Post-Game Talk: McDavid Giveth and Taketh

[Fourier]

A lot of people were also i nspired of Yzermans inspering offense in 80s early 90s. Its a lie to say otherwise
And you can win some cups with good defence, but you can win cups with good offense also.

I dont want to give a pass to McDavid, but I dont think he is capable in the same dimension as Draisaitl to be two way and putting up points or goals.

I think this is correct. Some of this focus is because sloppy defense just cost a game that the team could have won. But how often has this pair's offense been the reason the team won.

Right now McDavid and Draisiatl have been on the ice for 25 gf and 13 ga 5 vs 5. The GA rate is 2.46 ga/60 but the gf rate is 4.74 which is insane. By comparison when Nuge is on the ice the team has 12GF and 8GA 5 vs 5 and 3 of those GA came in one game. So his GA rate is 1.69. But the big criticism is that the second line needs to do more offensively to help out. In the end both lines have actually been contributing significantly to the team winning. The first line by substantially outscoring the oppositions best players even while giving up a fair bit. The second line while not scoring all that much has mostly shut down the opposition.

Ideally you want the top line to score just as much but give up less and the second line to score more but be just as stingy. This may be a the ideal but it may also be unrealistic.

 

[Chelis Chili]

McDAVID JOINS DRAISAITL IN 40-POINT CLUB

Oilers captain Connor McDavid (14-26—40 in 22 GP) collected three assists to become the second player to reach the 40-point mark this season, joining teammate Leon Draisaitl (16-27—43 in 22 GP) who had 1-1—2 Saturday. McDavid and Draisaitl became the third set of teammates in the last 30 years each with 40 or more points through their team’s first 22 games in a season.

* The Oilers feature multiple players each with 40 or more points through their first 22 games in a season for the third time in franchise history, following Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri combining for the feat in both 1983-84 and 1984-85.

* McDavid has registered nine points in his last two games (3-6—9) and extended his scoring streak to seven contests overall (8-9—17). Draisaitl pushed his point streak to 12 games (10-17—27), the longest active run in the NHL.

 

[bucks_oil]

McDavids back check in overtime was pretty horrific not gonna lie .

Was to blame on one of the other goals as well... if I recall correctly.

 

[bucks_oil]

I think this is correct. Some of this focus is because sloppy defense just cost a game that the team could have won. But how often has this pair's offense been the reason the team won.

Right now McDavid and Draisiatl have been on the ice for 25 gf and 13 ga 5 vs 5. The GA rate is 2.46 ga/60 but the gf rate is 4.74 which is insane. By comparison when Nuge is on the ice the team has 12GF and 8GA 5 vs 5 and 3 of those GA came in one game. So his GA rate is 1.69. But the big criticism is that the second line needs to do more offensively to help out. In the end both lines have actually been contributing significantly to the team winning. The first line by substantially outscoring the oppositions best players even while giving up a fair bit. The second line while not scoring all that much has mostly shut down the opposition.

Ideally you want the top line to score just as much but give up less and the second line to score more but be just as stingy. This may be a the ideal but it may also be unrealistic.

I agree with all of this...

but I don't think we can have a double standard on effort just because someone has talent. Some of McDavid's back-checking has been just poor effort and that shows not only to those fans (and I'm a huge fan of McD) who've noticed but far more importantly to his teammates.

He's a great kid with great leadership potential, so I'm sure he made a comment about it to his teammates (least I hope he did). Good teams can't have that kind of stuff happening. And if your captain is doing it, it's a double whammy, cuz then he can't scold a Khaira or a Chiasson if they do the same (unless he's already owned it... hope so)... and that's what our leadership needs to do to hold each other accountable. (when we were last a strong team, we were so because our HoF Dman didn't ever take shift off, that percolates up and down the lineup)

 

[bucks_oil]

I'm actually stunned that people are actually calling out McDavids weak defence. It wasn't that long ago that this board (and every other board for that matter) would have crucified somebody for suggesting McDavid, or Hall, or Yakupov, or any of our other core players needed to give more effort without the puck. I don't know how many times I heard people say, "offensive players all cheat for offence" and "his job is to score, not play defence".

It's nice we can finally look at these players with objectivity. It's possible to appreciate a player, and also recognize they're not perfect.

IMO that's because we have a decent team and the different between decent team and a great one is consistent effort by all players at both ends of the ice... if we played with the level of effort and support of our teammates as our 2006 team did, we'd be a 115 point President's trophy winner.

And we may be rounding into that team... it's tantalizingly close... which is why these obvious exceptions to that type of team-play merit discussion.

 

[bucks_oil]

Heres the issue, you guys calling out McDavid... if he doesn't play the way he does and concentrates on D as hard as he does Offence then this team wont score at all. Think about it for a second, if you know that if you're not scoring then the there isn't anyone else on a different line that can step up and have alleviate that burden then ofc you have to concentrate on getting that puck to the back of the net, plain and simple.

Not excusing the defensive effort but it does explain it

Sorry... that's just not true. On Heiskanen's goal he get's back goal side of the shooter. He even checks his shoulder about 2-3 seconds before the goal and then just "forgets" about him as he sneaks in from the point. That's just a lack of awareness and attention to detail that has nothing to do with "prioritizing" offense.

And in OT... how is it prioritizing offense to let a guy in alone on your goalie... are you hoping for an assist off the goal-pads or something?

And maybe it just comes down to mentality and how your wired. I'm a defense first player and no amount of training would ever make me offensively creative. But I do feel that offensively creative guys, who can read the play several steps ahead should also be able to see what is about to happen against them. No?

 

[Draiskull]

Extended shifts are also a factor. Both had a chance to change but didn't in OT.
The goal was scored at 1:24 of OT.

 

[gordonhught]

Extended shifts are also a factor. Both had a chance to change but didn't in OT.
The goal was scored at 1:24 of OT.

You could tell the Oilers were in trouble after they lost possession on the opening faceoff of overtime.

All Dallas had to do was maintain possession and get Leon and McDavid tired. Then, Dallas could put Seguin and Benn on the ice.

Dallas played OT smart.

 

[Stoneman89]

You could tell the Oilers were in trouble after they lost possession on the opening faceoff of overtime.

All Dallas had to do was maintain possession and get Leon and McDavid tired. Then, Dallas could put Seguin and Benn on the ice.

Dallas played OT smart.

For sure, Drai and McDavid didn't do anything to help themselves by staying out too long. The Stars top 4 aren't exactly chopped liver. Usually face-offs at centre ice are no big deal, but in OT, they really are crucial, as puck possession is the key. As well as getting off the ice before you get tired.

 

[MaxR11]

I agree with all of this...

but I don't think we can have a double standard on effort just because someone has talent. Some of McDavid's back-checking has been just poor effort and that shows not only to those fans (and I'm a huge fan of McD) who've noticed but far more importantly to his teammates.

He's a great kid with great leadership potential, so I'm sure he made a comment about it to his teammates (least I hope he did). Good teams can't have that kind of stuff happening. And if your captain is doing it, it's a double whammy, cuz then he can't scold a Khaira or a Chiasson if they do the same (unless he's already owned it... hope so)... and that's what our leadership needs to do to hold each other accountable. (when we were last a strong team, we were so because our HoF Dman didn't ever take shift off, that percolates up and down the lineup)

Absolutely! Obviously, guys on the 3rd and 4th line aren't consciously going to think, "well, Connor is giving an a$$ effort on d again tonight so i can as well" but you're bang on when you take about habits and attitudes percolating and spreading up and down the line up. The team is an organism and things like the mindset of effort and valuing defence and keeping the puck out of the net absolutely spreads and ingrains itself into the collective mind of the team. Guys feed off each other's energy and habits (both in positive ways or negative ways). That is how sagging attitudes etc can negatively affect the entire team.

 

[dssource]

Had to watch this game in chunks. Felt like I watched different games. First was good. Second was a strong playoff team. Third was Oilerz decade of darkness. Stars came out with a mission. P.Russell doesn't score then gets a penalty and all down hill from there. Momentum gone. Can't let that happen.

Learn from the lost point and respond in the next game, which they should be trying to avenge that last sjs loss anyway.

Before the season started I told my buddies to look out for the stars this year. Looks like they are back on track and yet Benn and especially Seguin are still playing like trash (Benn wasn't good but at least he was noticeable in this one). I didn't even know Seguin was playing until he scored late in the third. If those 2 get going, that will be a dangerous team.

 

[bucks_oil]

Absolutely! Obviously, guys on the 3rd and 4th line aren't consciously going to think, "well, Connor is giving an a$$ effort on d again tonight so i can as well" but you're bang on when you take about habits and attitudes percolating and spreading up and down the line up. The team is an organism and things like the mindset of effort and valuing defence and keeping the puck out of the net absolutely spreads and ingrains itself into the collective mind of the team. Guys feed off each other's energy and habits (both in positive ways or negative ways). That is how sagging attitudes etc can negatively affect the entire team.

Well, thankfully, with some of the negativity washed from the team this offseason, it isn't about "sagging attitudes" this year. Or at least I don't see any of that right now.

These kinds of plays happen all the time... mostly due to a lack of awareness, inappropriate focus (puck or teammates vs your own man), lack of concentration, and sometimes exhaustion and hypoxia (which McD and Drai are certainly entitled to given their burden). At this level "lack of awareness" would be difficult for a coach to accept on a routine play, but then again, that's why you have a coach.

But there is a difference between understanding that they happen and how they happened, and excusing them.

Physical mistakes (guy gets beat wide by speed, or a guy puts a puck into a crest) are inevitable, excusable, but need to be compensated for... e.g. not every team has guys that can snipe, but every team has guys that can bang in rebounds provided you get bodies in front. You can coach around the physical limitations of your team and still win.

Mental mistakes ("forgetting" to cover your man, "forgetting" to back check) are also inevitable (we are all human), but never excusable. A good teammate on a good team needs to i) individually limit his, ii) have a teammates' back when he makes one, and iii) always acknowledge the poor play with a simple "my bad, that was my guy" or similar.

If you have team that systematically does this, the errors get fewer, the morale stays high, and the team inevitably wins more than its share.

 

[SwedishFire]

I think this is correct. Some of this focus is because sloppy defense just cost a game that the team could have won. But how often has this pair's offense been the reason the team won.

Right now McDavid and Draisiatl have been on the ice for 25 gf and 13 ga 5 vs 5. The GA rate is 2.46 ga/60 but the gf rate is 4.74 which is insane. By comparison when Nuge is on the ice the team has 12GF and 8GA 5 vs 5 and 3 of those GA came in one game. So his GA rate is 1.69. But the big criticism is that the second line needs to do more offensively to help out. In the end both lines have actually been contributing significantly to the team winning. The first line by substantially outscoring the oppositions best players even while giving up a fair bit. The second line while not scoring all that much has mostly shut down the opposition.

Ideally you want the top line to score just as much but give up less and the second line to score more but be just as stingy. This may be a the ideal but it may also be unrealistic.

I think there is a big lie from many in here, of course we enjoy victories, but a guilty pleasure is also the McPoints watch and excitement, witht he Draisaitl pointhoarding. I find it very entertaining and uplifting. It doesnt happen no more, and i really enjoy it, but of course I enjoy victories also. But Im on the side of more of a 6 - 5 voctory than a 3 -1. Im wired that way. I can compromise and want a 5 - 4 victory, or a 4 - 2 victory in the worst case.. Im not impossible.

 

[GodPucker]

Man I pasted a stat onto the mains.

Last 82 games

Drai 120 points
McDavid 130

lol that is nuts

 

[MaxR11]

Well, thankfully, with some of the negativity washed from the team this offseason, it isn't about "sagging attitudes" this year. Or at least I don't see any of that right now.

These kinds of plays happen all the time... mostly due to a lack of awareness, inappropriate focus (puck or teammates vs your own man), lack of concentration, and sometimes exhaustion and hypoxia (which McD and Drai are certainly entitled to given their burden). At this level "lack of awareness" would be difficult for a coach to accept on a routine play, but then again, that's why you have a coach.

But there is a difference between understanding that they happen and how they happened, and excusing them.

Physical mistakes (guy gets beat wide by speed, or a guy puts a puck into a crest) are inevitable, excusable, but need to be compensated for... e.g. not every team has guys that can snipe, but every team has guys that can bang in rebounds provided you get bodies in front. You can coach around the physical limitations of your team and still win.

Mental mistakes ("forgetting" to cover your man, "forgetting" to back check) are also inevitable (we are all human), but never excusable. A good teammate on a good team needs to i) individually limit his, ii) have a teammates' back when he makes one, and iii) always acknowledge the poor play with a simple "my bad, that was my guy" or similar.

If you have team that systematically does this, the errors get fewer, the morale stays high, and the team inevitably wins more than its share.

Agree, not much "sag" this year. Was just using it as an example from previous years. There are common denominators from this year's success so far and 2016-17. Resiliency, buy in, playing for each other and valuing playing hard in the d zone/backcheck thus making the goalies look good.

Yes, if people excuse those sorts of mistakes and play it to me shows a bit of loser mentality. Cannot excuse it and MUST learn from it and REALLY learn from it not just say you will. Actions speak louder than words.

As I said, most of the mistakes I've seen from Drai and Connor in the past year or more when they have stretches of poor/lazy D play looks like it's less "mental" or "physical" mistakes and more like it's the willingness to expend mental and physical engagement and effort. Cheating for points. Conserving energy. Not valuing keeping the puck out of the net over collecting points. To me it seems at times its more of a want thing.

Ya, in the 80s you can get away with river hockey and exchange chances (if you're the Oilers), but in modern hockey, with the parity and more emphasis on systematic defence you can't get away with it and be a consistent successful team and cup contender. Need to get into better habits to keep improving and get there.

In some ways it's almost good it bit them in the a$$ last game because maybe it shone a direct light into the mistake and they can better learn from it going forward. Almost certainly, Connor and Drai would have stood up in the room and apologized for their play after the game. id be shocked if they didn't. We'll keep watching the rest of the season to see if the lesson was learned....

 

[KlefDown]

We are a far better team than Sharks imo
gotta beat them tonight and put them in their place and prove last game was a fluke

 

[oljimmy]

One last thought that this game brings to mind is: we are only 2-2 in overtime, about league average. Despite allegedly having a "cheat code" line, we aren't dominating overtimes at all, which is honestly something I think Tippett should be working on. The talent is obviously among the best in the league but we've had a surprising number of OT mishaps this year already. Tighten that up and it would net us 4-5 more points in the standings overall.

 

[MaxR11]

One last thought that this game brings to mind is: we are only 2-2 in overtime, about league average. Despite allegedly having a "cheat code" line, we aren't dominating overtimes at all, which is honestly something I think Tippett should be working on. The talent is obviously among the best in the league but we've had a surprising number of OT mishaps this year already. Tighten that up and it would net us 4-5 more points in the standings overall.

Teams are learning how to play connor/drai.... even though theyre still at times pretty unstoppable. It's obvious they're trying to drain mcdrais gas tank with better puck possession. Tips gonna have to find a second pair to play decent minutes out there and be able to rest mcdrai more in OT.