TSN: McKenzie :If Habs take a center it's no longer an off the board pick

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Habs

We should have drafted Michkov
Feb 28, 2002
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I know what it means. The point is Zadina is not the BPA, he is one of them. But he is the most popular player.

I'm sure you get involved in hockey pools. Do you go look at last year standings and draft based on who is left on the scoring list when it gets to you or do you target young assets where you think they will break out? Do you target a guy like Weber or Burns who might be popular pick or do you take a guy like Jones who has a lot of hype and is younger? How do you measure the gap on age and future potential?

I trade patches for a 1st, take a C and a D this year. I don't see much separating 3-7 to be honest, but its hard to pass up on the young dmen out there this year. I would not burn a pick on Zadina.
 
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JuicyHam

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f*** I hate how it was all so simple when we initially got third and most of us just expected Zadina. Now it all seems so complicated and we have no idea who we actually want. It's more "expect the unexpected" bull from MB and co.

Whoever we pick I hope they become a great player but it's just a mess of rumours and speculation and it's killing me. Next week can't come quick enough.
 

WeThreeKings

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**** I hate how it was all so simple when we initially got third and most of us just expected Zadina. Now it all seems so complicated and we have no idea who we actually want. It's more "expect the unexpected" bull from MB and co.

Whoever we pick I hope they become a great player but it's just a mess of rumours and speculation and it's killing me. Next week can't come quick enough.

I would say be ready for Kotkaniemi or Dobson.
 
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Laurentide

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Serious question, but do you have any real arguments against JK othet than lists like Central Scouting ?

You realize players rising, even in a major way, happens quite often, right ?

Scheifele and Huberdeau are two really easy ones to cite.

JK has been rising since at least December. But, hes been in discussion in the first round for a long time.
It's June 15th. How can your stock as a player be on the rise when your season has been over for several weeks already?
 
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Andrei79

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I would say be ready for Kotkaniemi or Dobson.

Thats what I think, too. I'm fine with both.

If we're truly interested in discussing a winger, we shouldn't stop at Tkachuk and Zadina in any case. Kravtsov and Wahlstrom should be in discussion, too. Theyre just as talented. The top 10 has flaws, but we can't deny how much upside there is until pick 13.

Hence... Why getting 3rd wasnt that awesome of a jump and why getting a top 10 pick for Pacioretty should be a priority.
 
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Laurentide

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people need to really look at his drafting and stop just regurgitating the same old criticisms. All his 1st round picks look like players except for McCarron. Still too early to tell but 5 out of 6 when 4 of them are late first rounders is a pretty good batting average.
Being a "player" and being a "star player" are two different things. I'm sure that whoever they pick at #3 will be, at the very least, a serviceable NHL caliber player. But will they get an impact player? Will they get a future all-star player? Because a 3rd overall pick should become something more than just another roster player. I want a star who can score, not another Rick Green, Chad Kilger or Roman Hamrlik.
 

Andrei79

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It's June 15th. How can your stock as a player be on the rise when your season has been over for several weeks already?

WTK's answered the question. But, its also the nature of things in the media -theres a delay between the information relayed and the one that's actually prevalent at the moment od publication. Bob speaks to scouts throughout months from his mid-season to pre-lottery rankings. Tournaments happen between, the combine does as well, scouting teams meet and review notes/videos so rankings change, even significantly.


If they didn't, Bob would just stop at the pre-lottery rankings each year.
 
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WeThreeKings

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Being a "player" and being a "star player" are two different things. I'm sure that whoever they pick at #3 will be, at the very least, a serviceable NHL caliber player. But will they get an impact player? Will they get a future all-star player? Because a 3rd overall pick should become something more than just another roster player. I want a star who can score, not another Rick Green, Chad Kilger or Roman Hamrlik.

Well scouts talking to Bob McKenzie indicate that Kotkaniemi was playing like Barkov. Is Barkov a star?

Button said he impacts the game like an Anze Kopitar. Is that a star?

If we take Kotkaniemi we would be drafting the best C prospect since Galchenyuk for the team and without any worry that he ends up on the wing.
 

habsgirl5000

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**** I hate how it was all so simple when we initially got third and most of us just expected Zadina.

not sure why anybody would ever think that.....the only clear picks from 1-10 in this draft are #1 and #2 there is a big drop off after that and not really much seperation from 3-10

dahlin is clearly the best D....svetch is clearly the best winger.....after that its really a crap shoot

it would have been simple if we were #2
 
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Laurentide

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U-18s hockey championship
Memorial Cup
Draft combine.

Pretty easy.
The Finnish "Liiga" schedule ended on March 10th. Kotkaniemi played 7 post-season games. He hasn't played in the U18 since 2017 and of course the Mem Cup is not applicable to him. His combine stats don't exactly jump off the page either. So again I ask, how does the stock of a guy who hasn't put on a pair of skates since March go up between then and now?
 

Andrei79

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The Finnish "Liiga" schedule ended on March 10th. Kotkaniemi played 7 post-season games. He hasn't played in the U18 since 2017 and of course the Mem Cup is not applicable to him. His combine stats don't exactly jump off the page either. So again I ask, how does the stock of a guy who hasn't put on a pair of skates since March go up between then and now?

Well, for one, he played as the no.1 center for Finland, the gold winning team, at the 2018 U18 (his second U18 tournament of 2018).

He had skates on, too.
 

Laurentide

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Well scouts talking to Bob McKenzie indicate that Kotkaniemi was playing like Barkov. Is Barkov a star?

Button said he impacts the game like an Anze Kopitar. Is that a star?

If we take Kotkaniemi we would be drafting the best C prospect since Galchenyuk for the team and without any worry that he ends up on the wing.
With the Habs one must always worry about that possibility.
 
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Adam Michaels

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The Finnish "Liiga" schedule ended on March 10th. Kotkaniemi played 7 post-season games. He hasn't played in the U18 since 2017 and of course the Mem Cup is not applicable to him. His combine stats don't exactly jump off the page either. So again I ask, how does the stock of a guy who hasn't put on a pair of skates since March go up between then and now?

Kotkaniemi played at the U18 this year, too, where he helped Finland win the gold medal. He had 9 points in 7 games. And he had 2 points in the Final, assisting on the GWG on a beautiful 2-on-1 shorthanded.

Also, between most mid-season rankings and final rankings, he also played in the 5 Nations Tournament, where he had 4 points in 4 games, tied for 6th in the tournament. He had a good showing there, too.
 
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Kraken Jokes

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Seems like most of the people who are against the idea of the Habs picking Kotkaniemi don't really follow the draft or upcoming prospects that much. Someone told them a couple months ago that Zadina was the 3rd best player in the draft and now they can't conceive the idea of anything being different.
 

First Line

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If you're drafting 3rd overall and your most pressing need is a center but the best center in the draft is ranked no better than 7th you do not draft the center. Either you draft the BPA at 3rd or you trade down.

.

I admit I'm too lazy to do a transcipt of the whole segment but from what I read on this thread most people are too lazy to even listen to a podcast, so don't judge me , lol.
But Bob clearly states that after seeing the latest rankings from scouts Kotkaniemi could be (and is by some ) considered BPA at 3.
No one knows wether Habs are part of his scouts surveyed of if they have a list similar to the ones he received but that's his educated guess.
 
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theghost1

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Well scouts talking to Bob McKenzie indicate that Kotkaniemi was playing like Barkov. Is Barkov a star?

Button said he impacts the game like an Anze Kopitar. Is that a star?

If we take Kotkaniemi we would be drafting the best C prospect since Galchenyuk for the team and without any worry that he ends up on the wing.
When Button was GM in Calgary his drafting record was off the charts bad......now in Dallas they did a much better job drafting but Gainey was the GM and had the final say.
 

NekkiChiconey

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If you're drafting 3rd overall and your most pressing need is a center but the best center in the draft is ranked no better than 7th you do not draft the center. Either you draft the BPA at 3rd or you trade down.

Since very few drafted players are ready to contribute immediately there's little point in drafting for immediate need. By the time the guy you draft today is ready to take his place on the everyday roster, the need you had when you took him could be already filled.

You address short-term needs in later rounds or deeper in the first round. But if you're picking 3rd you take the best player regardless of position every single time. Good players are good players. They have value, whether on your team or someone else's via trade. You don't waste a 3rd overall pick on a lesser player simply because he plays a certain position.

You realize that this does not always make sense?
First, in the Habs' particular case, between now and the day Kotkaniemi is NHL-ready, there is no way that MB will have found 2 young and promising top-6 centers: He has not been able to find ONE in 6 years. The only way to get a potential 1C is to draft one, and Kotkaniemi is possibly ranked as a potential 1C in many teams' mind.

Second, how could you fill immediate needs in the later rounds? These players are even further away from playing in the NHL. It is not a bad idea but I don't think it's essential to draft for need after the first round.

This draft is particular. Anyone could make a case for at least 6 players that could possibly be picked 3rd overall. If Timmins believes that Kotkaniemi can be that number one center, then by all means he should run to the stage and pick him.
How many young bonafide centers are available on the trade market?
 
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CDN24

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Well scouts talking to Bob McKenzie indicate that Kotkaniemi was playing like Barkov. Is Barkov a star?

Button said he impacts the game like an Anze Kopitar. Is that a star?

If we take Kotkaniemi we would be drafting the best C prospect since Galchenyuk for the team and without any worry that he ends up on the wing.


What if Kotaniemi is this years Kopitar. In 2005 Crosby like Dahlen was the best player by a mile. The consensus best players available after him on any pre draft list were some combination Bobby Ryan, Benoit Poulliot Jack Johnson and Gilbert Brule. In hindsight the slighlty undervalued European centre (Kopitar) who went 11th overall was the best player available at no 2, 3,4, Zadina's draft year numbers look a lot like Bobby Ryans.
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

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Being a "player" and being a "star player" are two different things. I'm sure that whoever they pick at #3 will be, at the very least, a serviceable NHL caliber player. But will they get an impact player? Will they get a future all-star player? Because a 3rd overall pick should become something more than just another roster player. I want a star who can score, not another Rick Green, Chad Kilger or Roman Hamrlik.

oh yeah for sure. But I mean his track record at the draft (1st rounders specifically) doesn't scream 'he's gonna eff this up LIKE HE ALWAYS DOES'. There likely will be better players drafted after some of MB's picks (which you can say about almost every team) but I just don't see any real evidence that he's gonna screw up this pick.

And again they were all mostly late 1st rounders. Scherbak can be a beaut. Sergachev looks like a very likely top pairing guy when he matures. Galch can still put it all together and at worst he'll be the 2nd best forward from that draft, as far as I can tell. These 3 have 'star' potential. You still have Juulsen who was unanimously praised and Poehling who, besides the playoffs, couldn't have had a better year really.
 
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