TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
So what you're saying is that Matthews was 9 seconds per game away from having the most PPTOI/GP, but was notably inferior to many of his teammates in PPP/60?
Matthews vs. Eichel
- Thread starter Holymakinaw
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So what you're saying is that Matthews was 9 seconds per game away from having the most PPTOI/GP, but was notably inferior to many of his teammates in PPP/60?
Because it's the latest proof that Matthews is on another level.
Eichel hasn't even scored 30 goals or gone ppg in 3 years and he's supposed to be better than Matthews? LOL, NO CHANCE.
Aladyyn
they praying for the death of a rockstar
Not a very convincing argument you have here considering:
You're saying people are claiming he's better then Matthews when no one has. You also claim he's on another level. Sure, he may not of hit 30G matching up against the league's best checkers/defenders (on its lowest scoring team) but he hasn't scored fewer then 24 either, with two of his three seasons were shortened by significant injury.
Your bragging about PPG when Matthews has done it only once in an injury shortened season. (Not when counting playoffs though) meanwhile Eichel came 4 pts, then 3 pts shy of doing it in the last two seasons that were also shortened by injury. So a matter of a few pts is worth bragging about? That's kind of odd. Just saying. If I was going to try and convince people "My teams star" was in a different realm then some else I wouldn't start by bragging about something where the difference was peanuts.
But why stop at goals? If one was being objective rather then biased you could also claim Eichel has hit 30 assists in every season he's ever played, 1 shy of 40 in just 67 games last year, while Matthews hasn't done it once ever in his career. It's hard to put up 39 in 67 but doing that on a team that scored 198 goals is truly exceptional. If it were easy Auston would of done it on a top 5 scoring team, maybe once?
Could it be you just don't watch or like Eichel so you just won't want to look at these facts?
PPG since Matthews entered the league.
JE 0.94
AM 0.88 PPG
"ANOTHER LEVEL."
I know right? Why use this pre-season game when there's been nearly a dozen other games that mattered head to head. In this one, Matthews had better "Scoring chances", but it's funny to even reference this game because Eichel was doing something well offensively, almost every time I saw him out there. Skinner was the lone Sabres star because scoring that tap in goal looked extremely difficult. I bet you can guess who the first star of this game was? Not that stars mean much in the pre-season but it supports the argument made.
I almost can't blame some of these fans. If their not independent thinkers anyway. The portrayal of both men on Canadian media is VASTLY different. One is portrayed as a god among the gods and every shift he has he will do something incredible based on one of his ELITE skill-sets, the other wont get mentioned ever unless it's "Well he makes X amount of money he should be good". (Contract hasn't even kicked in yet but alright..)
I almost GET IT though. This outlook some fans have. Not sure if you watch on Sportsnet or MSG Snippit with were you live but listening to the Pro-Leafs Greg Millen and the like is comical. I can put up with the praise about Auston cause its mostly true.
Auston makes a decent move past the blue line, does his pull and drag shot. (Not a toe-drag or anything spectacular but a nice shot.) Millen on the replay "And LOOK at the skill here by Matthews, lets this one go, and OH Wow...look at the skill-level on that release, just WOW."
Then
"One thing we don't talk about enough with Matthews is his ability to take his speed to another level, like all the great stars in this league." (When Eichel can do this too and even faster, and even did just before this shift) Now that statement is FINE by itself, it's true and he doesen't have to say EIchel is fast. Not everything is comparison. HOWEVER.... he said this right before this gem.
"(Camera shows Eichel on the bench) ...Yeaaah, Jack Eichel, you know he's going to have to be better then just "pretty good" if he wants the Sabres to have any success this year. He needs to be a star for this team." See again, this isn't wrong. But you'd think Eichel a guy who has actually averaged more points per game then Matthews since the time he (Auston) entered the league has been better then just "pretty good"? Some fans hear this and they'll treat this like gospel, especially since it's what they want to believe.
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Halla
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just gonna ignore matthews getting onto a PP unit with tavares,marner,kadri and rielly then?
using PDO to act like Matthews hasnt been the most lethal ES scorer since he entered the league is silly
Ironic.
Because if that actually happened and these two guys switched teams, Eichel would be the one hailed as the greatest thing since sliced-bread and Matthews would only be supported by Sabres fans who would be the only ones watching him, as he'd get no national spotlight that Matthews gets,
Matthews has a single point and was the headline on Saturday Night, the same night EIchel had 5 pts against the Oilers. The Headline was "Reinhart' scores winner over Edmonton on about the 11th news headline down the page. I get why this happens, the almighty dollar, every major news outlet is in Toronto, high population, etc. He also came in the league with a perfect storm (right after a long down period) with a great supporting cast (Andersen, Nylander, Marner) but the whole 40 goals and 4 goals in 1st game, Won people over and first impressions are strong. Auston gets so much love its laughable you think that you can play the victim role here.
Its things like this that give Matthews the significant advantage in.... Hype and Praise. (Edit- I Pointed this out to distinguish the difference between Hype and Praise as a Maple Leaf in difference to that of a Buffalo Sabre...."NOT" to say Matthews why all hype and praise.)
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Halla
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and ya know, getting 40g, winning the calder, leading his team to the playoff both years, being 1st in the league in ES goals since he came in (in 20 less games than Mcdavid)
but yeah, its all hype.
Eichel needs to get more than 25g to give matthews a real run. matthews has more g in 2 years than eichel does in 3 ....
Never said it was all hype. Said he gets a lot of hype because you told me if Matthews was a Sabre he'd be getting more praise. That's honestly so far from the truth I wouldn't know how to begin to tell you why. It'd take all day.
But do you really feel obligated to point out "he's such a great even strength scorer?"" Do you honestly feel there's ANYONE on here that doesen't already know that stuff? No one is bashing Matthews here. There's just Leaf Fans in some SERIOUS denial thinking Eichel isn't in his league. Just look at the fact alone your creditting Matthews with "leading his team to the playoffs" just shows how much (OVERHYPING) there actually is going on regarding Matthews as a Leaf. Your proving my point.
Because a soon to be hall of fame, olympic gold medal, stanley cup winning coach, adding a top ten starting goalie (maybe top 5), Mitch Marner (WHO SOME LEAF FANS IN THIS THREAD deem better then Eichel) Nylander ALL in the same YEAR (as well as a better supporting cast) didn't help Matthews "lead" his team to 16th in the league right? Are you even aware that Buffalo was dead last before Eichel arrived and the next year they finished 22nd? Not as good as 16th but he didn't have that help AM had. A difference of 6 whole spots. Buffalo has fallen back in the last couple years due to a plethora of reasons, the least of which is a guy who had 121 pts in 128 games during those two INJURY shortened seasons.
My answer as probably the biggest Eichel supporter to this question wasn't even EICHEL easily. It was "depends on how much ice time" is spread out with Tavares and Kadri. And because of that and due to the additions of Dahlin, the likes of Reinhart-Skinner being added to Eichel's line, full time then probably Eichel.
Regardless this stuff will never sink in, I don't care if it does because quite frankly...most of you don't really want it too. I'm out, people have heard this too many times. And if nothings changed before, it sure wont now.
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He might be, but that doesn't change the fact that he won't continue to score at the rate he did last year unless he improves as a player and generates more chances, because his numbers were unsustainable. That's the point in looking at these things.
If Buffalo can be decent team instead of a tire fire, I think Eichel has a better chance. I like Matthews more as a player, but Eichel will likely have more minutes and opportunity, and he's more of a puck carrier/playmaker than Matthews, which tends to benefit point totals more than goal scorers
AustonsNostrils
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Eichel's more talented by a shade, Matthews is more of a competitor. Matthews is a plow horse, Eichel's a show pony.
Hoping with maturity Eichel gives his all every shift all over the ice, he's not there yet, Matthews is.
Hoping with maturity Eichel gives his all every shift all over the ice, he's not there yet, Matthews is.
If people want to talk about Matthews PDO at ES being unsustainable, they also need to look at his PP oiSH%. Yes, 12% at ES is probably unsustainable. But his PP oiSH% was unsustainably low! His 12.7% was actually the worst out of any Leafs PP regulars. The Leafs had a PP shooting percentage of 14.36% (9th in the league) and I don't think anyone expects Matthews to be a below average PP shooter. He had an xGF of 18.36 and actual GF of 16, he's due for a huge PP improvement. Considering that he's probably going to be on a more potent unit this year, his PP production is due for a rise that will more than account for any ES oiSH% fall-off.
Here are some other notable players and their PP oiSH%
Boeser - 16.57
Laine - 16.73
Marner - 15.35
Kucherov - 16.2
Hall - 19.13
Matthews PP production last year was unsustainably low. It will very likely improve. Matthews ES production last year was unsustainably high. It will likely go down.
Here are some other notable players and their PP oiSH%
Boeser - 16.57
Laine - 16.73
Marner - 15.35
Kucherov - 16.2
Hall - 19.13
Matthews PP production last year was unsustainably low. It will very likely improve. Matthews ES production last year was unsustainably high. It will likely go down.
According to you.
Ironic because apparently the Leafs chased out a future HOF in Kessel, but 28 goal and 60 point Jack would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Get back to me when Eichel hits 30 goals or goes PPG, something Matthews did in his 2nd year and something Eichel hasn't done in 3 despite having ample opportunity.
Solely that he was on the 2nd power play unit and that somehow, the 2 power play units shared the time rather evenly.
Whereas most teams have a power play unit with their best offensive players that's on the ice for 2/3 - 3/4 of the time.
Matthews also didn't get chances to play on 2 man advantages due to being on the secondary power play, even on prolonged 5 on 3 situations.
That changes this year. Not only will he be on the top power play unit, it'll have upgraded from JvR in front of the net to Tavares and it'll be more skewed towards a normal rotation of 2/3 - 3/4 of the time going to the top unit.
LeafsNation75
Registered User
On the night you mention Eichel getting 5 points against the Oilers and Matthews getting 1 point in another game, maybe the Sabres win didn't get that many headlines because both them and the Oilers were horrible last season, where as whatever the Leafs and Matthews did got more because Toronto was a winning team and sells more headlines based on the population.
Why is hitting 30 goals once so important? I just pointed out 2/3 seasons have been significsantly shortened and he's not had fewer then 24 once. He's also hit 30 assists every time, almost 40 on just 67 games last year while Matthews hasn't done it one time. Why ignore that? I literally just said it. If it were so easy he would be doing it and he even came out and said he wanted to get more assists not even 2 weeks ago.
Kessel was more of a victim of circumstance.
Not everyone can be surrounded by a tremendous nucleus like Auston is. Auston may bring it the most, don't get me wrong but there's no denying he has a true team around him where-as Kessel didn't have that in Toronto in his time and neither has Jack in Buffalo.
This whole Get back to me when he hits 30 G or PPG is irrelevant I just showed you he cae with-in 3 pts and 4 pts in two seasons battling injury, with no players of the W.Nylander calibre on his line.
So were talking about a difference of a "few pts" here, and that's your argyument. "60 pt Jack", yeah to someone not paying attention. Since Auston came in (When there's been the same level of competition) Eichel has put up 57 in 61 then 64 in 67 .So if were going to ignore logic and games played you should be calling him "65 pt Auston" that would be the exact same average difference, since Matthews has never got more then 69 (if you think games played doesen't matter) all this talk about ice time too. Give me 18 mins a game with a W. Nylander, then 20 without a player of his calibre, when a washed up Jason Pominville to this point is the best player your with on the regular. All people have said in here is his numbers should improve regularly with a Skinner and a Reinhart and a few of you just can't take that for some reason. Eichel is one of the most dynamic, elite young forwards in this game and anyone who has watched him MORE then a dozen times will tell you that.
Saying Eichel has had ample opportunity when it's just been one more year is kind of funny. Yeah such a great opportunity in BUFFALO to hit Point Per Game. Notice how no one in Arizona, Vancouver. Carolina, Rangers, etc hit point per game? Because it's hard when you lack talent around you. Even then Eichel again missed going PPG by 3 and 4 pts respectively back to back in just his 2nd and 3rd year playing with two injuries that have been known to linger for months. When people say Eichel = Matthews (Essentially everyone but the most die-hard Leaf fans) they're not doing it to BASH TORONTO or get on AUSTON, they're doing it because Eichel is THAT GOOD. You guys take it as some kind of insult, and to be honest there are only a handful of guys in the league right now (Scheifele, Barkov, Need to see more from Barzal then a year) Point is if a difference of a few points is your main argument I don't understand the argument. Given how much better his linemates are projected to be you seem rather confident he wont improve his point pace of the last 2 years by a mere 2 points. Kind of strange considering he's healthier, a year older and has better puck movers on the back-end like Dahlin now as well. It just makes little sense. I have no problem with anyone picking Matthews but the few Leaf fans who have a problem with the rest of the league saying Eichel is on par with Matthews only offends those who don't regularly watch Eichel play the game. Pretty fitting.
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Snippit
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I'm not saying he's better than Matthews...I'm saying your argument sucked.
Pre-season games are proof now. Yeah...that's my cue to leave.
Isaac Nootin
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Matthews, he's already the superior talent and now will line up on a stacked PP1.
His 5 on 5 line is improved this year as well with Marleau replacing Hyman.
I'd say 90-95 for Matthews, and 75-80 for Eichel.
His 5 on 5 line is improved this year as well with Marleau replacing Hyman.
I'd say 90-95 for Matthews, and 75-80 for Eichel.
Bla bla bla, muh teammates>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TOI+PP TOI(also don't ever mention Matthews playing with the 3rd/4th line trashbuckets named Hyman and Brown) according to you.
Matthews has always been the better goal scorer, Matthews has always produced more and Eichel has had ample opportunity to prove otherwise.
The bottom line is that the onus is on you to tell me why a WAY worse goal scorer, NON-ppg producer and a guy who has mad more TOI and more PP TOI in a career ONE YEAR LONGER still has NOT out produced Auston Matthews is somehow the EXACT SAME as him.
Yeah pre season games are the latest in a large sample of Matthews being better than Eichel, sorry you want to ignore the following:
40 goals for Matthews in his FIRST year, Eichel doesn't even have 30 yet in 3 years
PPG in his second year, Eichel hasn't gone ppg in 3
More TOI and PP TOI for Eichel producing lesser results
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