Post-Game Talk: McElhinney 2 - Habs 1

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Cole Caulifield

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Their D was noticeably better against Carolina than the prior games. Carolina regularly outshoots opponents and yesterday they had maybe one or two good scoring chances all game and scored on deflections. It was a really dominating performance most of the game for the habs.

I find that the offense has gone way down the since the western trip. Yesterday was of course a good game offensively where we had a lot of great chances but I'm talking about the pattern over the past 5 games or so.

EDIT: Danault has said himself they've tightened up defensively. Don't tell me that it hasn't come at cost offensively because that's just not true.
 
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admiralcadillac

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I find that the offense has gone way down the since the western trip. Yesterday was of course a good game offensively where we had a lot of great chances but I'm talking about the pattern over the past 5 games or so.

They played 7 games in 11 days, they weren't able to keep the pace up. I think that will be a problem as the season drags on too.
 
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26Mats

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1- It doesn't mean Skinner would actually have accepted to come here, and giving up a Poehling+ for an upcoming UFA when we are in a rebuild mode seems quite stupid.
2- Who cares..Sheary and Duclair..they are bottom 6 guys..we don't need them, we are rebuilding, we have plenty of kids to try. He got Armia and Peca. Like them or not, but getting adding those guys to our group made no sense.
3- I don't buy that Perron wanted to come here but I wanted no part of him anyways. He was for sure going to drop his play and signing him at 30, for a rebuild team, doesn't make much sense.

The Habs are closer to being a bottom placed team than anything else. Getting the guys you mentioned and moving picks for mediocre guys makes no sense. Maybe in a couple of years, but this past summer?..No.

We wouldn't have had to give up Poehling to get Skinner...

Even if we can't turn this around without tanking, I'd sign Perron to trade him in a year or two to a team looking for offense. At 6 million per year? No. At 4 million? Yes.
 

26Mats

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They wouldn't do much of anything without being lead by high end players and with the insulting excuse of a D group we have.

That's where differ: I'd at least like to see what they could do. Strength in numbers.

I'd at least like to see that over those types of players as half the top 9 and then Armia's and Shaw's filling out the top 9.
 

Kriss E

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That's where differ: I'd at least like to see what they could do. Strength in numbers.

I'd at least like to see that over those types of players as half the top 9 and then Armia's and Shaw's filling out the top 9.
You can like to see what they can do, but again, there's no high end talent, so don't expect high end results. Make Karlsson and Marchessault into 50pt guys like Gallagher and Tatar, Vegas doesn't go anywhere close to where they were. Not to mention, their D played much better than ours.
 

Kriss E

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We wouldn't have had to give up Poehling to get Skinner...

Even if we can't turn this around without tanking, I'd sign Perron to trade him in a year or two to a team looking for offense. At 6 million per year? No. At 4 million? Yes.
I prefer not to have Perron and finish worse in order to get a higher pick.
 
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26Mats

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You can like to see what they can do, but again, there's no high end talent, so don't expect high end results. Make Karlsson and Marchessault into 50pt guys like Gallagher and Tatar, Vegas doesn't go anywhere close to where they were. Not to mention, their D played much better than ours.

I think we could have had a better forward corps than Vegas had last year with the right moves this summer.
 

SirClintonPortis

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Let me put it as bluntly and controversially as possible:

I would have really liked to have seen how good the following top 9 would have been, with a decent dcore anchored by Weber and Petry and Juulsen and the left filled in by trades using a position of depth at forward, as well as a Price in form.

Drouin Domi Galchenyuk
Tatar Danault Gallagher
Skinner Kotkaniemi Perron
Sheary Byron/Chaput Duclair

Byron/Lehkonen/Shaw/Armia/Hudon/Scherbak as trade bait or taking the spot of players in the above 12 being traded for help on D.

Note that top 9 is all 1st rounders, except for Tatar and Gallagher who were small players that were passed over in the past when fewer 1st rounders were small.
Oh, then the prototype you are hinting at is Boston's SC team. That Boston team is not that easy to mimic.

No one matches Patrice Bergeron on the roster. Not Danault for sure. KK, maybe in 5 years. Domi=Krejci? Fair to grant him that, but his penchant for hurting himself and being undisciplined would be points against him if I wanted to argue against such an equivalence. Already, our center depth is faltering.

Tatar is not Lucic or Marchand. Oh, he's hot now, but the Tatar I expect is the one who failed to look like a superstar despite playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Drouin is 50/50. A Briere type who gives one game but takes it away the next. Gallagher, can't fault his work ethic, but he's just beaten in the playoffs. Nathan Horton was quite prolific in the playoffs. Gallagher is a cut below.

So, already, Patrice Bergeron and Nathan Horton are players the Bruins had that we don't. Yes, Boston beat Vancouver without Horton, but he was vital for them to get to that dance. The top 2-way center in the league and a RW who can post 17 points in 21 games.

The defense cannot compare to the Bruins. Chara is not a better Weber. He's a much more adept freak and much more athletic. Chara can make his own passes and surprisingly coordinated for a big man. And he had Seidenberg as his partner.

Boychuk, Ference, Kaberle, McQuaid round out the D. Whatever they were, they provided more than our jokes like Benn and Schlemko. Kaberle, even though relegated to the third pair, produced significant and meaningful offense during the Finals. Juulsen or Mete are not there yet offensively. Petry is only a 40 point guy because Weber wasn't here. But his previous playoffs performances can only be considered f***ing awful.

Even the role players had significant talent. Peverley, Kelly, Ryder. Not slouches. In fact, Peverley and Ryder were top 6 rejects. We're putting bottom 6ers into our top 6. Big difference.

And Tim Thomas went up another level, beyond Price in form, whatever that means.

The short and sweet is that Boston had better Dmen, centers, goalie, and forward depth in general.
 

WhiskeySeven*

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Oh, then the prototype you are hinting at is Boston's SC team. That Boston team is not that easy to mimic.

No one matches Patrice Bergeron on the roster. Not Danault for sure. KK, maybe in 5 years. Domi=Krejci? Fair to grant him that, but his penchant for hurting himself and being undisciplined would be points against him if I wanted to argue against such an equivalence. Already, our center depth is faltering.

Tatar is not Lucic or Marchand. Oh, he's hot now, but the Tatar I expect is the one who failed to look like a superstar despite playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Drouin is 50/50. A Briere type who gives one game but takes it away the next. Gallagher, can't fault his work ethic, but he's just beaten in the playoffs. Nathan Horton was quite prolific in the playoffs. Gallagher is a cut below.

So, already, Patrice Bergeron and Nathan Horton are players the Bruins had that we don't. Yes, Boston beat Vancouver without Horton, but he was vital for them to get to that dance. The top 2-way center in the league and a RW who can post 17 points in 21 games.

The defense cannot compare to the Bruins. Chara is not a better Weber. He's a much more adept freak and much more athletic. Chara can make his own passes and surprisingly coordinated for a big man. And he had Seidenberg as his partner.

Boychuk, Ference, Kaberle, McQuaid round out the D. Whatever they were, they provided more than our jokes like Benn and Schlemko. Kaberle, even though relegated to the third pair, produced significant and meaningful offense during the Finals. Juulsen or Mete are not there yet offensively. Petry is only a 40 point guy because Weber wasn't here. But his previous playoffs performances can only be considered ****ing awful.

Even the role players had significant talent. Peverley, Kelly, Ryder. Not slouches. In fact, Peverley and Ryder were top 6 rejects. We're putting bottom 6ers into our top 6. Big difference.

And Tim Thomas went up another level, beyond Price in form, whatever that means.

The short and sweet is that Boston had better Dmen, centers, goalie, and forward depth in general.
Tim Thomas was as frightening as Hasek during his peak. I hated him so much.
 

bsl

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That ain't high end mate. KK is a rookie who just turned 18 a few months ago. It'll be good if he can crack 40pts in his rookie year. Tatar-Gallagher...they're 45-50pt guys...So was Domi, now, he might surpass that by a big margin but that's completely unexpected. If he does and on more than one occasion, then he'll qualify as high end. Drouin had the potential at 3rd overall, but I have my doubts he'll get there. Best hope is for him to elevate his game in the POs to that level.
I think those guys *might* become high end, but that would be exceeding everyone's expectations.

Also, there is no way we were getting the 4 guys you mentioned.
Also skinner is going to regress to mean hard. His sh % is not sustainable. This team is nowhere close to contending and a bunch of ok ufa pickups this summer would have been exactly the worst thing to do.
 

bsl

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Agreed. If we are going to lose, it's better to lose with 2 or 3 goals against vs more than 3 allowed. I am very concerned with Price loosing patience and asking for a trade so early on in his monster contract.

Shore up the D in terms of shutdown ability. That should be the focus and if you look at that recent games, it has been by the coaches. Problem is our 5/5 scoring has dried up.

If we can slip down to bottom 10 before the new year while we still play entertaining hockey, I'm one happy fan. We are sellers vs buyers at the deadline which is key to our team direction
They need offence from d. Last year and this year is the worst offence I’ve ever seen from Habs d. They don’t need a bunch of 10 point ‘shutdiwn’ D men to shelter mr 10.5 million. You’re completely wrong on that point.
 
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Archijerej

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What's truly sad atm is that we have decided to move away from the successful offense first style which saw us win more games than we lost.... in order to try and save Price and Niemi.... Still doesn't provide more wins and it kills the entertainment value. Good job coaching staff. Habs management will never learn.
Did you watch the game?
 

Habs Halifax

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They need offence from d. Last year and this year is the worst offence I’ve ever seen from Habs d. They don’t need a bunch of 10 point ‘shutdiwn’ D men to shelter mr 10.5 million. You’re completely wrong on that point.

I would like more offense from our D but with me it starts with shutdown ability first. Then I look at offensive ability. I value what Juulsen has as skills way more than Mete for example. Building a defense requires some offense but we can't ignore the shutdown aspect of things. It's important and could yield the better overall results with a guy like Price in net.

At the moment, our only shutdown types are Weber, Petry, Juulsen. Reilly and Mete have vision and very good skating but they don't produce that much offense and they are not very good in our own end.

I'm not talking about Alzner types, I'm talking about Juulsen and Brook types. I do like what I see so far with Romanov but it's early.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Also skinner is going to regress to mean hard. His sh % is not sustainable. This team is nowhere close to contending and a bunch of ok ufa pickups this summer would have been exactly the worst thing to do.

Skinner also had a NMC. The Ontario boy was not accepting a trade to Montreal.

I agree about us staying put. It's premature to make any moves trading any future assets for older players at this stage.
 

philipsson

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Was watching it on RDS..... our announcer friend seems to have problems identifying #8 Benn with #6 Weber from time to time...

o_O

One is a left-handed while the other one is not. Can't believe people (an announcer...) have problems identifying those kind of players LOL.
 

Kriss E

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Also skinner is going to regress to mean hard. His sh % is not sustainable. This team is nowhere close to contending and a bunch of ok ufa pickups this summer would have been exactly the worst thing to do.
Agreed. It would have made no sense.
 

Kriss E

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I would like more offense from our D but with me it starts with shutdown ability first. Then I look at offensive ability. I value what Juulsen has as skills way more than Mete for example. Building a defense requires some offense but we can't ignore the shutdown aspect of things. It's important and could yield the better overall results with a guy like Price in net.

At the moment, our only shutdown types are Weber, Petry, Juulsen. Reilly and Mete have vision and very good skating but they don't produce that much offense and they are not very good in our own end.

I'm not talking about Alzner types, I'm talking about Juulsen and Brook types. I do like what I see so far with Romanov but it's early.

Mete? Lol...You just said it yourself, he doesn't produce much offense. So not sure why you use him as an example of why you look at shutdown ability first.
A better example would be to point towards a Marc Andre Bergeron or Souray, saying you'd rather have a Juulsen than them.
 

Habs Halifax

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Mete? Lol...You just said it yourself, he doesn't produce much offense. So not sure why you use him as an example of why you look at shutdown ability first.
A better example would be to point towards a Marc Andre Bergeron or Souray, saying you'd rather have a Juulsen than them.

Don't think you understood my point.
 

Kriss E

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Yes, but you replied to my point where you misunderstood. So who cares at this stage. No sense continuing a misunderstanding
I simply stated your Mete example wasn't good. But hey, forgot, it's you...so obviously it turns into these pointless petty responses of yours.
 
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