McKeen's New Top 100, March edition
- Thread starter King'sPawn
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Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
J17ster said:
That could be true, although perhaps Frolik just isn't as good as originally advertized? That's the danger when hyping kids two or more years prior to their draft year. The same appears to be happening to a guy like Kessel. Sometimes kids don't advance or other kids pass them by.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
Rabid Ranger said:
From what I read, huge difference between the Frolik and Kessel situation. Unless I am reading wrongly, Frolik is seen as the most likely to boom or bust in the entire top tier of the draft so a huge risk taken at the very top. Kessel merely did not progress in the way most thought this year. He did indeed progress but apparently did not grow to that next level many thought that he would and separate himself from everyone else. We need to remember though that he is seventeen years old and that he still has three good years of one of the more critical growth stages in an NHL players career ahead of him. I think that many here have over-reacted in his case, but time will tell.
hawksfan50 said:
Kessel, Staal, Johnson, Backstrom, Mueller, Sheppard, Brassard, Frolik, Williams, Toews, Bernier to me are all better prospects IMO. Little has no chance of going #6.
Jaded-Fan said:
Kessel is 18
. Frolik is being underestimated alot now. For instance Toews is given excuses for his average WJ for being very young, which is understandable. Frolik who is also younger than most in the draft year wasn't given that excuse, and instead everyone said he was overhyped. People also forget what league he plays in. Most posters are pretty naive about Frolik and his situation.Where did they rank Bernier?
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
J17ster said:Kessel is 18
Where did they rank Bernier?
Its all a projection as to how it will translate to the NHL, and not just how it will translate to the NHL but translate three or so years from now when they are no longer late teens but adults. And face it these all are basically still kids. The stats that Frolik put up are some indication, but not the be all and end all.
Jaded-Fan said:
When trying to gauge an idea of Frolik and his potential, you really can't look at his stats as some people have. I mean Jagr put similar stats to Frolik at the same age.
davenash
Registered User
RE: Frolik.... I read in «Le Journal Du Québec» that Frolik will likely play in the CHL next year, for the Rimouski Oceanic (except, of course, if he finds a spot in the team that will draft him).
Thats definately interesting but if I'm the team that drafts Frolik i would like to do what the Devils did with Bergfors and try to sign him and get him in the AHL.davenash said:
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Jaded-Fan said:
I'm not really comparing Frolik and Kessel. My point is there is a danger in anointing "x" prospect as #1 (or whatever) in their draft year one or two years ahead of time. It's been done several times before (notably with a guy like Spezza) and another player pulls ahead (like Kovalchuk did). There's also the unknown factor with Frolik, as he plays in a men's league as a teenager. Sometimes that's tough to gauge.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
J17ster said:Kessel is 18
Where did they rank Bernier?
Well, it is easier for Toews to be scouted, as he's playing for a prominent NCAA team. He was also highly touted prior to joining the Sioux, being the number one overall pick in the WHL draft. He's also performing very well as a 17 year old (not turning 18 until late April).
J17ster said:
Jaromir Jagr (born 15-02-1972)
Season 88/89: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 39 GP - 8 Goals - 10 Assists - 18 Points
Season 89/90: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 51 GP - 30 Goals - 30 Assists - 60 Points
Top goal scorer Czechoslovakian Extraliga playoffs 1989-90
All-Star team Czechoslovakian Extraliga 1989-90
Michael Frolik (born 17-02-1988)
Season 04/05: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 27 GP - 3 Goals - 1 Assist - 4 Points
Season 05/06: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 48 GP - 2 Goals - 7 Assists - 9 Points
And Jagr put this up at a time when the top Czech and Slovakian players still played in the Extraliga.
monster_bertuzzi said:
After Eric Staal was drafted, I eard he had other brothers... and I remember earing that one of his brother should become a better NHLer. I think they meant Jordan.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Alter Haudegen said:
Jaromir Jagr (born 15-02-1972)
Season 88/89: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 39 GP - 8 Goals - 10 Assists - 18 Points
Season 89/90: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 51 GP - 30 Goals - 30 Assists - 60 Points
Top goal scorer Czechoslovakian Extraliga playoffs 1989-90
All-Star team Czechoslovakian Extraliga 1989-90
Michael Frolik (born 17-02-1988)
Season 04/05: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 27 GP - 3 Goals - 1 Assist - 4 Points
Season 05/06: HC Kladno (Extraliga) - 48 GP - 2 Goals - 7 Assists - 9 Points
And Jagr put this up at a time when the top Czech and Slovakian players still played in the Extraliga.
On top of that Frolik has been very underwhelming in prominent international competitions, including the U18's last year and the WJC's this year. People say Kessel wasn't up to snuff this year, well Frolik REALLY wasn't up to snuff. Potential is all well and good, but certain contexts a player has to produce.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Kafka said:
Jordan Staal is a worthy top five selection. Yes, he has the pedigree, but he also has all the tools and projectable size.
Dr.Sens(e) said:
Steblick is 100% right about NHL teams' lists. A lot of people's heads would spin if they saw NHL team's actual draft rankings.
As for your comment above about the similarity of different scouting services' lists, I can't agree with you on that. I'm not about to speak for any other service but if I had a dollar for every time someone took issue with one of the Young Guns rankings, I'd be retired and on a beach in Maui right now. Heck, I remember an HF mod actually referring to one of our lists in 2004 as "controversial" because of the players we had in our Top 10. Last year, Bob McKenzie made a remark on the TV draft broadcast, regarding the Setoguchi pick, that was something to the effect of the pick being a shocker and if I'm not mistaken he based that on the fact that draft services had Setoguchi in the 20th pick range. Well, Young Guns had him at #7 and there are a lot of other examples like that.
In last year's Young Guns draft guide we included a story which was the result of interviews with various NHL team officials and one of the things our subscribers found most surprising was that the teams we had spoken to typically only ranked between 80 and 100 players going into the draft. If you're looking at approx. 300 players being selected in any given draft and teams are only going in with rankings of 80 - 100 players, it's pretty obvious that teams have very different lists.
FYI - We'll be making that story available online on our site - closer to the draft - in separate installments. You won't have to be a subscriber to access it.
I think some of those scouts are whacko then, Eric looks like he's going to be a top five player in this league.Draft Guru said:All I have to say is wow.
How many times have you seen him play? And how many times have you seen everyone else play?
I have him at #3 behind EJ and Kessel. But number 2 is not ridiculously high for him. There's many scouts that feel Staal will be a better player than Kessel. And it really has very little to do with the name. Sure teams do recognize that this kid has two stud older brothers, but Jordan can flat out play. Scouts have been saying for years he has the potential to be better than Eric. Every time I've seen him play I've came away more and more impressed (4 times total). I've watched Kessel a fair bit too and I think his upside is higher than Jordan, but Staal will probably be the better all around player.
X-SHARKIE
Registered User
Setoguchi had a great year statistically. Did you by chance catch him to see if he developed his game?
Chief said:
Well, from Young Guns list in the top 15 - which is all I'm basing it on and where people typically get excited/upset one way or another - Burki is really the only guy not a consensus top 15 guy, and he has been on the rise into the first round on every list. Really, McKeens, Redline and ISS all have essentially the same players in the top 15 as Young Guns this year.
As to singling out Red Line as the more unique ranking, Young Guns is a bit less main stream than ISS, Hockey News and McKeens, I'll grant you that. But part of it is the different approaches. Red Line is simply a ranking based on their scouts (which is why it is a little more different list) versus the others which are typically more of a consensus list, and tend to gravitate to the same type of rankings. One is an opinion, the others are more of a poll. Which is Young Guns? I'm sure I read it at some point, but can't recall.
I've read a few things from YG in the past couple of years, and always enjoyed them, so looking forward to the next piece.
Letang fan 58
No More Fleury
monster_bertuzzi said:
As absolutely brutal a post as this is it's partly right..........Staal's pedigree raised him 5-7 spots easy on this list imo.......no chance is he 2 on this list......likley not top 5.......ive got him at 8 or 9. That said with his brother doing so well in the NHL this year there is no way he falls past 5.
Does anyone happen to know where Codey Burki is on the new list? THanks
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