I'm not sure what's worse. When the Leafs sucked forever and you had to read their obnoxious fanboys tell you how great they were or now that they actually have a good team and you have read their obnoxious fanboys enlarge their font 5x and tell you how great they are...
Matthews vs. Eichel
- Thread starter Holymakinaw
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Pretty sure I said playing with W. Nylander (but keep pointing out HYman and Brown, two guys he wont even be with this year in all likelyhood) and that's what this Poll is asking about. THIS YEAR.
Not sure what this "AMPLE" opportunity you keep speaking of is? Yeah, Sign me up to play on the lowest scoring team with no star line-mates, (W, Nylander) and in 2 of my first 3 years allow me to suffer the post-effects of a high ankle sprain while I'm at it. Again, even then the point difference of PPG (Which you seem more then obsessed with) is a matter of a couple points both the last two years. Why even brag about a couple of points, I have no idea.
If you think this "MY teammates" is just an excuse then why do you think no one on the Hurricanes, Canucks, Canadiens, Rangers, Red Wings (I could go on) don't hit PPG? Because when you are one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, It's rather difficult and IT MATTERS who your surrounded by. Of course Toronto hasn't had to deal with this in AM's tenure. He's always had teammates who produce in large numbers like JVR, Kadri, Marner, NYlander, variety. This isn't Basketball, star forwards in hockey play 1/3rd of a game. That means you need your team to do the work 2/3rds of the time. It's the fact Eichel has produced so well in spite of all these struggles that people value him high. Or talk about his offensive ceiling being higher, not just based on scouting, but living up to the hype and seeing how he would produce in a healthy season with a better team around him. In addition to his natural skill-set.
You're clearly not paying attention to anything that's being said. But I'm suddenly obligated to tell you why one is a "WAY WORSE goal scorer"? Where should I begin? I don't consider scoring 25 and 32 in a difference of 5 games last season being way worse, but Matthews is a better sniper, and is on a much better team, plain and simple. That was rather easy. You don't want to get it, I came back into this thread today thinking maybe you'd offer up something decent but your not listening so we're done. Making your letters size 50 and putting it bold screams insecurity too. You won't find me putting "MATTHEWS HAS NEVER Hit 30 ASSISTS" EVER, Eichel has EVERY YEAR DESPITE HIS LOW SCORING TEAMS in giant size 50 letters.
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Lots of ways to look at this, but if you want to quantify it it seems Matthews should have more points based on their body of work.
You can keep writing novellas, nobody is convinced by them.
Still waiting for your evidence of Eichel being equal to Matthews, apparently TOI and PP time don't mean much, but all of a sudden having one better teammate on his line makes the world of difference.
Funny how playing for nearly 50% of his rookie year with 3rd and 4th liners like Brown and Hyman didn't stop Matthews from putting up 40, but Eichel can't even put up ppg in 3 years despite having more TOI and PP time.
Stephen
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I think it will be somewhat close, but the difference is Eichel is going to score a lot of empty calorie points, like pile on a 2 G 2 A night when the Sabres win 7-1, or have 2 assists in a 6-2 loss, whereas you'll see Matthews score a bunch of game tying or winning goals in usual fashion.
Probably Matthewx for the simple reason that Eichel is the focus in Buffalo he's the guy you key on.
You can't key on Matthewx because if you do then Tavares will make you pay, not to mention Kadri.
Having Tavares means Matthewx gets at least SOME secondary defensive matchups which is a luxury Eichel won't get.
Hence as long as he's healthy it's probably Matthewx
You can't key on Matthewx because if you do then Tavares will make you pay, not to mention Kadri.
Having Tavares means Matthewx gets at least SOME secondary defensive matchups which is a luxury Eichel won't get.
Hence as long as he's healthy it's probably Matthewx
Dude you keep asking for reasons, I keep telling you them, then you reply with oh those two three paragraphs are too long. I don't need to convince anybody of anything they don't want to know. I told you even already about the TOI, issue above. You also reference PP time even though 44 of his 64 pts in those 67 games came at even strength. A large number of his assists are primary too, over half. I would imagine Matthews would have more PP time if he was more effective in that position?
You have repeated THREE times now in 3 different posts that EIchel hasn't gone PPG and I KEEP responding telling you he went 4pts then 3 pts off doing so despite having a nagging injury in 2 of the 3, and playing for the lowest scoring team in the league. Vastly different that is!
You're literally "BRAGGING" about the difference of a few points and its ridiculous. Keep talking about Hyman and Brown, neither of whom he should play with this year when I've been pointing out EIchel hasn't had a W. Nylander to play with. I wonder why you ignore him? Hmm...It's comical you keep saying Eichel has AMPLE opportunity to hit PPG on BUFFALO because he plays two minutes more. If it were that easy everyone would do it. Funny thing is, no one here is even bashing Matthews. Your not getting anywhere saying the same "Eichel hasnt hit PPG" no matter what size you make it, or how many times you repeat it. 121 pts in his last 128 games looks pretty close to PPG to me? So your bragging about....7 pts in a two year stretch? When Matthews has hit PPG once? Yet EIchel has come a mere 7 pts (4 pts in 17', then 3 pts in 18' last year) short of doing it twice. Compelling argument,
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To pcruz above, Okposo isn't really any threat and may be replaced by Tage Thompson as early as week or two into the year. He used to be and he can be somewhat dangerous at times but not to the point teams would hem in on him and make him a primary focus.
Skinner is projected to be with Eichel so even if teams do focus on one, it will directly effect the other (or should as a lot of games go on) points wise. It's possible Sheary plays with Eichel and Reinhart though and Skinner could be with Mittlestadt or Bergulnd and Okposo.
He's not saying (at least I don't think) LeafFanforLife23 that teams wont pay attention to those others, he just meant there not going to be going over tape or matching there best defenders against them on purpose every shift like they would Eichel.
Barzal is going to get this same treatment now that he's the GUY and we'll see how he reacts to it, I know Barzal was not a secret anymore by X-Mas but I just mean for a whole season, and even when he was a focus there was always still JT to worry about when playing NYI.
This is a good post. I like your reasons. Also why I was hesitant to say Eichel depending on Babcock's choice of ice-time.
Skinner is projected to be with Eichel so even if teams do focus on one, it will directly effect the other (or should as a lot of games go on) points wise. It's possible Sheary plays with Eichel and Reinhart though and Skinner could be with Mittlestadt or Bergulnd and Okposo.
He's not saying (at least I don't think) LeafFanforLife23 that teams wont pay attention to those others, he just meant there not going to be going over tape or matching there best defenders against them on purpose every shift like they would Eichel.
Barzal is going to get this same treatment now that he's the GUY and we'll see how he reacts to it, I know Barzal was not a secret anymore by X-Mas but I just mean for a whole season, and even when he was a focus there was always still JT to worry about when playing NYI.
This is a good post. I like your reasons. Also why I was hesitant to say Eichel depending on Babcock's choice of ice-time.
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I do a box one, they just give you five-six players and you just do that 30 times. Eichel was in a box with Scheifele, Matthews, Forsberg, Getzlaf and Bergeron. Tavares was in the first one with McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, Kucherov and someone else. It's tough to really know. Apart of me wanted to pick Sheifele regardless and I think Pastrnak is going to have a monster season so this one is a pretty tough call. (Say that due to Pastrnak playing with Bergeron of course)
tsujimoto74
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It's a few points difference:
2nd season with less TOI and PP TOI v 3rd season with more TOI and PP TOI
My argument=
Compare all seasons, upside, accolades received and look at all stats
Your argument=
Ignore TOI, PP TOI, teammates during rookie year, pts/60 and cling onto mediocre teammates (as if Kane, O'Rielly, Risto and Reinhart are complete trash now)
One of us is involved in making real arguments, the other one is involved in writing novellas without substantial points. Gamebreakers produce and Matthews produced despite being anchored to guys like Hyman and Brown his first year, Eichel has not produced on the same level despite having plenty of ice time, pp ice time and decent teammates.
You can keep making excuses, I'll look at the results and let them speak for themselves and yeah not hitting 30 goals is pretty substantial considering Matthews hit 40 in his first year, that means in YEAR ONE, he outproduced Eichel by at least 25% in the goal scoring department.
/\ That's the bottom line, inb4 teammates caused Jack to get clowned on in every department.
The Winter Soldier
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- Apr 4, 2011
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Matthews is still in a better position to succeed this year, but Eichel has the best cast of players surrounding him since he came into the league so I am going to say Eichel. I think assists will play a big role in this, and I think Eichel's assists to goals ratio will give him the advantage here. But it will be close IMO.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
Once he gets signed I think Matthews still has the better line with Marleau and Nylander. If you don't include his line having Tavares and Marner on the other line should give Matthews line the easier matchups, so he will produce even more goals and assists. Plus the power play combination of Matthews, Tavares and Marner is going to be lethal.
I do the same.
Thankfully I have McDavid, Matthews, Eichel/Kessel, Sheiffele/Marner in 4 different player groups.
I’m unsure between Phil and Jack. I’ve been a staunch Phil guy, but I see Eichel having a better season this year.
BAM
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Isaac Nootin
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Lots of ways to look at this, but if you want to quantify it it seems Matthews should have more points based on their body of work.
Yikes, not even an argument for Eichel.
Solid post, real objective. Eichel's points dont count as much as Matthew's now because Matthews doesnt besmirch himself with multi goal games or even bother to score if the game cant be won.
Halla
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https://www.tsn.ca/mcdavid-continues-reign-atop-tsn-s-top-50-player-ranking-1.1180403
Matthews 8th best player, EIchel 33rd.
Matthews is a tier above. this poll shouldnt be this close. If it was Schiefele (11th) vs Eichel, Schiefele would have 80% votes. check out the eichel votes and iots a combo of sabres,oilers and jets fans. no surprise there
Matthews 8th best player, EIchel 33rd.
Matthews is a tier above. this poll shouldnt be this close. If it was Schiefele (11th) vs Eichel, Schiefele would have 80% votes. check out the eichel votes and iots a combo of sabres,oilers and jets fans. no surprise there
Halla
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It's a few points difference:
2nd season with less TOI and PP TOI v 3rd season with more TOI and PP TOI
My argument=
Compare all seasons, upside, accolades received and look at all stats
Your argument=
Ignore TOI, PP TOI, teammates during rookie year, pts/60 and cling onto mediocre teammates (as if Kane, O'Rielly, Risto and Reinhart are complete trash now)
One of us is involved in making real arguments, the other one is involved in writing novellas without substantial points. Gamebreakers produce and Matthews produced despite being anchored to guys like Hyman and Brown his first year, Eichel has not produced on the same level despite having plenty of ice time, pp ice time and decent teammates.
You can keep making excuses, I'll look at the results and let them speak for themselves and yeah not hitting 30 goals is pretty substantial considering Matthews hit 40 in his first year, that means in YEAR ONE, he outproduced Eichel by at least 25% in the goal scoring department.
/\ That's the bottom line, inb4 teammates caused Jack to get clowned on in every department.
this really hurts the "matthews woulda went 3rd had he been born 2 weeks earlier" crowd
until Eichel gets 35-40g, and is a PPG+ player while leading his team to the playoffs, he wont be on the same tier as Matthews. make all the excuses you want, but the kid is getting 20min and loads of PP time (on a PP that was very,very good) so the whole linemates thing doesnt stick.
Isaac Nootin
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- Sep 28, 2017
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Well this poll is strictly points, so it's somewhat arguable. Especially when one player is spoon fed icetime and favorable zone starts.
If it were who is the better all around player, it would turn out to be one of those AINEC polls.
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