Player Discussion Max Pacioretty -- Part 5
- Thread starter Runner77
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Why wouldn't I ? They could have easily named who they wanted, it happens everywhere around the league, why would they have to lie about that ? Oh I know why, because it's Habs and Bergevin so obviously they are liars and they conspire in their corner to make the team worse.
Come on.
Like if they would go and tell the players ''Hey guys we will pick the next captain but when the media ask just say it was a player's vote'' ? Everybody would have known that it was picked by the management, players traded away would have said the truth a long time ago. You guys want to see a conspiracy everywhere when it's not the case.
Just because Pacioretty fell out of grace when Subban got traded away, everyone is on his back. It was already explained why Pacioretty was a good pick for the role of captain. The guy had the balls to say send me back to the AHL so I can play first line if you will use me in the bottom six, he never was shy to make bold comments when he thought he had to. Pacioretty spends a big part of his summer here and he is implicated in many great causes that touch thousands of people from Montreal. If he was picked by his teammates to be captain, I have no reason to doubt the fact that he showed the leadership needed and that the management is saying the truth. The moment he came back from the AHL and had that big season the year after I knew he was my pick to be captain at one point.
Now it's not because he was chosen by his teammates that he is a great captain, he may not have been the best pick but its says a lot and I'll tell you why. When everything goes well and the team is winning, everyone is a leader and everybody is friend with everybody. Everyone loves everyone, but when things go bad you start to see a different side of everybody (Subban saying that its not his job to score throwing his entire offense under the bus). Pacioretty may not have been able to rise to the occasion in those two difficult seasons, but I doubt anyone would have been able to other than Price. He does not possess that level of talent that can put him over the top on the ice. It's not Crosby or Ovechkin or Even McDavid where players could say it's ok he will save us. He didn't have the tools to turn things around. He didn't have enough firepower surrounding him to face those difficult moments. It's not fair to put the blame on him.
This team is Price's team. If Price is good, everyone is good. If he is in the right mindset, everybody will follow. You know it because of how everyone outside of Montreal was praising him. That he was the guy, the defense, the heart, the secret to the success of this team.
I don't believe Pacioretty was a bad pick. If everything goes well next year, everyone will be happy and it will show on the ice and the results will be there. No one will question his leadership.
BeliveauFan4ever
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- Apr 10, 2006
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Hmmm. A winger coming off a 17-goal season nets a return befitting a 70-point centre off a strong season.
Have my doubts.
You seem to forget that Plekanec, Pacioretty, Subban and Markov were veterans. You don't jump over your leadership group and give the A to someone else, that would have been bad. They all deserved the A over Gallagher. Markov and Plekanec gave everything they had to that team, Pacioretty was the best forward on the team and beloved by his teammates and Subban was the best defenseman and took a lot of place in the locker room. All logical options to receive the assistant role.
It took years for Gallagher to take his place in the locker room (with the departure of other players), he may not have been a logical leader like he is right now. And never should he have received the A in front of all these veteran by respect to what they all gave to the team over the years.
He looks miserable because the team is losing. Breaking news, nobody is happy to lose. Nobody wants to be eliminated and have a bad season like last year. He isn't having much fun on the ice, and you can see that in every player.
Yes give him the C and see and wait for him to fall out of grace like the captains before him. See the fans and the city turn against him and then blame the management for what they did.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
Yea he should have taken that and run. Cause he won't get better.
He didn't take it cause of ego cause he played all these years with a low contract and he wanted to finally break bank.
Adam Michaels
Registered User
Yea, I wouldn't put too much stock on those twitter accounts that do nothing but write about their sources told them this and their sources told them that.
As for this hypothetical trade, I would target Maatta instead of Simon.
Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
- Sep 17, 2013
- 8,888
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If he's still a Hab a week from now he will start the season with them, nothing ever happens from mid-July to October
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Can we have a rumors thread? Like somewhere that only tweets etc. Are listed with their contents so instead of reading discussion on the player itself, I'm just able to see whether or not there's been anything new to report vis a vis their status?
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Yeah but there are still a bit of moving parts in play. Karlsson, Patch, Panarin. This could not of been the worse time to trade Patch IMO. Tavares, Neal, JVR, Kovalchuk, Stastny as UFA's and teams trying to move Karlsson, Patch, Panarin, ROR in trades. Did I forget anybody?
When was the last off season where assets like this were available in UFA and in trades? This is not your typical summer. There was and still is way too much options for GM's to improve their roster and pass on Patch.
For better or worse this is the type of return I expect. We rarely see blue chip prospects moved and a player like Maatta is going nowhere in this type of deal. Not that Maatta is untouchable, but if he's traded, I feel it looks more like Johannson for Jones. I think Sprong is a possibility, but it's of my opinion that this happens at the deadline. A 1st and Sprong for Pacioretty and only if Sprong struggles to establish himself in his rookie campaign.
In the end I think we could do much worse than Brassard, a 1st, 2nd, and an average prospect. Brassard does a lot for us. He would allow Drouin to move back to the wing, which I think would be a good thing and he'd be our 1C. Lot of 5 on 5 and PP time. Brassard on the Habs would have a legitimate shot at 50+ points. Come deadline day, we could maybe leverage DB into another 1st round pick. I would prefer Aston Reese to Simon as the latter requires waivers and roster spots up front are going to be at a bit of a premium for us this season despite the averageness of our roster up front.
If at this time next summer we look back on the Pacioretty return and it's totaled up to be 2 first round picks, a 2nd round pick, and 2 average prospects I certainly won't be screaming from the hills. I worry we've over-hyped the Pacioretty return a bit. Look no further than the ROR trade. Obviously there were financial implications, but ROR is a center signed long-term and he returned a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick 3 years from now, a good but hardly blue chip prospect, and a couple of roster players.
That's why Patch should have been traded at the deadline when most of them wasn't on the market
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Agreed. But I'd love to know what the best offer was. At the last deadline and in the off season. It sure sounds like the price was set way to high in the last deadline though.
Ozmodiar
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- Oct 18, 2017
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Do folks really believe a player's value moves lockstep with the ebb and flow of their point totals?
Will Max's trade value really be much different if he comes out of the gate flying relative to his value now? I think market conditions are more of a factor in his valuation - how many wingers on trade / FA market, how many teams in playoff race at TDL, how many teams with cap space or who need a LW, ...
Scouts know what they're getting in Pacioretty. Elite scoring. Streaky, like most scorers. Approaching 30, so expect decline. Had no center support last season, should return to 30+ on a good team with a real center core.
When the free agency dust settles, MB has to hope there's still 2 or 3 teams who have cap space, a need on LW, the assets to give up, and a win-now mandate. If not, he's misjudged the market and shouldn't have inflated his price at the last TDL (ask of Trocheck, allegedly).
Son has told me that apparently the Habs have offered Pacioretty 6x8, anyone else hear this. Didn’t ask son where he got that from (he’s 18 so the dark web for all I know)
NobleSix
High Tech Low-Life.
Havent heard anything like that, but if its true then they better have a trade in place the second he puts pen to paper because if we get stuck with another shitty unmovable long term contract then you can kiss a ~5 year rebuild goodbye. It'll be more like 10 years if we can't get anything valuable for our core players like Price, Weber, and Pacioretty because of their albatross contracts.
Yeah my black market organ trade guy has dropped me some fine scoops these past few years.
bsl
Registered User
- Oct 9, 2009
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Then bergevin should have anticipated that and traded him last deadline. He’s awful at his job.
Censored Toad
Most Records Shattered as GM of the Habs!
- Aug 8, 2016
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3 scenarios play out with maxy the snowflake
1) We sign him and over pay for what he brings (8Million per year X 6-8)
2) We Trade him and get 1st rounder (at a minimum) and maybe some extras (prospects etc)
3) He goes to free agency and we lose him for nothing.
OF those three options, 2 is the best.
Why I don't like option 1)
Let me state I do not think we will be competing for a cup during maxes prime years which are going to be behind him in another season or two so I do not want to resign him.
2) as much as I want to get fair value for him... we are in a very weak position. As long as we aren't at a huge loss and are building for the rebuild I would trade him for that first rounder + some other picks/prospects that address holes and call it done. It is the best scenario given the situation.
Max knows he has the power in this situation and I'm sure he feels no love for the Org or Marc to do them any "favors"
Option 3 explains itself I think.
That is my opinion on the matter.
I am curious if option 3 ends up happening, how the media will react .... aka if a huge smear campaign begins for the former foxhole friend.
1) We sign him and over pay for what he brings (8Million per year X 6-8)
2) We Trade him and get 1st rounder (at a minimum) and maybe some extras (prospects etc)
3) He goes to free agency and we lose him for nothing.
OF those three options, 2 is the best.
Why I don't like option 1)
Let me state I do not think we will be competing for a cup during maxes prime years which are going to be behind him in another season or two so I do not want to resign him.
2) as much as I want to get fair value for him... we are in a very weak position. As long as we aren't at a huge loss and are building for the rebuild I would trade him for that first rounder + some other picks/prospects that address holes and call it done. It is the best scenario given the situation.
Max knows he has the power in this situation and I'm sure he feels no love for the Org or Marc to do them any "favors"
Option 3 explains itself I think.
That is my opinion on the matter.
I am curious if option 3 ends up happening, how the media will react .... aka if a huge smear campaign begins for the former foxhole friend.
JohnLennon
Registered User
- Mar 26, 2011
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Too bad he receives such misplaced hatred from so many people in here. Max, along with being one of the league's best goalscorers without ever having had a legitimate center, also plays solid two-way hockey and is proud to wear the CH and the C. He was chosen by the players to be captain for a reason. Really unfortunate how people's frustration with other things is often being taken out on a player who developed and flourished within the organisation, carrying our offence for half a decade, and represents the team honourably and proudly.
Cheers to Max, I'd be glad if he stuck around longer term if we can't find reasonable return for him via trade, but understand moving him given the team's current predicament.
And to those of you who choose to spew nothing but hatred for the captain of our team, and most other things related to the Habs, I really urge you to re-think how you spread your meaningless negativity and how it affects the culture on our Habs forum. Anger is the easiest way to unite people, but creates so much tension and makes it really unpleasant to want to visit the site. Though I do understand, times are hard. There's reason for hope nonetheless, and it would likely be more constructive to focus on that instead.
Cheers to Max, I'd be glad if he stuck around longer term if we can't find reasonable return for him via trade, but understand moving him given the team's current predicament.
And to those of you who choose to spew nothing but hatred for the captain of our team, and most other things related to the Habs, I really urge you to re-think how you spread your meaningless negativity and how it affects the culture on our Habs forum. Anger is the easiest way to unite people, but creates so much tension and makes it really unpleasant to want to visit the site. Though I do understand, times are hard. There's reason for hope nonetheless, and it would likely be more constructive to focus on that instead.
sampollock
Registered User
The way things are going, he is staying and probably signs an extension in Montreal for 6 years 8 million cap hit.
SOLR
Registered User
It will happen after Karlsson, maybe there is an interaction between the teams on this.
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