McGuire says half would take Kessel and half would take Toews!

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AgentNaslund*

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Rabid Ranger said:
I disagree. First of all, I think regardless of what people think around here, Kessel is the clear-cut favorite, perhaps even lock for number one overall. His play this season with the Gophers has justified his number one ranking with EVERY scouting service. The real question is who is the favorite to be 2nd? IMO, that is where Toews, Frolik, and Johnson come in. If a team is looking for a d-man, Johnson could very well be the guy. After those three it comes to guys like Mueller and Staal to fill what would amount to the fifth and six positions.

The bottomline is, Kessel and Toews is nothing like Ovechkin and Malkin, because Toews in particular isn't the consensus number two player in this draft, regardless of what Pierre McGuire or Bob McKenzie thinks.


I dont wanna break your heart. But Kessel is not a slam dunk for the number 1 pick unlike Ovechkins year and Crosby's year. He is the number 1 prospect right now, and rather then him being a possibility for a number 1, players are after him for the number 1, but hes no slam dunk. Its similar, to Kovalchuks year, But instead of Spezza the only other guy that can go number 1, its like 3 other guys can take Kessels number 1 spot.


AS for the Pierre McGuire crap on half the gms willt ake Toews half will take Kessel, I strongly disaagree with him. Hes making up random numbers again. he has nothing to back up that 13 out of 30 gms will take Kessel over Crosby. THats just plain stupid. Nobody in the world would believe him. The same with the Half the gms will take Toews over Kessel. No one would believe him.
 

VOB

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Kessel needs to dominate the WJC in much the same way he dominated the U-18's last year. If he is able to do so then he will be a slam dunk, no matter how well Towes or anyone else plays, for the number 1 spot.

That of course is a big if. He wasn't anywhere near "dominant" during the summer evaluation tourney and really has not played to expecations this year. Granted expectations may have been to high but none the less, many scouts expected more.

As for Toews/Kessel's head to head match, the nod on Friday's game had to go to Kessel but it was anybody's game the next night and Toews certainly looked as good as Kessel.
 

Habs Icing

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AgentNaslund AS for the Pierre McGuire crap on half the gms willt ake Toews half will take Kessel said:
It's funny how posters on this site will take any statement from anyone when it agrees with their views but will slander an opposing "expert" as an idiot when he disagrees.

A G.M., with the consent of at least half his pro scouts, trades Joe Thornton for three hockey pucks and you guys still think McGuire is lying about the Kessel/Toews. Another G.M. trades Roy for three broken sticks and some of you guys think McGuire is off his rocker cause he states that a large number ofGMs would take Kessel over Crosby.

I think you guys are shooting the messenger because you don't like what he has to say. Maybe, drafting prospects isn't a slam dunk as most of you guys think and I don't care how many times you've seen Kessel or Toews play.
 

Frenzy31

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katodelder said:
Kessel – Blues
Frolik – Bruins
Toews – Capitals
Johnson – Jackets
Mueller – Penguins
Staal – Panthers
Little – Ducks

I think a lot may be decided at the WJC. Mueller, Johnson, Toews, Frolik and Kessel will either help their draft position or hurt it based on the performance.
 

HabLover

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Frenzy1 said:
I think a lot may be decided at the WJC. Mueller, Johnson, Toews, Frolik and Kessel will either help their draft position or hurt it based on the performance.

Toews just making Team Canada has boosted his stock, I mean he beat out guys like Setoguchi, Little and Espo.
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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HabLover said:
Toews just making Team Canada has boosted his stock, I mean he beat out guys like Setoguchi, Little and Espo.

Well if he is anywhere near a #1 pick he should. Espo is 16, Setoguchi isnt anywhere near as good and Toews is supposedly ranked higher than Little.
 

crosby_87

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HabLover said:
Toews just making Team Canada has boosted his stock, I mean he beat out guys like Setoguchi, Little and Espo.
Honestly I still can't figure out why anybody thought Esposito should be on the team ahead of Toews. Like I said before they picked the team, Toews and Esposito played on the same Shattuck team last year and Toews nearly doubled Esposito's points. So unless Esposito got way better I don't see how he could beat Toews out.
 

Ted Hoffman

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katodelder said:
Kessel – Blues
Frolik – Bruins
Toews – Capitals
Johnson – Jackets
Mueller – Penguins
Staal – Panthers
Little – Ducks
1. If the Blues finish dead last, someone else will end up with the #1 pick. That how it goes for the Blues.
2. The only way the Bruins pick 2nd is if they win the lottery - they'll likely be between 4 and 7.
3. At this rate, the Capitals will pick after the Penguins.

And I hate to say this, but even if they get the #1 overall pick I can see the Blues taking Frolik only because they've got a glut at center with Oshie and Soderberg. They could really use a top-flight winger to go with Backes.
 

Frenzy31

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Irish Blues said:
And I hate to say this, but even if they get the #1 overall pick I can see the Blues taking Frolik only because they've got a glut at center with Oshie and Soderberg. They could really use a top-flight winger to go with Backes.

You just love the Euros.

Kessel can play both Wing and Center. There is some thought that Oshie will be centering a line w/ Kessel and Shremp.
 

Ted Hoffman

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Frenzy1 said:
You just love the Euros.

Kessel can play both Wing and Center. There is some thought that Oshie will be centering a line w/ Kessel and Shremp.
If Kessel can play the wing, fantastic. I'll take Kessel-Oshie-Backes for a 1st line.
 

Rabid Ranger

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VOB said:
Kessel needs to dominate the WJC in much the same way he dominated the U-18's last year. If he is able to do so then he will be a slam dunk, no matter how well Towes or anyone else plays, for the number 1 spot.

That of course is a big if. He wasn't anywhere near "dominant" during the summer evaluation tourney and really has not played to expecations this year. Granted expectations may have been to high but none the less, many scouts expected more.

As for Toews/Kessel's head to head match, the nod on Friday's game had to go to Kessel but it was anybody's game the next night and Toews certainly looked as good as Kessel.


You're using the summer evaluation camp as a measuring stick? Come on. If there was ever a slam dunk for the U.S. WJC team it was Kessel. That camp meant nothing. As for playing to expectations this year, what did many scouts expect-two points a game? He's been one or two in scoring as a freshman on a Minnesota team that has several talented, older players. He plays on both special teams, is over a point per game, and has STEADILY gotten better each game. I'd like to see in print where scouts are disappointed in his play.

As for the Kessel/Toews match-up, Kessel was by far the best player on the ice on Friday, you're selling him short by saying he gets the "nod."
 

Rabid Ranger

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Irish Blues said:
1. If the Blues finish dead last, someone else will end up with the #1 pick. That how it goes for the Blues.
2. The only way the Bruins pick 2nd is if they win the lottery - they'll likely be between 4 and 7.
3. At this rate, the Capitals will pick after the Penguins.

And I hate to say this, but even if they get the #1 overall pick I can see the Blues taking Frolik only because they've got a glut at center with Oshie and Soderberg. They could really use a top-flight winger to go with Backes.


If the Blues had the number one overall pick and Larry Pleau at the helm, Kessel would be the guy, no doubt about it. NHL G.M;s don't pick for positional needs, it's always the best player available, and Kessel would be the best player available. Also, Kessel>Oshie, so Oshie would be the one to drop down the depth chart (even though he's a great prospect in his own right).
 

Rabid Ranger

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AgentNaslund said:
I dont wanna break your heart. But Kessel is not a slam dunk for the number 1 pick unlike Ovechkins year and Crosby's year. He is the number 1 prospect right now, and rather then him being a possibility for a number 1, players are after him for the number 1, but hes no slam dunk. Its similar, to Kovalchuks year, But instead of Spezza the only other guy that can go number 1, its like 3 other guys can take Kessels number 1 spot.


AS for the Pierre McGuire crap on half the gms willt ake Toews half will take Kessel, I strongly disaagree with him. Hes making up random numbers again. he has nothing to back up that 13 out of 30 gms will take Kessel over Crosby. THats just plain stupid. Nobody in the world would believe him. The same with the Half the gms will take Toews over Kessel. No one would believe him.

No one's breaking my heart. I just feel strongly that Kessel is the number one prospect in this draft and will be the top pick. As you say though, anything can happen come draft day.
 

VOB

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You're using the summer evaluation camp as a measuring stick? Come on. If there was ever a slam dunk for the U.S. WJC team it was Kessel.

Are you suggesting he did not deem the camp important enough to give it his all? What would that say about his characther? Come now though Rabid, we know that wasn't the case.


I'd like to see in print where scouts are disappointed in his play.what did many scouts expect-two points a game?

His performance has thus far been less than dominant in the NCAA. Some were actually expecting more production than his current 1.2 pts per game. As things stand right now, both Zach Parise and Thomas Vanek had more impressive stats during their freshman seasons (and yes both were true 18 year old freshman like Kessel) yet either one went first overall.


Like I said, if Kessel rips up the WJ tourney, then he will have a lock on the first overall pick...but if he doesn't...then the whole thing will be wide open!
 

AgentNaslund*

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Rabid Ranger said:
You're using the summer evaluation camp as a measuring stick? Come on. If there was ever a slam dunk for the U.S. WJC team it was Kessel. That camp meant nothing. As for playing to expectations this year, what did many scouts expect-two points a game? He's been one or two in scoring as a freshman on a Minnesota team that has several talented, older players. He plays on both special teams, is over a point per game, and has STEADILY gotten better each game. I'd like to see in print where scouts are disappointed in his play.

As for the Kessel/Toews match-up, Kessel was by far the best player on the ice on Friday, you're selling him short by saying he gets the "nod."

Man, when people complain about you being nationalist, they have the right too. Once again your doing the Kessel rave. Your the only guy that thought he was "by far" the better player of the 2, when expert analysist, and other American but not to so biased fans thought the gap was closer then you indicated. good job.

Kessel needs to dominate the WJC in much the same way he dominated the U-18's last year. If he is able to do so then he will be a slam dunk, no matter how well Towes or anyone else plays, for the number 1 spot.

he doesent have to dominate. As long as he plays exceptional and finish his season strong with college he will go number 1. Even if Toews finish with the same amount of points then him Kessel will still go number 1. Dynamic wingers do not come as often as well rounded complete centermens.
 

Rabid Ranger

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AgentNaslund said:
Man, when people complain about you being nationalist, they have the right too. Once again your doing the Kessel rave. Your the only guy that thought he was "by far" the better player of the 2, when expert analysist, and other American but not to so biased fans thought the gap was closer then you indicated. good job.



he doesent have to dominate. As long as he plays exceptional and finish his season strong with college he will go number 1. Even if Toews finish with the same amount of points then him Kessel will still go number 1. Dynamic wingers do not come as often as well rounded complete centermens.


I'm not the only one who thinks Kessel was the best player on the ice during the Friday tilt of the Minnesota/North Dakota match-up. The announcers sure seemed to think so, as did several of the posters here, you know, people who watched the two games. By the way, did you? Did VOB, or are you two just getting your info from Bob McKenzie?
 

#66

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Rabid Ranger said:
I'm not the only one who thinks Kessel was the best player on the ice during the Friday tilt of the Minnesota/North Dakota match-up. The announcers sure seemed to think so, as did several of the posters here, you know, people who watched the two games. By the way, did you? Did VOB, or are you two just getting your info from Bob McKenzie?
I'll second that and if anyone looks some posts back I'm not even a Kessel fan. IMO Brian Lee was the best player on the ice that night though.
 

VOB

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Rabid Ranger said:
I'm not the only one who thinks Kessel was the best player on the ice during the Friday tilt of the Minnesota/North Dakota match-up. The announcers sure seemed to think so, as did several of the posters here, you know, people who watched the two games. By the way, did you? Did VOB, or are you two just getting your info from Bob McKenzie?


Yes, I did watch the game and didn't I say I would give the nod to Kessel?

Look it Rabid, Kessel is the number one rated prospect now but, unlike the last two entry drafts, he is not the runaway number one yet. Scouting services tend to agree with me in this assessment. As has been stated already, RedLine has already toyed with the idea of swapping Kessel and Toews while ISS has stated, using their own words..."We believe his skills are on par with No. 1-
ranked Phil Kessel," and CSB,from what I have been told is also very very high on Toews.

Kessel needs to have a big WJ tourney and it is very possible that Toews or Frolik could upstage him.

BTW, nice that you can see the games on TV but have you actually ever seen Kessel live and please please take off your red, white and blue underwear and try to be a little objective in this matter rather than attack everytime the status of your boy is questioned. Honestly, would you be so quick to defend him if he were Canadian? Me thinks not!
 
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