Value of: McCarron to the Leafs

[Habs Halifax]

Babcock is producing results. His main objective at this point in the rebuild is to continue to develop the young players which he's doing a great job of. That's the only thing they need to be concerned with right now, not the standings. The continued improvement of their young core is obvious and measurable. And just watching the team it's obvious how much they've improved since last season. But they're still a bottom feeder so going from the worst in the league to only one of the worst teams isn't always easily reflected in the standings.

This is year #2 of a full rebuild. Absolutely they should not be expected to be making big jump in the standings from last year. It's only the impatient fans on here that are stating otherwise. Year 3 is typically where you start to see improvement in the standings and possibly inch closer to a playoff spot. It's not until years 4-5 that you should be expected to start locking up playoff spots. Full rebuilds take time and they end up with better results if they're done slowly. Not something our fickle fan base is good at accepting.

I guess what I'm saying is this... What do the Leafs do last year and this year with a different coach than Babcock? How much different would it be vs what is was?

- Can't go worse than last place last year. Congratulations goes to Babcock for that.

- The young guns are responsible for how exciting the Leafs are to watch this year and the extra offense they bring. AM, MM, WN are just that dam good and you don't need a coach to do what they have been doing IMO.

See my point? I get what your saying about what Babcock brings and how he's mentoring the players and team confidence (etc). However, I expected him to have the leafs playing a better team D and what I've seen so far, it's not the case. A product of the players on the ice? Maybe. But putting Babcock on a pedestal where he can do no wrong sounds ridiculous to me.

I would say he's done an OK job. But a wonderful job? I don't see the evidence. The only thing he's done a wonderful job at is handle the media and the crazy **** and comments they come up with.

 

[slimbob8]

I guess what I'm saying is this... What do the Leafs do last year and this year with a different coach than Babcock? How much different would it be vs what is was?

- Can't go worse than last place last year. Congratulations goes to Babcock for that.

- The young guns are responsible for how exciting the Leafs are to watch this year and the extra offense they bring. AM, MM, WN are just that dam good and you don't need a coach to do what they have been doing IMO.

See my point? I get what your saying about what Babcock brings and how he's mentoring the players and team confidence (etc). However, I expected him to have the leafs playing a better team D and what I've seen so far, it's not the case. A product of the players on the ice? Maybe. But putting Babcock on a pedestal where he can do no wrong sounds ridiculous to me.

I would say he's done an OK job. But a wonderful job? I don't see the evidence. The only thing he's done a wonderful job at is handle the media and the crazy **** and comments they come up with.

In terms of where they finish in the standings with this group over the first couple years of the rebuild, I don't think it would have mattered which coach they had so I agree in that sense. But they hired Babcock with the long term goal in mind. He wasn't going to be available when this team starts to turn the corner either so they had no choice to pay top dollar for him in the years where it doesn't matter.

But I think you're underselling what Babcock has done to this team. Through the Kessel era this team could score at will, but not once did they play a possession brand of hockey which is required if you wanna contend. Even last year when they finished dead last with zero talent to work with, there was a noticeable improvement on the system that they play and possessing the puck. That's a product of Babcock and it's going to stick with this young core as they grow.

 

[hototogisu]

Still havent heard anyone from MTL say if they have fixed his skating.

If they have, he could be a Brian Boyle type circa 2010. (20 goals, around 40 points) if he hits his potential. Thats something teams could be looking for.

If not, he will have a much harder time developing into more than a 4W who can play 3rd line when injuries occur.

Dont get me wrong, he is a nice sized prospect just his skating and a bit of thinking seemed to have held him back at the NHL level so far.

Nothing has "held him back at the NHL level" beyond his age, really. He's 21 years old. He's still developing. That's why he's in the AHL, because that's where he belongs right now.

To use your own example, Brian Boyle, also a 6'6" low first rounder with questionable offensive upside, finally made the NHL full time at age 25.

McCarron skates well for a guy his size, he always has. He'll never be confused for Dylan Larkin, but I certainly don't think it would stop him from being a good NHLer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

In terms of where they finish in the standings with this group over the first couple years of the rebuild, I don't think it would have mattered which coach they had so I agree in that sense. But they hired Babcock with the long term goal in mind. He wasn't going to be available when this team starts to turn the corner either so they had no choice to pay top dollar for him in the years where it doesn't matter.

But I think you're underselling what Babcock has done to this team. Through the Kessel era this team could score at will, but not once did they play a possession brand of hockey which is required if you wanna contend. Even last year when they finished dead last with zero talent to work with, there was a noticeable improvement on the system that they play and possessing the puck. That's a product of Babcock and it's going to stick with this young core as they grow.

From one fan to another... The #1 reason for the Leafs failures over the last whatever how many years is terrible team D. Same problem the Oilers had. Too much focus on offense at the cost of defense. Defense wins championships. Offense is needed to but shore up your D and don't allow easy goals.

Also, The Kessel era destroyed the Leafs rebuild many years ago. That trade was made at the worse time and it kept the Leafs a middle of the pack team for way too long.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nothing has "held him back at the NHL level" beyond his age, really. He's 21 years old. He's still developing. That's why he's in the AHL, because that's where he belongs right now.

To use your own example, Brian Boyle, also a 6'6" low first rounder with questionable offensive upside, finally made the NHL full time at age 25.

McCarron skates well for a guy his size, he always has. He'll never be confused for Dylan Larkin, but I certainly don't think it would stop him from being a good NHLer.

Agreed... McCarron's progression is going well. He's turning into exactly the player he's projected to be. A middle 6 guy and either a Center or RW.

 

[slimbob8]

Nothing has "held him back at the NHL level" beyond his age, really. He's 21 years old. He's still developing. That's why he's in the AHL, because that's where he belongs right now.

To use your own example, Brian Boyle, also a 6'6" low first rounder with questionable offensive upside, finally made the NHL full time at age 25.

McCarron skates well for a guy his size, he always has. He'll never be confused for Dylan Larkin, but I certainly don't think it would stop him from being a good NHLer.

I think Boyle and McCarron are comparables only in the sense that they're both big. Boyle may have had questionable offensive upside, but he was still the top scorer on his college team and finished with well over a point per game. Then followed that up with a 31 goal, 62 point AHL season. Those numbers are much, much better than anything McCarron has shown. He has 4 goals this season. Four.

Size is great and there's always going to be players with questionable upside that beat the odds, but at one point you gotta produce offensively to warrant that upside. Players that score a pile in the AHL (ie. Boyle) have trouble scoring at the NHL level so if you're not scoring in the AHL I don't see how you can expect anything more than a zero offense grinder if/when they make the NHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think Boyle and McCarron are comparables only in the sense that they're both big. Boyle may have had questionable offensive upside, but he was still the top scorer on his college team and finished with well over a point per game. Then followed that up with a 31 goal, 62 point AHL season. Those numbers are much, much better than anything McCarron has shown. He has 4 goals this season. Four.

Size is great and there's always going to be players with questionable upside that beat the odds, but at one point you gotta produce offensively to warrant that upside. Players that score a pile in the AHL (ie. Boyle) have trouble scoring at the NHL level so if you're not scoring in the AHL I don't see how you can expect anything more than a zero offense grinder if/when they make the NHL.

I find it funny how you up sell Boyle and down sell McCarron. "In Boyle's best AHL Season he had this... In McCarron's worse AHL season he had this". What a joke. McCarron had a bad 1st year with the Knights but his 2nd OHL season was pretty impressive (68 pts in 56 games). And was a very important piece of the Generals winning the Memorial Cup.

Boyle and McCarron are indeed good comparisons.

 

[hototogisu]

I think Boyle and McCarron are comparables only in the sense that they're both big. Boyle may have had questionable offensive upside, but he was still the top scorer on his college team and finished with well over a point per game. Then followed that up with a 31 goal, 62 point AHL season. Those numbers are much, much better than anything McCarron has shown. He has 4 goals this season. Four.

Size is great and there's always going to be players with questionable upside that beat the odds, but at one point you gotta produce offensively to warrant that upside. Players that score a pile in the AHL (ie. Boyle) have trouble scoring at the NHL level so if you're not scoring in the AHL I don't see how you can expect anything more than a zero offense grinder if/when they make the NHL.

Boyle was also 23 when he put up his 30-30 season in the AHL. Want to wait until McCarron hits 23 before drawing a comparison, or should we just proceed to the write-off now?

As far as 31 goals in his first AHL season being "much, much better" than anything McCarron has done, McCarron was on pace for 24 goals in his first AHL season (again, at 20 years old compared to 23 for Boyle) were it not for an extended NHL call up. So...what's your definition of "much, much better"?

You are right that McCarron has only 4 goals in the AHL this year. With 8 assists in 21 games, for a 0.57 PPG pace. When Boyle was 24 in the AHL he played 42 games. Finished with 10 goals. 0.50 PPG pace. Turned out OK for Boyle in the end, so why would you use McCarron's even better stats against him? Seems awfully unfair.

I'm not making the case for McCarron being an offensive stud, but I certainly think his output given his age is reasonably comparable to Boyle's. And if, in your words, Boyle scored "a pile" in the AHL, I guess that bodes well for McCarron too.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

The only things Gauthier has in common with McCarron are his size and that he was a first rounder.

So mccaron can't play defence then?

 

[KGL]

McCarron is particularly exciting. Leafs could find another 3C elsewhere, I'm sure. Not really worth what Habs fans are asking.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

They aren't prospects....they are players. Huge difference. But they are fabulous....no disputing that. But they were picked..3rd and 5th...so they should be all star calibre.

You're the one who wrote about a 10+ years time span...

Let's add Pacioretty, Subban, Gallagher, McDonagh ( ).

And did you really mean that most 3rd and 5th picks overall are all-stars ?

 

[covfefe]

I had a good chuckle at this. For a couple of reasons.

As a Habs fan, I apologize

 

[zeke]

Kapanen > McCarron but it's very close.

no its not.

 

[zeke]

Leafs value Bozak a bit too much. He's not 2nd line center material on the Habs roster.

yes he is.

 

[Morbo]

I guess what I'm saying is this... What do the Leafs do last year and this year with a different coach than Babcock? How much different would it be vs what is was?

Well, for one thing, two guys who struggled under other coaches have flourished under Babcock and taken another step -- Kadri and Jake Gardiner.

Special teams are both up from last year.

I'm perfectly content with Babcock as coach as the team gets better, which it will.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Beaulieu + McCarron for Gardiner or Nylander

LMFAO.

Amazing.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Lol @ Kapanen playing his way to blue-chip status.

Lol @ you thinking that a 20 year old that is dominating the AHL, ISN'T blue chip.

 

[jacks*]

Lol @ you thinking that a 20 year old that is dominating the AHL, ISN'T blue chip.

Is that the same 20 yr old that can't crack the Leafs great lineup?

 

[zeke]

leafs have 6 rookie forwards already. no need to rush kappy up.

 

[sansabri]

Lol @ you thinking that a 20 year old that is dominating the AHL, ISN'T blue chip.

LOL @ dominating the AHL as if that makes one a blue chipper. Kid couldn't stand out among his peers.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Is that the same 20 yr old that can't crack the Leafs great lineup?

This logic is terrible.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

LOL @ dominating the AHL as if that makes one a blue chipper. Kid couldn't stand out among his peers.

He's dominating the AHL but not standing out?

 

[Liferleafer]

I guess what I'm saying is this... What do the Leafs do last year and this year with a different coach than Babcock? How much different would it be vs what is was?

- Can't go worse than last place last year. Congratulations goes to Babcock for that.

- The young guns are responsible for how exciting the Leafs are to watch this year and the extra offense they bring. AM, MM, WN are just that dam good and you don't need a coach to do what they have been doing IMO.

See my point? I get what your saying about what Babcock brings and how he's mentoring the players and team confidence (etc). However, I expected him to have the leafs playing a better team D and what I've seen so far, it's not the case. A product of the players on the ice? Maybe. But putting Babcock on a pedestal where he can do no wrong sounds ridiculous to me.

I would say he's done an OK job. But a wonderful job? I don't see the evidence. The only thing he's done a wonderful job at is handle the media and the crazy **** and comments they come up with.

The fruits of Babcock's labor will be seen in a couple of years. It takes time to install a system. You can already see the team is playing a much better defensive system....unfortunately, there are still some players that make mistakes. (Looking at you Hunlak) But you can see Matthews getting a better 2 way game, Kadti has become an excellent 2 way center...we are starting to outshoot teams on a more consistent basis. Once management adds a couple more pieces, Babcock's ability will shine.

 

[Liferleafer]

LOL @ dominating the AHL as if that makes one a blue chipper. Kid couldn't stand out among his peers.

Honest question, how do you value a prospect if not by how he is playing in his current environment?

 

[Brock Radunske]

i like kapanen too..but like every team in the league looking for size at center, the habs finally have a tantalizing prospect they'll keep and develop

he'll be playing behind galchenyuk within two years

I like McCarron but I don't see his upside as top 6.
With his skillset, he projects to be a good 3c/4c if he sticks in the league. Kind of like a Brian Boyle type.
You'll likely still need a 2C once Pleks leaves in 1.5 years unless you can resign Radulov and move him to centre.