm just disinterested at this point - and I think it has to do with managing my frustration of where this has come. The f***ed up thing is I have disposable income to spend and I know others who have disposable income to spend (and I'm sure there are others out there too), but the trust and the likability of the Ottawa Senators is just....gone....I'm very happy I with the choice to not spend money on the Sens this year and my reasoning hasn't changed (principles), but what's changing now is that I don't care. I'm not fired up about it the way I was before. It feels hopeless - each lie, mismanaged asset, broken promise, sexual assault, lawsuit, counter lawsuit, uber video, traded star, character problem, owner threat, tribute video,....it feels hopeless.

Chabot is awesome; Tkachuk is awesome; White looks like a keeper; Formenton and Batherson look like bonefide NHLers in a few years....yet I find myself mostly disinterested and it just increases every time I hear Melnyk state his (true or false) intentions to remain the owner of the franchise long-term, or with each set back to any minuscule shred or optimism with anything Sens-related . Without question, I am a Sens fan - but I just don't care the way I used to. Like I've said before, I used to care and that passion and fire I have that would normally have caused me to arrange vacations, amend evening plans, budget my money (and sometimes even blow that budget) or structure evenings out with my lady friend AROUND the Senators still exists within me - and has a path back - but I'm pretty comfortable saying that this year, next year, 5-years, at Lebreton, in Kanata, whatever....yeah, my dislike and mistrust of Melnyk and hockey operations trumps my Sens fandom.

I'm not making some grandeur, denunciation of a statement turning in my Sens fan card; I still want this team to win. I have just come to realize that, you know what? I don't really care - because they don't seem to really care. There's zero hope of any sustained "goodness" or stability in our current situation and there is seemingly no light at the end of the tunnel with anything to do with the myriad of issues plaguing the organization - or any willingness to fix it from ownership - so they can just continue on as they are. If someone or something can get this fixed and regain some semblance of respectability and professionalism to our NHL team - I'm back, 100%. For me, that's a new owner, and new hockey ops department and a commitment to run a high-standard organization. Rebuilds aren't always fun, but I'm far from a fair-weathered fan. Thing is, this isn't a rebuild and the organization knows it. This is what it looks like when an owner slashes spending to the core, stands behind the prospects that (to give credit where it's due) were good draft selections it would appear - and in less than a season goes from competing to "rebuilding" in the blink of an eye. You're gullible if you believe this is what a rebuild should be.

I like you guys/gals and I like coming on here and hearing your perspectives, whether I agree with them or not - and that won't change. I just....don't care as much....and if the people who don't go out of a desired end game (or in my case, principle) stop caring - that is scary for the Senators in Ottawa.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Well that is not even close to that estimate.

2017 - prior to boycott.

Net loss 6M.

Debt servicing 12M.
Playoffs 18M.

This shows a loss of 12M if you exclude debt sevicing and playoff revenue.

How do you explain that ?

I don't think there's a path for this team to be "consistently profitable". However, there is a path for this team to be near break even, and for an NHL team in a medium Canadian market, that's attractive for any ownership group. The wealth generation from owning an NHL team is in the increase of franchise value, so if the hockey team can break even year-to-year from operations, that's great.

Based on the numbers above, here's a realistic scenario, with a new ownership group and reinvigorated fanbase.

Gate: $55,000,000 (You would need to average ~18,000 fans per game to hit this mark with an avg ticket price of $72)
Parking, licensing, etc: $27,000,000 (slight increase with increase attendance)
Playoffs: $6,000,000 (if the team makes the first round, which should always be a realistic goal)
TV revenue: $53,000,000 (stays flat)
Revenue sharing: $6,000,000 (stays flat)

Player expenses: $80,000,000 (middle of the pack in the league)
Other expenses: $64,000,000 (slight increase to beef up staff)
Interest on debt: $6,000,000 (if debt burden is cut in half)

Total revenue: $147M
Total expenses: $150M

So a $3M loss.

Obviously this is super high-level math, but it's not as dire a picture as some would lead you to believe. Challenging? Sure. But doable.

And in the last 10 years, this franchise has appreciated by over $200M in value. That's not bad if over that same period, losses from operations were to be ~$30M.

 

[coladin]

I find myself caring less and less the more this goes. I dislike Melnyk; I dislike the way the team is run; I dislike the way seemingly likable, long-serving members of the organization (on and off the ice) have been unceremoniously booted out the door; I dislike that the excitement I had for Sens hockey for over 25-years has been eroded to the bone; I could go on....

....But really, I find myself caring less and less with each passing day - and I think it's a mechanism of coping with everything that's been snowballing for a while with the Senators. Maybe some call me a "boycotter". I don't mind that. I mean, I don't feel as though I'm boycotting, but I don't care one way or another about the label. I'm just disinterested at this point - and I think it has to do with managing my frustration of where this has come. The ****ed up thing is I have disposable income to spend and I know others who have disposable income to spend (and I'm sure there are others out there too), but the trust and the likability of the Ottawa Senators is just....gone....I'm very happy I with the choice to not spend money on the Sens this year and my reasoning hasn't changed (principles), but what's changing now is that I don't care. I'm not fired up about it the way I was before. It feels hopeless - each lie, mismanaged asset, broken promise, sexual assault, lawsuit, counter lawsuit, uber video, traded star, character problem, owner threat, tribute video,....it feels hopeless.

Chabot is awesome; Tkachuk is awesome; White looks like a keeper; Formenton and Batherson look like bonefide NHLers in a few years....yet I find myself mostly disinterested and it just increases every time I hear Melnyk state his (true or false) intentions to remain the owner of the franchise long-term, or with each set back to any minuscule shred or optimism with anything Sens-related . Without question, I am a Sens fan - but I just don't care the way I used to. Like I've said before, I used to care and that passion and fire I have that would normally have caused me to arrange vacations, amend evening plans, budget my money (and sometimes even blow that budget) or structure evenings out with my lady friend AROUND the Senators still exists within me - and has a path back - but I'm pretty comfortable saying that this year, next year, 5-years, at Lebreton, in Kanata, whatever....yeah, my dislike and mistrust of Melnyk and hockey operations trumps my Sens fandom.

I'm not making some grandeur, denunciation of a statement turning in my Sens fan card; I still want this team to win. I have just come to realize that, you know what? I don't really care - because they don't seem to really care. There's zero hope of any sustained "goodness" or stability in our current situation and there is seemingly no light at the end of the tunnel with anything to do with the myriad of issues plaguing the organization - or any willingness to fix it from ownership - so they can just continue on as they are. If someone or something can get this fixed and regain some semblance of respectability and professionalism to our NHL team - I'm back, 100%. For me, that's a new owner, and new hockey ops department and a commitment to run a high-standard organization. Rebuilds aren't always fun, but I'm far from a fair-weathered fan. Thing is, this isn't a rebuild and the organization knows it. This is what it looks like when an owner slashes spending to the core, stands behind the prospects that (to give credit where it's due) were good draft selections it would appear - and in less than a season goes from competing to "rebuilding" in the blink of an eye. You're gullible if you believe this is what a rebuild should be.

I like you guys/gals and I like coming on here and hearing your perspectives, whether I agree with them or not - and that won't change. I just....don't care as much....and if the people who don't go out of a desired end game (or in my case, principle) stop caring - that is scary for the Senators in Ottawa.

In all seriousness, I respect how you feel and sorry that you feel that way. Sports , and having an NHL team ultimately shouldn't make anyone feel this way. Respect.

 

[Senscore]

I would rather have a team with ZERO assets and a new owner then help Melnyk sign any player.

 

[Agent Zub]

I find myself caring less and less the more this goes. I dislike Melnyk; I dislike the way the team is run; I dislike the way seemingly likable, long-serving members of the organization (on and off the ice) have been unceremoniously booted out the door; I dislike that the excitement I had for Sens hockey for over 25-years has been eroded to the bone; I could go on....

....But really, I find myself caring less and less with each passing day - and I think it's a mechanism of coping with everything that's been snowballing for a while with the Senators. Maybe some call me a "boycotter". I don't mind that. I mean, I don't feel as though I'm boycotting, but I don't care one way or another about the label. I'm just disinterested at this point - and I think it has to do with managing my frustration of where this has come. The ****ed up thing is I have disposable income to spend and I know others who have disposable income to spend (and I'm sure there are others out there too), but the trust and the likability of the Ottawa Senators is just....gone....I'm very happy I with the choice to not spend money on the Sens this year and my reasoning hasn't changed (principles), but what's changing now is that I don't care. I'm not fired up about it the way I was before. It feels hopeless - each lie, mismanaged asset, broken promise, sexual assault, lawsuit, counter lawsuit, uber video, traded star, character problem, owner threat, tribute video,....it feels hopeless.

Chabot is awesome; Tkachuk is awesome; White looks like a keeper; Formenton and Batherson look like bonefide NHLers in a few years....yet I find myself mostly disinterested and it just increases every time I hear Melnyk state his (true or false) intentions to remain the owner of the franchise long-term, or with each set back to any minuscule shred or optimism with anything Sens-related . Without question, I am a Sens fan - but I just don't care the way I used to. Like I've said before, I used to care and that passion and fire I have that would normally have caused me to arrange vacations, amend evening plans, budget my money (and sometimes even blow that budget) or structure evenings out with my lady friend AROUND the Senators still exists within me - and has a path back - but I'm pretty comfortable saying that this year, next year, 5-years, at Lebreton, in Kanata, whatever....yeah, my dislike and mistrust of Melnyk and hockey operations trumps my Sens fandom.

I'm not making some grandeur, denunciation of a statement turning in my Sens fan card; I still want this team to win. I have just come to realize that, you know what? I don't really care - because they don't seem to really care. There's zero hope of any sustained "goodness" or stability in our current situation and there is seemingly no light at the end of the tunnel with anything to do with the myriad of issues plaguing the organization - or any willingness to fix it from ownership - so they can just continue on as they are. If someone or something can get this fixed and regain some semblance of respectability and professionalism to our NHL team - I'm back, 100%. For me, that's a new owner, and new hockey ops department and a commitment to run a high-standard organization. Rebuilds aren't always fun, but I'm far from a fair-weathered fan. Thing is, this isn't a rebuild and the organization knows it. This is what it looks like when an owner slashes spending to the core, stands behind the prospects that (to give credit where it's due) were good draft selections it would appear - and in less than a season goes from competing to "rebuilding" in the blink of an eye. You're gullible if you believe this is what a rebuild should be.

I like you guys/gals and I like coming on here and hearing your perspectives, whether I agree with them or not - and that won't change. I just....don't care as much....and if the people who don't go out of a desired end game (or in my case, principle) stop caring - that is scary for the Senators in Ottawa.

ive been watching san jose games and honestly its such a breath of fresh air. imagine cheering for a team that actually attempts to be competitive by keeping and acquiring stars rather than peddling them off as soon as they ask for the money they deserve.

to everyone saying that the boycott is going to make us lose players like duchene and stone lol. we weren't going to sign them anyway.