Mediocre finns in Nhl...

[FiLe]

Yeah! These all playing in Nhl,but they aren't at the same level as these swedes i wrote down. Theirs production isn't as good as the swedes. Their roles is not the same. If you don't see the difference,then you have to take off your blue/white glasses.

Err... how is the role of a Finnish 1st/2nd line forward or top pairing d-man different from that of a Swedish 1st/2nd line forward or top pairing d-man?

Also, out of the Swedish players, only Forsberg and Landeskog have clearly better production than their Finnish counterparts, but they have also been lucky to not be set back by injuries.

Also, most of the Swedish players listed are about two years older. They're closer to 23-24-year mark, whereas most Finns are still barely out of their teens.

So, here's a proposal... I take off my very lightly-tinted blue/white glasses, and in turn, you take your head out of your backside, put out the fire in your pants, wait for a year or two... and then come back to this topic, when we can actually compare these young Finns and Swedes head-to-head?

Because, and I'm telling you this for the third time, our kids are no inferior to the Swedish kids. There might be slightly less of them, but they're currently sitting in the same position than them... in the comparable point of their development curve. The reason they may seem better now is not because they're actually head and shoulders above our top prospects - the reason is that they're slightly ahead in the same curve because they've got a few years' worth of a head start compared to ours. If ours haven't caught up with them in those few years - then we can revisit this topic.

 

[Selannne]

Err... how is the role of a Finnish 1st/2nd line forward or top pairing d-man different from that of a Swedish 1st/2nd line forward or top pairing d-man?

Also, out of the Swedish players, only Forsberg and Landeskog have clearly better production than their Finnish counterparts, but they have also been lucky to not be set back by injuries.

Also, most of the Swedish players listed are about two years older. They're closer to 23-24-year mark, whereas most Finns are still barely out of their teens.

So, here's a proposal... I take off my very lightly-tinted blue/white glasses, and in turn, you take your head out of your backside, put out the fire in your pants, wait for a year or two... and then come back to this topic, when we can actually compare these young Finns and Swedes head-to-head?

Because, and I'm telling you this for the third time, our kids are no inferior to the Swedish kids. There might be slightly less of them, but they're currently sitting in the same position than them... in the comparable point of their development curve. The reason they may seem better now is not because they're actually head and shoulders above our top prospects - the reason is that they're slightly ahead in the same curve because they've got a few years' worth of a head start compared to ours. If ours haven't caught up with them in those few years - then we can revisit this topic.

Or,we can actually see what these swedish players did two years ago...
First E Karlsson, ( same type of player as Vatanen) Erik is now captain for his team and plays~25-30 min/game. As a 22 year old in his third season in Nhl he won the Norris tropfy after an outstanding season with 78p in 81g. He has 285p in 377 games there. The earlier season when he was 21, he had 45p in 75g. First season 26p in 60 games. (This is what i call huge steps forward)

Sami Vatanen as a 21 year old in his first season 2p in 8 games. Next season 21p in 48 games. And this year his best season so far. 34 p in 57 games. Total of 57p in 113 games thus far in Nhl. Sami is just one year younger than Erik. (I hope you see the difference)

I think we can compare Landeskog to Barkov,both came in the league at an young age,both drafted second overall in their drafts.
Gabes first season in Nhl 52p in 82 games second season (lockout) 17p in 36 games. Third season 65p in 81 games. And this year he has 38p.in 61 games. Total of 172p in 260 games. He was also named the youngest captain in Nhl history as a 19 year old. Also won the Calder tropfy.

Alexander Barkov, the finnish big hope. First season in Nhl 24p in 54 games. This year,his second season he has 21p in 50 games,it gives a total of 45p. In 104 games.

As you see,or do you? Quite big difference here too between these...

I don't know who we can compare Granlund to,but he is in his third season in the league now and has 27p in 49 games,playing first line minutes with stars like Parise,Pominville/Vanek.
He has a total of 76p in 139 games.

Filip Forsberg..Same here,I don't know who we can take here but anyway,his first season 1p in 5 games. Second season 5 p. In 13 games. This season,his third 52p. In 62 games. A total of 58 p in 80 games as a 20 year old. He's probably gonna win the Calder tropfy. (Second Calder to Sweden in 4 years?)

I don't take those other d men this time,but anyway both,OEL and Hedman are many times ranked in the top 15 in the league as 23 year old and 24 year old. A time ago I read an article about top 50 skaters in Nhl,there wasn't a single finn...

 

[Selannne]

Err... how is the role of a Finnish 1st/2nd line forward or top pairing d-man different from that of a Swedish 1st/2nd line forward or top pairing d-man?

Also, out of the Swedish players, only Forsberg and Landeskog have clearly better production than their Finnish counterparts, but they have also been lucky to not be set back by injuries.

Also, most of the Swedish players listed are about two years older. They're closer to 23-24-year mark, whereas most Finns are still barely out of their teens.

So, here's a proposal... I take off my very lightly-tinted blue/white glasses, and in turn, you take your head out of your backside, put out the fire in your pants, wait for a year or two... and then come back to this topic, when we can actually compare these young Finns and Swedes head-to-head?

Because, and I'm telling you this for the third time, our kids are no inferior to the Swedish kids. There might be slightly less of them, but they're currently sitting in the same position than them... in the comparable point of their development curve. The reason they may seem better now is not because they're actually head and shoulders above our top prospects - the reason is that they're slightly ahead in the same curve because they've got a few years' worth of a head start compared to ours. If ours haven't caught up with them in those few years - then we can revisit this topic.

Or,we can actually see what these swedish players did two years ago...
First E Karlsson, ( same type of player as Vatanen) Erik is now captain for his team and plays~25-30 min/game. As a 22 year old in his third season in Nhl he won the Norris tropfy after an outstanding season with 78p in 81g. He has 285p in 377 games there. The earlier season when he was 21, he had 45p in 75g. First season 26p in 60 games. (This is what i call huge steps forward)

Sami Vatanen as a 21 year old in his first season 2p in 8 games. Next season 21p in 48 games. And this year his best season so far. 34 p in 57 games. Total of 57p in 113 games thus far in Nhl. Sami is just one year younger than Erik. (I hope you see the difference)

I think we can compare Landeskog to Barkov,both came in the league at an young age,both drafted second overall in their drafts.
Gabes first season in Nhl 52p in 82 games second season (lockout) 17p in 36 games. Third season 65p in 81 games. And this year he has 38p.in 61 games. Total of 172p in 260 games. He was also named the youngest captain in Nhl history as a 19 year old. Also won the Calder tropfy.

Alexander Barkov, the finnish big hope. First season in Nhl 24p in 54 games. This year,his second season he has 21p in 50 games,it gives a total of 45p. In 104 games.

As you see,or do you? Quite big difference here too between these...

I don't know who we can compare Granlund to,but he is in his third season in the league now and has 27p in 49 games,playing first line minutes with stars like Parise,Pominville/Vanek.
He has a total of 76p in 139 games.

Filip Forsberg..Same here,I don't know who we can take here but anyway,his first season 1p in 5 games. Second season 5 p. In 13 games. This season,his third 52p. In 62 games. A total of 58 p in 80 games as a 20 year old. He's probably gonna win the Calder tropfy. (Second Calder to Sweden in 4 years?)

I don't take those other d men this time,but anyway both,OEL and Hedman are many times ranked in the top 15 in the league as 23 year old and 24 year old. A time ago I read an article about top 50 skaters in Nhl,there wasn't a single finn...

Just checked that 40 skaters from Sweden born in 90's has played atleast one game this season,that number for the finns is 15,so it's getting better for us. But the swedes have wayyy more depth

 

[FiLe]

Or,we can actually see what these swedish players did two years ago...
First E Karlsson, ( same type of player as Vatanen) Erik is now captain for his team and plays~25-30 min/game. As a 22 year old in his third season in Nhl he won the Norris tropfy after an outstanding season with 78p in 81g. He has 285p in 377 games there. The earlier season when he was 21, he had 45p in 75g. First season 26p in 60 games. (This is what i call huge steps forward)

Sami Vatanen as a 21 year old in his first season 2p in 8 games. Next season 21p in 48 games. And this year his best season so far. 34 p in 57 games. Total of 57p in 113 games thus far in Nhl. Sami is just one year younger than Erik. (I hope you see the difference)

Erik Karlsson's first full NHL season: 26 points in 60 games.

Sami Vatanen's first full NHL season: 34 points in 57 games.

The difference is... where? Yes, Vatanen is older at this point, but different organizations mean different circumstances.

I think we can compare Landeskog to Barkov,both came in the league at an young age,both drafted second overall in their drafts.
Gabes first season in Nhl 52p in 82 games second season (lockout) 17p in 36 games. Third season 65p in 81 games. And this year he has 38p.in 61 games. Total of 172p in 260 games. He was also named the youngest captain in Nhl history as a 19 year old. Also won the Calder tropfy.

Alexander Barkov, the finnish big hope. First season in Nhl 24p in 54 games. This year,his second season he has 21p in 50 games,it gives a total of 45p. In 104 games.

As you see,or do you? Quite big difference here too between these...

Aleksander Barkov had his first full NHL season as a very raw player, a year younger than Landeskog and two years younger than Filip Forsberg. By now, he's already a two-season NHL veteran and an olympian.

Barkov is never going to win the Calder trophy, but he can still have a 50-point season at the age of 20, just like Forsberg, just like Landeskog. All he has to do is to reach that mark next season. And while I don't think he's the type, it's still also possible for him to be an NHL captain before he turns 21, just like Gabriel Landeskog. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

In other words, you have not the slightest idea what you're saying when you're saying that Barkov doesn't look like anything special. It would have been interesting to see where he is right now if he hadn't had to skip the entire second half of last season and parts of this season due to injuries.

I'm actually being a bit unfair here, since I compared Vatanen and Karlsson's first full seasons head-to-head but flipped the table and compared ages between Barkov and the two Swedish phenoms. But it serves to point that there is more than one way to skin the cat, and given how all these players we're comparing have very big roles in their club teams, only at the end of their respective careers can we say who's been more successful.

Just checked that 40 skaters from Sweden born in 90's has played atleast one game this season,that number for the finns is 15,so it's getting better for us. But the swedes have wayyy more depth

That they do. But then again, they didn't send an entire decade's worth of hockey juniors into a black hole and botch their development, like we did. Which again, is something we have already stopped doing, but it'll still be a few years 'til we see full effects of the fix.

Which brings me back to my original point, as in making this complaint right now, at this very point in history is a fool's errand.

 

[Selannne]

Erik Karlsson's first full NHL season: 26 points in 60 games.

Sami Vatanen's first full NHL season: 34 points in 57 games.

The difference is... where? Yes, Vatanen is older at this point, but different organizations mean different circumstances.

Aleksander Barkov had his first full NHL season as a very raw player, a year younger than Landeskog and two years younger than Filip Forsberg. By now, he's already a two-season NHL veteran and an olympian.

Barkov is never going to win the Calder trophy, but he can still have a 50-point season at the age of 20, just like Forsberg, just like Landeskog. All he has to do is to reach that mark next season. And while I don't think he's the type, it's still also possible for him to be an NHL captain before he turns 21, just like Gabriel Landeskog. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

In other words, you have not the slightest idea what you're saying when you're saying that Barkov doesn't look like anything special. It would have been interesting to see where he is right now if he hadn't had to skip the entire second half of last season and parts of this season due to injuries.

I'm actually being a bit unfair here, since I compared Vatanen and Karlsson's first full seasons head-to-head but flipped the table and compared ages between Barkov and the two Swedish phenoms. But it serves to point that there is more than one way to skin the cat, and given how all these players we're comparing have very big roles in their club teams, only at the end of their respective careers can we say who's been more successful.

That they do. But then again, they didn't send an entire decade's worth of hockey juniors into a black hole and botch their development, like we did. Which again, is something we have already stopped doing, but it'll still be a few years 'til we see full effects of the fix.

Which brings me back to my original point, as in making this complaint right now, at this very point in history is a fool's errand.

And you talking about the age difference ?? First of all, Vatanen is 4!! Years older now than Karlsson was in his first "full" season. Vatanen had nothing to do in Nhl when he was 19...When Karlsson was 23 as Vatanen is today he had already had two 70+p seasons. You still don't see the difference between these two??
Second thing,Landeskog was 19 when he had 52 points in 82 games in his rookie season. Has Barkov that now in his SECOND year....no. Gabe was 19 and 286 days when he got the C on his chest,before his second season. And we all know that not gonna happen for Barkov either.
Third thing,the season isn't over,Forsberg can very well end up with 60+ points in his first full season as a 20 year old,most points in his team which is a top team in the league. Have any other finn than Selanne and Kurri done that?? I don't know,but it's impressive nowadays with these sick goaltenders...

 

[Seattle Slewfoot]

My guess is the most if not all of the Finnish speak players speak Swedish, while exactly none of the Swedish players speak much Finnish. Let them learn that doozy of a Finno-Ugirc language if they think they're so great.

 

[FiLe]

And you talking about the age difference ?? First of all, Vatanen is 4!! Years older now than Karlsson was in his first "full" season. Vatanen had nothing to do in Nhl when he was 19...When Karlsson was 23 as Vatanen is today he had already had two 70+p seasons. You still don't see the difference between these two??

Mm-hmm. Way to go missing the point.

Second thing,Landeskog was 19 when he had 52 points in 82 games in his rookie season. Has Barkov that now in his SECOND year....no. Gabe was 19 and 286 days when he got the C on his chest,before his second season. And we all know that not gonna happen for Barkov either.
Third thing,the season isn't over,Forsberg can very well end up with 60+ points in his first full season as a 20 year old,most points in his team which is a top team in the league. Have any other finn than Selanne and Kurri done that?? I don't know,but it's impressive nowadays with these sick goaltenders...

Ohhhh... now I get it. You mean a player who isn't showing superstar tendencies when he's roughly 20 years old is completely "mediocre"? If so... I apologize. My bad.

 

[Selannne]

My guess is the most if not all of the Finnish speak players speak Swedish, while exactly none of the Swedish players speak much Finnish. Let them learn that doozy of a Finno-Ugirc language if they think they're so great.

Hahah!

 

[Selannne]

Mm-hmm. Way to go missing the point.

Ohhhh... now I get it. You mean a player who isn't showing superstar tendencies when he's roughly 20 years old is completely "mediocre"? If so... I apologize. My bad.

Well,atleast some kind of development would be nice, it feels like these finns curves is more like this_____________ now..

 

[Seattle Slewfoot]

Hahah!

It's a fascinating language, and you certainly get some interesting reactions from Finnish players over here in the US when you address them in their native tongue. I don't speak much, but a little bit goes a long way.

 

[FiLe]

Well,atleast some kind of development would be nice, it feels like these finns curves is more like this_____________ now..

Really? How many young Finns from the 90s or 2000s you recall who are even in such prominent roles as our current ones are now? There have never been this many.

Also, do you have any idea how much work it takes to develop even ten first-round picks in the frame of five years - especially from a population of five million?

Not to mention that you can't breed generational talent. It is born - and all the system can do is provide the necessary grounds to cultivate it. And the raw numbers of those "mediocre" first-round picks prove that the system is in place and doing its darnest to make sure that fertile soil is there. Now, all there is to do is to wait for the right bud to land in it. From a base as small as ours, it would actually not be statistically unusual at all for us to wait even for 20 years or so for another Selänne. All we can do is hope that it won't take that long.

In the meanwhile, I suggest some positive thinking. Be thankful of those players we do have rather than whine about their "mediocrity", because their existence is a small miracle in itself.

This entire thread is so out of "The Big Book of Finnish Hockey Clichés", right down to execution.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Well,atleast some kind of development would be nice, it feels like these finns curves is more like this_____________ now..

Olli Määttä jumped straight from the CHL to NHL, and played extremely well on the Penguins first pairing. Granlund showed great progress from his first season on his second year. The other Granlund has developed well too. Pulkkinen is showing serious top-6 potential. And Barkov has brought his game to another level after suffering through half a season of the infamous second-year-slump. Swedes have more "superstars", but I don't see how that automatically makes Finns "mediocre". 1st liners are not mediocre, neither are 2nd liners.

 

[Selannne]

Really? How many young Finns from the 90s or 2000s you recall who are even in such prominent roles as our current ones are now? There have never been this many.

Also, do you have any idea how much work it takes to develop even ten first-round picks in the frame of five years - especially from a population of five million?

Not to mention that you can't breed generational talent. It is born - and all the system can do is provide the necessary grounds to cultivate it. And the raw numbers of those "mediocre" first-round picks prove that the system is in place and doing its darnest to make sure that fertile soil is there. Now, all there is to do is to wait for the right bud to land in it. From a base as small as ours, it would actually not be statistically unusual at all for us to wait even for 20 years or so for another Selänne. All we can do is hope that it won't take that long.

In the meanwhile, I suggest some positive thinking. Be thankful of those players we do have rather than whine about their "mediocrity", because their existence is a small miracle in itself.

This entire thread is so out of "The Big Book of Finnish Hockey Clichés", right down to execution.

Isn't it better to look at the registered players?? In Finland it is ~52.000. And in Sweden ~68.000. When you look at those numbers and then you look at how many good players finland and sweden have/had in Nhl over the years,then you can say that Sweden has done something way more better over all the years. When Selanne and Koivu popped up,Those years came Lidström,Forsberg,Alfredsson,Sundin,Näslund,Sundström,Jönsson...

 

[FiLe]

Isn't it better to look at the registered players?? In Finland it is ~52.000. And in Sweden ~68.000.

No. Think a little, again. If the only way to have more hockey players was for hockey players themselves to have children, then the number of registered players would be relevant.

But since the son of a plumber and a librarian, for example, can develop into an elite player, the entire country's population is exactly the right reference frame.

These kids start their journey into superstars far before they're registered. Actually, you could make an argument that since someone like Anze Kopitar can develop into an elite player, true stars are made more like regardless of the system in place. Similarly, back when Teemu took his first tentative strides on skates, there hardly was a system in Finland.

Besides, in Finland, everyone who plays hockey somewhat regularly, even the lowest tier or any age group from G-junior to grandpas' league is a "registered player". Women who play count too. Heck, any one of us can be one if we just bother to tie our skates and train hard enough to be accepted to a team playing in the beer leagues. Therefore, that number is good for only one thing - telling that people in Finland like hockey. It is completely irrelevant in relation to people who actually have the necessary talent for it to play on top level.

 

[vsk92]

Personally I don't care how players do in the nhl, it comes down to national tournaments for me.

Sure it's nice seeing players being succesful over the pond.

 

[Jussi]

Isn't it better to look at the registered players?? In Finland it is ~52.000. And in Sweden ~68.000. When you look at those numbers and then you look at how many good players finland and sweden have/had in Nhl over the years,then you can say that Sweden has done something way more better over all the years. When Selanne and Koivu popped up,Those years came Lidström,Forsberg,Alfredsson,Sundin,Näslund,Sundström,Jönsson...

Swedes have actually more, they don't include recreational players in their numbers like we do.

 

[Selannne]

Olli Määttä jumped straight from the CHL to NHL, and played extremely well on the Penguins first pairing. Granlund showed great progress from his first season on his second year. The other Granlund has developed well too. Pulkkinen is showing serious top-6 potential. And Barkov has brought his game to another level after suffering through half a season of the infamous second-year-slump. Swedes have more "superstars", but I don't see how that automatically makes Finns "mediocre". 1st liners are not mediocre, neither are 2nd liners.

Yep! Määttä has always impressed me,pretty crazy to jump straight from Chl to Nhl I hope he can come back strong next season after all shoulder problems and cancer...
And Granlund yes he took the step after first season,but this season he has been pretty much the same as last season. He need to take the next step soon,or then it stall.
A 40point player in Nhl is a quite mediocre one. There are hundreds of them there.

 

[Selannne]

Personally I don't care how players do in the nhl, it comes down to national tournaments for me.

Sure it's nice seeing players being succesful over the pond.

I do! It's almost the same feeling when the finns has been succesfull in Nhl as in nationals and best of all the Nhl seasons are soo long compared to a Olympic tournament

 

[Ihmeilja]

At the moment Sweden is probably the best country in developing young ice hockey players. Finnish youth developing system is not all bad, if it is not as good as the system in Sweden. If you boys think the developing system needs to be at same level with Sweden to be good, you can say, that all but Canada and Sweden suck with their developing system at the moment.

So why do they just stall?? I think this is pretty much an mentality question actually...Why is koskenkorva and party importanter for them than hard/good training even in the summer??

Every case probably has different reasons... Some of them are actually lacking in professionalism... mentally not ready to live like a professional athlete. Some of them are mentally mature and very much professionals but still have problems with their development.

 

[kelsier]

Maybe the problem is they should rather live like rock stars instead of trying to act like they can be professional atheletes? I mean with this new generation they should be stars by birth right.

Seriously though "Selanne" you haven't really been paying attension much lately with these kids. Wait a year or two more.

 

[Selannne]

At the moment Sweden is probably the best country in developing young ice hockey players. Finnish youth developing system is not all bad, if it is not as good as the system in Sweden. If you boys think the developing system needs to be at same level with Sweden to be good, you can say, that all but Canada and Sweden suck with their developing system at the moment.



Every case probably has different reasons... Some of them are actually lacking in professionalism... mentally not ready to live like a professional athlete. Some of them are mentally mature and very much professionals but still have problems with their development.

Yes, I think it can be a bit more professional thinking and stuff like that in Sweden. I don't live in Sweden so I can't be 100% sure but I think that I have never seen a Swedish hockeyplayer or other sportsman drunk,for example. In Finland this happens quite often I think. And that's not really good if you want to be good at something else than drink beer. Jori Lehterä said in an interwue that he haven't drinking alcohol the last years,and he has trained much more better,eating better and that stuff...and woila,now he is in Nhl,his dream came true.

 

[FiLe]

A 40point player in Nhl is a quite mediocre one. There are hundreds of them there.

Last season, an 886 players dressed for a game in the National Hockey League. 723 dressed for 10 games or more.

Now... 158 of them hit 40 points or more. So a player who gets even there solidly sits in the best quarter of players in the best league in the world. That's still not "mediocre" when you take the proper perspective, something which most people posting in this thread have been trying to hammer into your head.

20 points is closer to "mediocre" since around 350 players got there. The stats are freely available for all to read. Why don't you take a gander at those before you come here, spouting nonsense.

---

Also, there is no single reason - like drinking beer, or eating better, or training harder - to turning a subpar athlete into an elite one. There is a devil in the details, but there are ton of those details and all need to be followed to a tee. These guys lead a very rigorous lifestyle, something a few of us common men on the street urging them to "be better" could never even think about. These guys have pretty much sacrificed all other aspects of their lives to playing the game. And they're doing it voluntarily, since only a totalitarian system can force a man to live like that. So once again, you can't just point at the system and will it to create the dream player. I know I couldn't follow the program required to chase such a dream - I'll definitely have to "live a little" every once in a while to maintain a healthy psyche (heh, well, what I consider "healthy" at least, dunno what the guys around here think).

If one wants as complete answer as possible to the original topic - the reason for these young Finns' "mediocrity" lies in the fact that they come from a very small country that regardless grants them a very great amount of personal freedoms on how to lead their lives.

Any player breaking into the NHL full time has given up a lot of those life's luxuries most of us take for granted. Heck, even being a successful Liiga player means passing on most of them. It is an insult to all of them for someone to so off-handedly and uninformedly call 'em "mediocre". Even those who are such by the league's standards, are anything but when compared to the rest of us.

 

[Selannne]

Last season, an 886 players dressed for a game in the National Hockey League. 723 dressed for 10 games or more.

Now... 158 of them hit 40 points or more. So a player who gets even there solidly sits in the best quarter of players in the best league in the world. That's still not "mediocre" when you take the proper perspective, something which most people posting in this thread have been trying to hammer into your head.

20 points is closer to "mediocre" since around 350 players got there. The stats are freely available for all to read. Why don't you take a gander at those before you come here, spouting nonsense.

---

Also, there is no single reason - like drinking beer, or eating better, or training harder - to turning a subpar athlete into an elite one. There is a devil in the details, but there are ton of those details and all need to be followed to a tee. These guys lead a very rigorous lifestyle, something a few of us common men on the street urging them to "be better" could never even think about. These guys have pretty much sacrificed all other aspects of their lives to playing the game. And they're doing it voluntarily, since only a totalitarian system can force a man to live like that. So once again, you can't just point at the system and will it to create the dream player. I know I couldn't follow the program required to chase such a dream - I'll definitely have to "live a little" every once in a while to maintain a healthy psyche (heh, well, what I consider "healthy" at least, dunno what the guys around here think).

If one wants as complete answer as possible to the original topic - the reason for these young Finns' "mediocrity" lies in the fact that they come from a very small country that regardless grants them a very great amount of personal freedoms on how to lead their lives.

Any player breaking into the NHL full time has given up a lot of those life's luxuries most of us take for granted. Heck, even being a successful Liiga player means passing on most of them. It is an insult to all of them for someone to so off-handedly and uninformedly call 'em "mediocre". Even those who are such by the league's standards, are anything but when compared to the rest of us.

Heh,well,no I didn't check those numbers,exactly that you didn't check those numbers on Karlsson,and Landeskog,okey?
But,you gotta take a little look at icetimes and stuff like that too, I mean Granlund has first lines minutes almost every game. if you take a look at just Centers in this league for example,today he is on place 70 in point totals. it's 30 first line centers in the league,60 if you count the second lines too, you see?? 69! Centers in the league have more points than him,today...What do you want to call an 40 point player that playing center first lines minutes with stars,and with PP time?? Superstar?? What the hell do you call Crosby then??
And Barkov was on place 111 in Centers category last season,now on 96.

And,of course I know there is no single reason for why an player stalling in his development. But that's sure,do you wanna be in the elite,then the alcohol consumption have to be almost zero.
Many people talking here and there much about talent, "oh,that player is so talented!" And, many experts in mentally training today says that,it doesn't really exist something like that word "talent". The results comes from how well you train and how much you train,and lives,and sleep,and eating,from you are a little kid until your carreer is over. Well,I don't know who has right

 

[Mahonkinen]

Big ship takes a lot of time to turn. Revisit this thread in 5 years and see it for yourself.

 

[FiLe]

Heh,well,no I didn't check those numbers,exactly that you didn't check those numbers on Karlsson,and Landeskog,okey?

I didn't make a single erroneous statement concerning said players, unlike certain other person who seems to be talking out of his backside post in, post out.

But,you gotta take a little look at icetimes and stuff like that too, I mean Granlund has first lines minutes almost every game. if you take a look at just Centers in this league for example,today he is on place 70 in point totals. it's 30 first line centers in the league,60 if you count the second lines too, you see?? 69! Centers in the league have more points than him,today...What do you want to call an 40 point player that playing center first lines minutes with stars,and with PP time?? Superstar?? What the hell do you call Crosby then??
And Barkov was on place 111 in Centers category last season,now on 96.

Now now. You can save the silly hyperboles. Nobody's called Granlund a superstar. He is, however, well on pace to hitting 40 points this season as well, which is enough to signify that he is one of the better players in the league.

I can't help noticing that your only argument for calling them "mediocre" is their point production. That is a very important and visible part of hockey, but there is so much more to the game that can make you a good player. Every grownup enthusiast of the game knows that. Granlund's current +/- is at +17, which ranks him as 25th in the entire league. That is a very good number, and tells us one of two things. Either Granlund does plenty of little things right to be constantly on the ice when his team scores - or he's one of the luckiest players in the NHL who just happens to hang around when the red light is lit. I take it you can deduce yourself which option is more likely.

As far as Barkov goes, I'm calling forth common sense. Let's keep in mind that he's still 19 years old. None of his stats may display the fact, but in order to be a full-time top-six player in the National Hockey League, you can't be merely "mediocre" at anything. Again I find myself reminding you, that ultimately the worth of a player will be determined at the end of his career, not at the beginning of it. If he hits 50 to 80 points over his next ten seasons in the league, nobody will call him out on being a minor disappointment during his rookie and sophomore seasons.

Again, I recommend you cool your heels and simply wait for a bit. Sit tight a season or two, and see what happens when these players enter their prime. Could be their production picks up, could be it doesn't. But there is no reason to pan them now when they can still be excused. You aren't gonna get out of the hole you've dug by digging deeper.

And,of course I know there is no single reason for why an player stalling in his development. But that's sure,do you wanna be in the elite,then the alcohol consumption have to be almost zero.
Many people talking here and there much about talent, "oh,that player is so talented!" And, many experts in mentally training today says that,it doesn't really exist something like that word "talent". The results comes from how well you train and how much you train,and lives,and sleep,and eating,from you are a little kid until your carreer is over. Well,I don't know who has right

"Talent" is that aspect of ones progress in a given thing no one else can help with. It's the bit we gain by cultivating it on our own time - because we find it fun. And it does not apply only to hockey, but everything we do. But if we are to stay in the hockey landscape, sadly there is no way to force anyone to cultivate anything on their spare time, since we don't live in a totalitarian system. If there are individuals who like to dedicate the time given to them to live like a pro athlete, good for them, and good for us who enjoy watching the fruits of said toils. But no amount of mentail training can condition anyone to do it if they don't find it fun.

And, in a country of five million, there will always be a woefully small amount of people who do find it fun. So rather than complain about it, we should still be thankful that so many decide to dedicate their time to the game of hockey even in the amounts they do.

One thing is plain as day however. They don't owe it to you or anyone else in the Republic of Finland. So not single obnoxious creature on this entire Earth has the right to call 'em "mediocre". I hope this is now clear.