Max Domi

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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That's a great article by the way.

I think how a player performs in goals for % at 5v5 relative to his teammates is a super important stat. It is as close as a stat gets to being the results, and you can then use the various underlying stats to figure out if a guy is just getting lucky or whatnot.

+/- would be an excellent stat if PP, PK & empty net situations were simply totally omitted from the stat.

Now you can compare +/- stats only for players that have very similar TOI distribution of ES/PP/PK. And as always with team stats, direct comparisons for players on different teams are not very helpful. "Relative 5-on-5 goal differential" should be pretty good comparison, just like Corsi Rel. would be if the goal of the game was about just getting a lot of Corsi events for, which it isn't.

5v5 +/- is a stat I use all the time, I actually forget sometimes that a lot of lay people still use the traditional plus-minus. I think we'll see a switch to a 5v5 or ES +/- soon enough.

I use +/- in a general way. The further away from even in the minus direction will make me look at that player closer to see if it is his play that is the cause, or is it the lines and or situations they wind up in. Same for the plus side.

I have been trying to learn the advanced side of stats, but I admit, I have a hard time keeping things straight.

The intuition behind +/- is great, but a quick improvement you can make is to use 5v5 +/- or 5v5 GF% instead of the traditional plus-minus. You can compare the 5v5 GF% to the traditional plus minus and see how they differ.

For the Jackets this year the results aren't much different for most players. Domi is dead last in both. But you can also sometimes have cases where guys are on the ice for a bunch of empty net goals against, or shorthanded goals, and the next thing you know they're a minus player despite doing okay at 5v5.
 

ViD

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I would pair Domi and some assets to get another offensive player, even if it means taking a little bit more salary.
 

puckie

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I agree +/- does not tell the complete story, but at +20 you are not stinking up the ice. If you are comparing two players one +3 and the other +10, things can help skew it. It also depends on who they are playing with. Suzuki has benefitted greatly by playing with Anderson and Drouin this year.

If he was with Leki and Armia he would have different stats. I like both players but the struggle to finish.
 

DarkandStormy

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Remember when we reportedly turned down an Anderson for Trocheck trade?

This season:
Vincent Trocheck has posted 10-7-17, +1 in 19 games, $4.75m cap hit this season and next (then UFA)
Josh Anderson has posted 9-3-12, +1 in 19 games, $5.5m cap hit through the '26-'27 season
Max Domi has posted 3-4-7, -11 in 23 games, $5.3m cap this season and next (then UFA)
 
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CBJWerenski8

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Wait so they wanted Anderson for Trocheck but then accepted Jack shit for him later?

Something isn’t adding up. I wouldn’t have done that deal back then either. But then again I wouldn’t have done Domi for Anderson either so here we are
 

Viqsi

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Remember when we reportedly turned down an Anderson for Trocheck trade?

This season:
Vincent Trocheck has posted 10-7-17, +1 in 19 games, $4.75m cap hit this season and next (then UFA)
Josh Anderson has posted 9-3-12, +1 in 19 games, $5.5m cap hit through the '26-'27 season
Max Domi has posted 3-4-7, -11 in 23 games, $5.3m cap this season and next (then UFA)

And the Vincent Trocheck that was being offered at the time was in a multiyear long slump so g-dawful it makes current Domi look good.

Honest to G-d this kind of nonsense is so annoyingly predictable it makes my teeth hurt.
 
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DarkandStormy

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Wait so they wanted Anderson for Trocheck but then accepted Jack shit for him later?

Something isn’t adding up. I wouldn’t have done that deal back then either. But then again I wouldn’t have done Domi for Anderson either so here we are

Confirmed Trade: - [CAR/FLA] Vincent Trocheck for Erik Haula, Lucas Wallmark, Chase Priskie, and Eetu Luostarinen

Pretty 50/50 split on reactions regarding who "won" the trade. FLA board seemed pretty happy with it at the time (of course, Wallmark and Haula didn't stay with them, so who knows now).

And the Vincent Trocheck that was being offered at the time was in a multiyear long slump so g-dawful it makes current Domi look good.

Honest to G-d this kind of nonsense is so annoyingly predictable it makes my teeth hurt.

Trocheck:
upload_2021-3-1_11-7-29.png


Domi:
upload_2021-3-1_11-7-52.png


Trocheck's "slump" or whatever in '19-'20 at the time was better than Domi's '19-'20 season with Montreal. To say nothing of the fact that Trocheck had a proven track record at center and was/is actually a very positive FO guy for those who care about FOs.
 
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Double-Shift Lasse

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This is someone saying now that this trade was proposed in the past and declined by the CBJ? I'd like to see reporting of this that is actually from that time.

I have long coveted Trocheck in Columbus. So I went looking through my past posts to see if I had offered an opinion on the possibility of VT for Josh and I couldn't find anything. Even during his slump, I'd have made a good offer (although not Zach Werenski, which was discussed by Panthers fans at the time).

But it's hard to know if I have a consistent opinion on something when I don't even know that it was a thing when it was supposed to have been a thing.
 

majormajor

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Wait so they wanted Anderson for Trocheck but then accepted Jack shit for him later?

Something isn’t adding up. I wouldn’t have done that deal back then either. But then again I wouldn’t have done Domi for Anderson either so here we are

Florida was nervous about Trocheck's injuries and wanted to get rid of his contract. They asked for a lot around the league, didn't get it because everyone was nervous about Trocheck's injuries, and Florida had to settle for scraps. A year later Trocheck is playing great and everyone has egg on their face. What doesn't add up?

This is someone saying now that this trade was proposed in the past and declined by the CBJ? I'd like to see reporting of this that is actually from that time.

That reporting is from a year ago.
 
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CBJWerenski8

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Florida was nervous about Trocheck's injuries and wanted to get rid of his contract. They asked for a lot around the league, didn't get it because everyone was nervous about Trocheck's injuries, and Florida had to settle for scraps. A year later Trocheck is playing great and everyone has egg on their face. What doesn't add up?



That reporting is from a year ago.

That if Florida wanted to give away Trocheck for free why we didn’t re-engage with them.
 

majormajor

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That if Florida wanted to give away Trocheck for free why we didn’t re-engage with them.

We don't know that Jarmo didn't. Often in those trades the selling GM will make a final pass around the suitors, so I'd bet there was a convo in between the Anderson proposal and the final deal. Although it could be something like the Hamilton to Calgary trade where GMs around the league were like "why didn't he call me, I would have topped that!".

Florida got more than nothing from Carolina. Perhaps they expected more from Haula and Wallmark. Luostarinen is a good prospect who has been Florida's 3C this year, and is looking promising. Maybe they liked that return and went to Jarmo to see if he could top it, and said "we're about to finalize a deal, any chance you could put Texier on the table?" "No? Okay."
 
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puckie

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Here is Domi in 2018-2019. Look at the energy, speed, and the fun he seems to be having. Looks like a different player than now. Alien abduction?
 
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KJ Dangler

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Here is Domi in 2018-2019. Look at the energy, speed, and the fun he seems to be having. Looks like a different player than now. Alien abduction?

This was at center as well.. it’s why no way , no how am I trading Domi until I see him with the next coach. The mind is a powerful thing .. I was listening to James Lauranitis this morning , he played hockey in school , but was known for his NFL career , he said he would see players with all the talent in the world get screamed at by their coach and some guys would respond , others would shut down . Torts one size approach really appeals to the Folignos , Jenners , look what type of player they are though.. guys that don’t have the best skill , but have gotten where they are thru hard work, and discipline . Laine has never had to have they approach .. Domi has never had to have that approach . There’s this old saying you attract more flies with honey , than you do with Vinegar
 

CBJWerenski8

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A lot of those clips is him finishing off of other players putting him in position to do well or soft goals. And this is supposed to be the best he can look, it is a highlight video after all.
 
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CoachWithNoTeam

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I actually think he’s starting to turn the corner but has had a little bit of bad puck luck the last couple games. I would not be surprised to see him get hot and go on a little scoring run here. It may be as simple as him moving his legs more but he’s starting to look more like his old self to me. His confidence is probably at an all time low and he’s a streaky player, so I think if he can break the seal the offense will start coming. I don’t think he looks a whole lot different than Cam does in his down times, we just haven’t really seen what he can bring when he’s going yet. I don’t really think he can possibly play worse than he has so far, and in a weird way that makes me optimistic.
 

puckie

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Patrick Laine has 0 points in the last 6 games. I am not sure if the players or the coaching and his system. Something is not working.
 
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HockeyJunkie87

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I honestly thought Domi would be putting up higher points with the CBJ . He was a fan favorite a couple of seasons ago in Montreal .
I’m the kind of guy , like a lot of you , that watches every game their team plays , in my case that’s the Habs . So maybe I can offer some insight on Max Domi .

I think a lot of this players problem unfortunately is between his ears . Does he have the skills , yes . Does he have the work ethic , yes.

But he seems to get in a funk sometimes , this happened in Montreal last season as well , and at a terrible time , especially with the emergence of Nick Suzuki and Jasperi Kotkaniemi playing themselves onto the team and securing center positions . At this point Phil Danault was already a staple center for the Habs as well with great chemistry with Gallagher and Tatar , which meant Max was kinda left on the wing, and bouncing around until eventually finding his way on the 4th line .

what does this all mean , you may ask ?

comparing the habs and blue jackets right now , is apples and oranges . The blue jackets could really use a top center and apparently are actively seeking one since trading PLD. I haven’t watched a whole lot of blue jackets hockey this season , but I do know he has been on the 4th line lately , and the blue jackets should be playing better than they have , as a group .

I think a lot of the problem is coaching . Max has yet again lost his confidence and he needs a spark . Whether that’s playing him with trust , giving him a shot on the top line with good teammates again , I’m not 100% sure , but I think this could be the key . When he is on his game , he is a game changer and a star . Honestly ... the first year he was a Hab , he was a fan favourite . He was given lots of opportunities and once he started playing well , that was it , he caught fire .

anyway , I hope this post kinda helps a little . I hope he snaps out of his funk , and I hope if coaching is the problem here, Torts gets dealt with .
 

KJ Dangler

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I honestly thought Domi would be putting up higher points with the CBJ . He was a fan favorite a couple of seasons ago in Montreal .
I’m the kind of guy , like a lot of you , that watches every game their team plays , in my case that’s the Habs . So maybe I can offer some insight on Max Domi .

I think a lot of this players problem unfortunately is between his ears . Does he have the skills , yes . Does he have the work ethic , yes.

But he seems to get in a funk sometimes , this happened in Montreal last season as well , and at a terrible time , especially with the emergence of Nick Suzuki and Jasperi Kotkaniemi playing themselves onto the team and securing center positions . At this point Phil Danault was already a staple center for the Habs as well with great chemistry with Gallagher and Tatar , which meant Max was kinda left on the wing, and bouncing around until eventually finding his way on the 4th line .

what does this all mean , you may ask ?

comparing the habs and blue jackets right now , is apples and oranges . The blue jackets could really use a top center and apparently are actively seeking one since trading PLD. I haven’t watched a whole lot of blue jackets hockey this season , but I do know he has been on the 4th line lately , and the blue jackets should be playing better than they have , as a group .

I think a lot of the problem is coaching . Max has yet again lost his confidence and he needs a spark . Whether that’s playing him with trust , giving him a shot on the top line with good teammates again , I’m not 100% sure , but I think this could be the key . When he is on his game , he is a game changer and a star . Honestly ... the first year he was a Hab , he was a fan favourite . He was given lots of opportunities and once he started playing well , that was it , he caught fire .

anyway , I hope this post kinda helps a little . I hope he snaps out of his funk , and I hope if coaching is the problem here, Torts gets dealt with .
No doubt the issue is between his ears , but there is a system issue at play here as well . Domi is pointless in 8 games , Laine pointless in 6 games . Foligno has 2 points in 8 games , Texier has like 2 points in last 12 games ... Torts has never really had an offensive system here , other than trying to create turnovers on the forecheck . That works when you have high motor grinder types . Torts admits this roster is in between grinder and skill and he’s struggling with knowing how to coach that.

What you said about Domi though , was echoed by Foligno yesterday . He said max has a ton of talent , it’s in his head , but it’s not lack of effort , or attitude , he works his butt off according to Foligno. Good news for Max is the cbj will have a new coach , worse case by next season
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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I honestly thought Domi would be putting up higher points with the CBJ . He was a fan favorite a couple of seasons ago in Montreal .
I’m the kind of guy , like a lot of you , that watches every game their team plays , in my case that’s the Habs . So maybe I can offer some insight on Max Domi .

I think a lot of this players problem unfortunately is between his ears . Does he have the skills , yes . Does he have the work ethic , yes.

But he seems to get in a funk sometimes , this happened in Montreal last season as well , and at a terrible time , especially with the emergence of Nick Suzuki and Jasperi Kotkaniemi playing themselves onto the team and securing center positions . At this point Phil Danault was already a staple center for the Habs as well with great chemistry with Gallagher and Tatar , which meant Max was kinda left on the wing, and bouncing around until eventually finding his way on the 4th line .

what does this all mean , you may ask ?

comparing the habs and blue jackets right now , is apples and oranges . The blue jackets could really use a top center and apparently are actively seeking one since trading PLD. I haven’t watched a whole lot of blue jackets hockey this season , but I do know he has been on the 4th line lately , and the blue jackets should be playing better than they have , as a group .

I think a lot of the problem is coaching . Max has yet again lost his confidence and he needs a spark . Whether that’s playing him with trust , giving him a shot on the top line with good teammates again , I’m not 100% sure , but I think this could be the key . When he is on his game , he is a game changer and a star . Honestly ... the first year he was a Hab , he was a fan favourite . He was given lots of opportunities and once he started playing well , that was it , he caught fire .

anyway , I hope this post kinda helps a little . I hope he snaps out of his funk , and I hope if coaching is the problem here, Torts gets dealt with .

We're way past the point with Domi of even talking about chemistry or coaching. There is a baseline expectation of what an NHL player can do even if he's got a shitty coach and bad linemates. And Domi isn't playing at that baseline. Yes it's between his ears. Personally I don't want to keep a player who needs months at a time to fix his issues. This isn't going to be the last time in his career where he doesn't have the perfect situation around him.
 
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Monstershockey

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You can look at Domi's numbers from Montreal. There is a clear line where his struggles started. His first 122 games he was a .8 ppg player. He had 30 points in his first 40 games last season. From that point on his production fell by half, the last 31 games, plus the 10 playoff games. I agree with what has been said about it being mental. He has to work himself out of it.
 

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