Speculation: Mega-Thread: Jack Eichel, Part II

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Da Big Apple
Check the board rules again:
View attachment 352619

I did.
My emphasis that we are best served by free expression as much as possible is not spam, nor in conflict with the rules.

Below is #4 for terms of service:
"Contains any information or content that we deem to be unlawful, harmful, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, harassing, humiliating to other people (publicly or otherwise), libelous, threatening, or otherwise objectionable;"

These are not held, in a standard of law under which [pretty much any and all] entities [including Crave/Mandatory/Evolve etc.] lawfully operate, equaling restrictions on free speech.
Those are proper legal identifications to conduct which is illegal due to the consequence of the speech [a distinction as opposed to speech itself].
You've heard you have the right to say almost anything, but you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre unless there actually is a fire? That's what this entails.

Although the powers that be have great authority, they surely are aware, to quote something you have heard before, that with great power comes great responsibility.
IF arbitrary restrictions on free speech took place [without the valid justification identified herein], that would not serve anyone well, as suppression of free speech inevitably prompts pushback for liberty, and that could result in all kinds of complaints to the ultimate powers that be here -- again IF that were the case, WERE censorship to happen. In fact, the ultimate judges here are not even the highest ups in any company or entity, because appeal can be made to the people to boycott.

Companies/entities are not so stupid as to challenge the will of the people.

PS - this is NOT an exercise in playing mod. This is a statement of opinion. I am not saying how mods are to conduct business; I am saying that free speech is a constant and setting aside any inclination to fight for it as a matter of virtue, ANY business failing to embrace it ultimately reaps the consequences for such decision.
 
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Feb 27, 2002
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How can you say kakko will be a 1st line winger when his underlying stats suggests he shouldn't even be in the nhl. That first round prospect can bust so easily. Fox is the best piece and I believe he will be a top pairing dmen.

As I have said earlier, if Sabre fans are looking to get back another Eichel, they're going to be very disappointed.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
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I did.
My emphasis that we are best served by free expression as much as possible is not spam, nor in conflict with the rules.

Below is #4 for terms of service:
"Contains any information or content that we deem to be unlawful, harmful, abusive, racially or ethnically offensive, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, harassing, humiliating to other people (publicly or otherwise), libelous, threatening, or otherwise objectionable;"

These are not held, in a standard of law under which [pretty much any and all] entities [including Crave/Mandatory/Evolve etc.] lawfully operate, equaling restrictions on free speech.
Those are proper legal identifications to conduct which is illegal due to the consequence of the speech [a distinction as opposed to speech itself].
You've heard you have the right to say almost anything, but you can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theatre unless there actually is a fire? That's what this entails.

Although the powers that be have great authority, they surely are aware, to quote something you have heard before, that with great power comes great responsibility.
IF arbitrary restrictions on free speech took place [without the valid justification identified herein], that would not serve anyone well, as suppression of free speech inevitably prompts pushback for liberty, and that could result in all kinds of complaints to the ultimate powers that be here -- again IF that were the case, WERE censorship to happen. In fact, the ultimate judges here are not even the highest ups in any company or entity, because appeal can be made to the people to boycott.

Companies/entities are not so stupid as to challenge the will of the people.

PS - this is NOT an exercise in playing mod. This is a statement of opinion. I am not saying how mods are to conduct business; I am saying that free speech is a constant and setting aside any inclination to fight for it as a matter of virtue, ANY business failing to embrace it ultimately reaps the consequences for such decision.
3) Spamming: Posts that advertise anything without the authorization of site Administrators may be considered “spam”. If you wish to advertise on HFBoards please contact [email protected]. No money leagues are allowed in the Fantasy Talk forum. Do not post the same content multiple times, whether on the same forum, or across multiple forums.
4) Threadjacking/OT/Politics: Posts that waste space or time on the site, annoy users due to characteristics or repetition, disrupt the site functionality, or cause threads to veer off topic may be considered “threadjacking/OT”. This also applies to signatures, user titles, avatars, profile fields, and so forth. Stay on topic as much as possible. Post new threads in the appropriate forum only. Political discussion is not permitted on the forums except within the narrowly defined scope of hockey-related matters.

Posting the same exact topic 50,000 times is clearly no bueno.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
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Ok great and now how about the 7th overall pick in a deep draft and the Devils best player who is 21 years old as well

Eichel played a full year in college before coming to the NHL. Bit different than going from the USNDTP straight to the NHL

He played in college in his pre draft year because of when is birthday was and state entry rules on birthdays in school. It was not his draft_ 1 yr he spent in college.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
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He played in college in his pre draft year because of when is birthday was and state entry rules on birthdays in school. It was not his draft_ 1 yr he spent in college.

yes, I am aware. He still went from the NTDP to college to the NHL. Hughes did not get that opportunity due to his age.

Its almost like we should quit making blanket statements about 18 year old prospects.
 

Beerz

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Jun 28, 2011
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As I have said earlier, if Sabre fans are looking to get back another Eichel, they're going to be very disappointed.

Haven't heard one person say we need to get back another Eichel in the deal... I have heard there should be more established players in these offers. Who would place their bets on Kakko to be a slam dunk star player after his first season? ... Nobody. Kakko would be a sweetener .. not the centerpiece.

You would need

An established NHL player in the good to very good range.

A promising prospect with a high ceiling

And a 1st round pick or another promising prospect
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
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Didn't want to start a new thread cause there's been so many. I also acknowledge that unless Eichel asks for a trade there's no way in hell you trade him.

I also acknowledge that Buffalo should probably be doing everything do build around Eichel and trading him makes no sense. All that aside I've just been very curious to know if anyone else out there at all would consider a deal like this based on value alone.

Ottawa: 3 + 5 + Brannstrom + (Multiple 2nd round picks?) Or something else?

Buffalo: Eichel

I figure Tkachuk or Chabot will definitely be asked for and I get it, but even in my mind then it becomes not worth it for Ottawa. Buffalo gets to add Stutzle/Byfield to replace Eichel in a couple years plus one of Drysdale/Raymond/Perfetti or even Rossi if you wanted to bulk up on another center. I thought about adding in the NYI first as well but with Brannstrom being their only real good D prospect maybe they could add a Schneider or Guhle, but I'd include it as well for three first round picks in a loaded first round.

If this absolutely sucks I apologize. Don't lynch me. Purely for my own curiosity.

I've seen worse. But doesn't really move the needle for me.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Da Big Apple
["]….Posts that waste … annoy users due to … repetition... may be considered … {etc.}… ["]

Posting the same exact topic 50,000 times is clearly no bueno.

You took it upon yourself to judge my comment as spam.
I asked you to explain, and you went to the above.

Does not apply.

Someone requested thread be closed (prematurely) [as opposed to allowing it to die a natural death].

I voted -- as each of us is in his rights to so do -- for thread to be open on general principle that positives of such policy outweigh negatives.

But that was not repetition of an exact topic as you allege, because it was noting and applying my comment to this thread on this subject at this time.

The mods correctly construed it as to THIS variation on a theme.

Hence your allegation of infraction is wrong,
 

OLUSAF

Registered User
Sep 8, 2007
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These guys aren't at the same level. You might (stress the might) have a deal if its Georgiyev + Strome, but if you think you are getting Kakko, Chytil, 2 firsts, + taking two of our best complimentary players in Buchnevich and DeAngelo, thats way too much for us to give up. If you want Buchnevich and DeAngelo so badly, you have to at least take away 2 of those other pieces. We aren't giving up six key pieces for one player with one piece being a top 50 asset in the league in Kakko. Thats not a realistic return for Buffalo to get.

I’m not really asking from a Buffalo perspective. Definitely more of a Rangers fan than Buffalo but I’m a Leafs fan, this is just my opinion on what a realistic deal would look like like.

I would agree that Buchnevich + Dangelo are the more valuable players in the roster player category.

I guess I could have said a combination of 2 of the 4 players mentioned but I think at least one of Buchnevich or Dangelo + one of Strome or Georgiev would be fair.

Also not two 1sts, one or the other.
 

is the answer jesus

Registered User
Mar 10, 2008
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Tonawanda, NY
The massive amount of Eichel threads and discussion clearly means people find the topic interesting.
I mean it's certainly an interesting exercise to see what fans would offer for a star player locked up long-term in his prime. Problem being the offers are almost all trash. That then gets pointed out by Sabres fans and people feel the need to defend their garbage proposals usually with things like: "You'll never get fair value if a star player asks for a trade", or "You can't expect us to trade one of our best roster players for your star player". So basically for Sabres fans the idea of trading Eichel for the garbage offered in this and other threads isn't interesting in the least and I believe that is what he was getting at.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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If Eichel is traded, the return is going to suck, because a team stupid enough to trade Eichel with years of team control is not smart enough to get a good return.

I call this the Joe Thornton paradox.

See, Thornton, Seguin, Hall, Ryan O'Reilly, etc.
 
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GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
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I mean it's certainly an interesting exercise to see what fans would offer for a star player locked up long-term in his prime. Problem being the offers are almost all trash. That then gets pointed out by Sabres fans and people feel the need to defend their garbage proposals usually with things like: "You'll never get fair value if a star player asks for a trade", or "You can't expect us to trade one of our best roster players for your star player". So basically for Sabres fans the idea of trading Eichel for the garbage offered in this and other threads isn't interesting in the least and I believe that is what he was getting at.
With speculation of Eichel being unhappy years after he was drafted, it's only natural people will discuss trade scenarios. What seems to get lost is that any star requesting a trade is going to hamper the return, and because the speculation is that Eichel is unhappy, the next logical thought would be that if he were to be moved its because a trade was requested. Almost everyone acknowledges Buffalo doesn't want to trade him, nor should they. But disgruntled players with a track record of being disgruntled are going to bring trade speculation with them. Especially with an ownership group like that. You saw it with McDavid too. How many times on this site do people proclaim players won't go for anything less than X, Y and Z and are then shown to be way off. I agree, certain trades probably won't happen, but sometimes shit does happen.

It is a forum for discussing hockey. But if we want to shut down trade discussion about star players because they never have and never will be traded then feel free I guess. Someone says there's a 0.0% chance of a player being traded we might as well shut em all down.

Edit: I've also seen some decent proposals. Just because every fanbase on this site has people who think their teams players are worth more than everyone else's players doesn't mean all the offers are garbage. Yet I routinely see people spouting off about how legit players and prospects are garbage.
 

is the answer jesus

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Mar 10, 2008
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With speculation of Eichel being unhappy years after he was drafted, it's only natural people will discuss trade scenarios. What seems to get lost is that any star requesting a trade is going to hamper the return, and because the speculation is that Eichel is unhappy, the next logical thought would be that if he were to be moved its because a trade was requested. Almost everyone acknowledges Buffalo doesn't want to trade him, nor should they. But disgruntled players with a track record of being disgruntled are going to bring trade speculation with them. Especially with an ownership group like that. You saw it with McDavid too. How many times on this site do people proclaim players won't go for anything less than X, Y and Z and are then shown to be way off. I agree, certain trades probably won't happen, but sometimes shit does happen.

It is a forum for discussing hockey. But if we want to shut down trade discussion about star players because they never have and never will be traded then feel free I guess. Someone says there's a 0.0% chance of a player being traded we might as well shut em all down.
I never once said there shouldn't be a discussion about it. People are free to discuss whatever they'd like, just as Sabres fans are free to chime in and say we arent trading our franchise player for late 1sts, middling roster players, and magic bean prospects. I think as you said it's speculation on top of speculation. Eichel must want out because he's been frustrated with losing, the Sabres aren't good so naturally the only conclusion is he'll try to force his way out and Buffalo will be forced to take trash in return. You can clearly see there's a whole lot of potential outcomes that differ from that path and yet that's the only path that seems to be discussed. Buffalo could get better (like Edmonton) and the talk goes away. Buffalo could stay bad, Eichel could stay upset, honor his contract and stay in Buffalo. They could stay bad, he could ask for a trade and if the offers are complete garbage (like they are here) they say tough shit you're under contract. No one wants to discuss those possibilities though because they don't involve robbing a team of a star player for scraps. I also keep hearing about star players asking for trades and teams being forced to trade them for underwhelming returns and yet in all my years of following hockey I can't remember a player of Eichels ilk, in his prime, with years and years still remaining on his deal, forcing a team to trade him for pennies on the dollar. It certainly hasn't happened in the salary cap era and yet people are so certain they know what the return would be.
 
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GOilers88

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I never once said there shouldn't be a discussion about it. People are free to discuss whatever they'd like, just as Sabres fans are free to chime in and say we arent trading our franchise player for late 1sts, middling roster players, and magic bean prospects. I think as you said it's speculation on top of speculation. Eichel must want out because he's been frustrated with losing, the Sabres aren't good so naturally the only conclusion is he'll try to force his way out and Buffalo will be forced to take trash in return. You can clearly see there's a whole lot of potential outcomes that differ from that path and yet that's the only path that seems to be discussed. Buffalo could get better (like Edmonton) and the talk goes away. Buffalo could stay bad, Eichel could stay upset, honor his contract and stay in Buffalo. They could stay bad, he could ask for a trade and if the offers are complete garbage (like they are here) they say tough shit you're under contract. No one wants to discuss those possibilities though because they don't involve robbing a team of a star player for scraps. I also keep hearing about star players asking for trades and teams being forced to trade them for underwhelming returns and yet in all my years of following hockey I can't remember a player of Eichels ilk, in his prime with years and years still remaining on his deal, forcing a team to trade him for pennies on the dollar, it certainly hasn't happened in the salary cap era and yet people are so certain they know what the return would be.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but crazy shit happens all the time. Imagine if Holland hadn't worked out. McDavid saying screw this could have easily been a possibility going into next summer. Obviously nobody knows what the price or return would be, but it's obviously a very interesting topic of discussion when it concerns any star player which is why things like this get speculated on all the time. I especially don't like seeing mods go 'yeah buddy 0.0% chance anything happens nothing worth talking about here", when it's so blatantly obvious that talks like this involving any high profile name are inherently supremely interesting. The amount of discussion on them, whether you like it or agree with it all is really irrelevant.
 

Patagonia

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Jan 6, 2017
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Eichel went USNTDP to NCAA to NHL

Hughes went USNTDP to NHL

You can't just compare their rookie seasons and make a final conclusion on Hughes's development.

Hischier's points production hasn't gone up as much as his all around play has greatly improved. Kid is the future Devils captain and is going to be a Selke candidate for many years.

Ty Smith has been the best Dman in the WHL for the last two years. He will get his shot in the NHL whenever next season starts.

Trading Hughes, 7th overall and Smith or Hischier will set the franchise back years it'd almost be suicide.

Eichel has a stunning 71 point NCAA season which far exceeds the 21 NHL points. Hischier is a good, but not great player that has been far surpassed by Heiskanen, Makar and EP. Smith is not the best WHL DMan. Byram has finished ahead of him in practically every Analyst.

Eichel is a special player. Hughes, Hischier and Smith are good, but not close to being at the same level.
 

HogtownSabresfan

Registered User
Jan 13, 2010
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Buffalo wont do it because Hughes isnt proven enough. As a Devils fan I'm not doing this trade because Hughes might not be as good of a goal scorer as Eichel is one day but I'm pretty sure he has the potential to be the better point producer. \

Nice to know you're pretty sure.
 

PizzaAndPucks

New Jersey Angels diehard
Nov 29, 2018
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Nice to know you're pretty sure.
I'm sorry that you dont realize Hughes has potential to be an elite player in the NHL , he didnt go 1st overall for nothing. Dont act as if the Devils could get fleeced if the players and pick pan out. I can see why Buffalo turns this down but NJ isnt jumping at the heels for an move like this either.
 

LongWayDown37

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
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As I have said earlier, if Sabre fans are looking to get back another Eichel, they're going to be very disappointed.
Sabres fans are not saying that. They’re saying that we shouldn’t trade Eichel. And they’re right. Even in the unlikely event he demand a trade, they shouldn’t trade him.
 

HogtownSabresfan

Registered User
Jan 13, 2010
6,624
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I'm sorry that you dont realize Hughes has potential to be an elite player in the NHL , he didnt go 1st overall for nothing. Dont act as if the Devils could get fleeced if the players and pick pan out. I can see why Buffalo turns this down but NJ isnt jumping at the heels for an move like this either.
 

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