Matthews vs Dahlin

[Walt22]

...and one less NHL award, where many people thought AM was better.
Laine has also played 11 more games, and 4 more playoff games..and doesn't have more playoff goals.

Many people as in the people who couldnt compete in sports so they wrote stories about it instead? That is like having beauty pageants judged by blind guys.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I didn't actually complain, I made an observation. Buffalo can sing Dahlin's praises all they want, no sweat off my ass. I was describing a phenomena, you on the other hand are attacking a fan base and laughing at jokes and complaints that aren't there. It's odd but it's nice you can be proud of it.

One thing you need to remember, is it isn't just BUFFALO singing Dahlin's praises.

EVERYONE did.

Then Buffalo won the lottery and will get him, so the fans are just following everyone else.

This is not as if "SABRES FANS" are hyping a player up. Leaf fans calling him overrated have actually made this GENERATIONAL D-Man seem underrated on here.

Don't even try and act like if he wasn't a Leaf prospect you wouldn't be.

For the record I've barely spoke about him because I like to wait and see but we have every right in thr world to be excited for him.

If this was Dahlin vs McDavid then I'd be comfortable with McD.

But I'm not comfortable with Matthews depite his top end- talent. There's a differrence of 30 plus pts between players.


If Dahlin is going to be in the Norris conversation for most of his career, I can't see why people would think picking Dahlin is the wrong choice.

 

[LeafsNation75]

One thing you need to remember, is it isn't just BUFFALO singing Dahlin's praises.

EVERYONE did.

Then Buffalo won the lottery and will get him, so the fans are just following everyone else.

This is not as if "SABRES FANS" are hyping a player up. Leaf fans calling him overrated have actually made this GENERATIONAL D-Man seem underrated on here.

Don't even try and act like if he wasn't a Leaf prospect you wouldn't be.

For the record I've barely spoke about him because I like to wait and see but we have every right in thr world to be excited for him.

If this was Dahlin vs McDavid then I'd be comfortable with McD.

But I'm not comfortable with Matthews depite his top end- talent. There's a differrence of 30 plus pts between players.


If Dahlin is going to be in the Norris conversation for most of his career, I can't see why people would think picking Dahlin is the wrong choice.

If some Leafs fans are calling him overaerated or saying he's not a generational defenseman which is pushing it, I say it's because the moment they won the 1st in 2016 a lot of the opinions about Matthews changed just because he would be going to Toronto.

 

[BlueBaron]

One thing you need to remember, is it isn't just BUFFALO singing Dahlin's praises.

EVERYONE did.

Then Buffalo won the lottery and will get him, so the fans are just following everyone else.

This is not as if "SABRES FANS" are hyping a player up. Leaf fans calling him overrated have actually made this GENERATIONAL D-Man seem underrated on here.

Don't even try and act like if he wasn't a Leaf prospect you wouldn't be.

For the record I've barely spoke about him because I like to wait and see but we have every right in thr world to be excited for him.

If this was Dahlin vs McDavid then I'd be comfortable with McD.

But I'm not comfortable with Matthews depite his top end- talent. There's a differrence of 30 plus pts between players.


If Dahlin is going to be in the Norris conversation for most of his career, I can't see why people would think picking Dahlin is the wrong choice.

The minute you called a player who has never played a game generational you destroyed your argument.

If he was a Leaf prospect I would be thrilled but I would not be constantly comparing him to established players saying he was better or calling him generational. I didn't with Matthews so I don't see why I would start now.

Dahlin is an Elite young prospect with a high ceiling, but he has a road ahead of him yet to reach the lofty expectations that are being thrown around out here.

Also Jack, I am on the record for counselling Sabres fans to try and avoid the mistakes of Oiler and Leaf fans, but it seems you'd rather use that to justify doing the same. It's your choice of course.

Your opinions on Matthews vs McDavid are cute and all, but not sure what that has to do with Dahlin. The guy to compare him with is Hedman.

I think the real thing you are missing though is that it is not a given he is a Norris trophy winner at any time in his career. Treating this assumption like it is a fact is how words like overrated come up.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

If some Leafs fans are calling him overaerated or saying he's not a generational defenseman which is pushing it, I say it's because the moment they won the 1st in 2016 a lot of the opinions about Matthews changed just because he would be going to Toronto.

So you're admitting then Leaf Fans are underating Dahlin because people underrated Matthews when he was set to be a Leaf after winning the 2016' Lottery?

2 wrongs don't make a right.

I never underestimated Matthews coming in, quite frankly I didn't see anyone do it either but if you say it happens I'll believe you because Toronto...

 

[Atomos2]

Of course you dont, you're a Toronto fan and it doesn't fit your agenda, go back and look. It was even worse.

I have no horse in this race just funny seeing you complain when the same exact thing happened with one of the players in the poll.

I did and you were wrong. There were way more Laine better than Matthews polls. Hell, I made a poll at that time prior to the draft that was Nylander, Marner, and Laine vs Matthews, Scheifele and Ehlers.

We were just trying to prove Matthews was a legit #1 pick.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

The minute you called a player who has never played a game generational you destroyed your argument.

If he was a Leaf prospect I would be thrilled but I would not be constantly comparing him to stablished players saying he was better or calling him generational. I didn't with Matthews so I don't see why I would start now.

Dahlin is an Elite young prospect with a high ceiling, but he has a road ahead of him yet to reach the lofty expectations that are being thrown around out here.

Also Jack, I am on the record for counselling Sabres fans to try and avoid the mistakes of Oiler and Leaf fans, but it seems you'd rather use that to justify doing the same. It's your choice of course.

Your opinions on Matthews vs McDavid are cute and all, but not sure what that has to do with Dahlin. The guy to compare him with is Hedman.

I think the real thing you are missing though is that it is not a given he is a Norris trophy winner at any time in his career. Treating this assumption like it is a fact is how words like overrated come up.

I am calling him Generational because that's what EVERYONE ON TV and ONLINE have vcalled him. How did I destroy my argument, I've heard multple people call him this and he is.

I think you should Quit using HE HAS PLAYED NO GAMES LOL as an attempt to get leverage. It's a weak argument. He's a highly, highly, HIGHLY touted first overall pick.

I'm not going to discuss anything further with you, I put the past posts behind me and started fresh but now your calling what I said about Matthews and McDavid cute as if it was just my opinion again. All I did was point out McDavid was a better talent who scores more. DOn't see how that's cute, because it's' true.

ANyway, I've said what I've had to say, reply if you want I wont be responding...we'll see I guess.

 

[93LEAFS]

I am calling him Generational because that's what EVERYONE ON TV and ONLINE have vcalled him. How did I destroy my argument, I've heard multple people call him this and he is.

I think you should Quit using HE HAS PLAYED NO GAMES LOL as an attempt to get leverage. It's a weak argument. He's a highly, highly, HIGHLY touted first overall pick.

I'm not going to discuss anything further with you, I put the past posts behind me and started fresh but now your calling what I said about Matthews and McDavid cute as if it was just my opinion again. All I did wass point out McDavid was a better talent who scores more. DOn't see how that's cute, it' true.

ANyway, I've said what I've had to say, reply if you want I wont be responding to you.

A bunch of people have said he isn't generational. I mean, only a week ago Pronman labelled him only the 5th best prospect to enter the league since 2014.

McKenzie has stated Jack Hughes would arguably go ahead of him, if he was eligible for this draft. That doesn't sound generational to me.

I mean, Button has inferred that Dahlin is generational, because he's a comparable prospect to Matthews, which would also make Matthews generational.

 

[LeafsNation75]

So you're admitting then Leaf Fans are underating Dahlin because people underrated Matthews when he was set to be a Leaf after winning the 2016' Lottery?

2 wrongs don't make a right.

I never underestimated Matthews coming in, quite frankly I didn't see anyone do it either but if you say it happens I'll believe you because Toronto...

What I'm saying is a small group of Leafs fans were upset at how Matthews got treated the moment Toronto got the 1st pick in 2016, so they want to do the same thing to Dahlin and the Sabres.

I'm not saying it's right, just giving my opinion why it's happening.

 

[ijuka]

Dahlin because at least everyone can agree he's the #1 pick and Sabres fans don't feel so insecure they feel the need to go to pollute Svechnikov's thread by talking about how good Dahlin is.

 

[BlueBaron]

I am calling him Generational because that's what EVERYONE ON TV and ONLINE have vcalled him. How did I destroy my argument, I've heard multple people call him this and he is.

I think you should Quit using HE HAS PLAYED NO GAMES LOL as an attempt to get leverage. It's a weak argument. He's a highly, highly, HIGHLY touted first overall pick.

I'm not going to discuss anything further with you, I put the past posts behind me and started fresh but now your calling what I said about Matthews and McDavid cute as if it was just my opinion again. All I did was point out McDavid was a better talent who scores more. DOn't see how that's cute, because it's' true.

ANyway, I've said what I've had to say, reply if you want I wont be responding...we'll see I guess.

Oh Jack...You aren't deemed generational until after your career, not before. Difficult to take anyone seriously who rates players based on psychic predictions. He has that potential, sure, but so do a few guys. Assuming it's already done? Why do they even play the games then. We can just hand out awards and Cups based on draft order.

Sorry Jack. Not having played games is just an inconvenient argument, for you. It's a very solid argument to support the statement, "you do not know what he will do in the NHL" because, though you think you do, you do not.

He could quit hockey next year and join Disney on Ice. You act like every top prospect always meets expectations. Look up the name Daigle and get back to me on that theory.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Oh Jack...You aren't deemed generational until after your career, not before. Difficult to take anyone seriously who rates players based on psychic predictions. He has that potential, sure, but so do a few guys. Assuming it's already done? Why do they even play the games then. We can just hand out awards and Cups based on draft order.

Sorry Jack. Not having played games is just an inconvenient argument, for you. It's a very solid argument to support the statement, "you do not know what he will do in the NHL" because, though you think you do, you do not.

He could quit hockey next year and join Disney on Ice. You act like every top prospect always meets expectations. Look up the name Daigle and get back to me on that theory.

OH dear Baron, why do i bother...lol, works both ways.

Saying he could be Daigle, sure...but how many 1's turn out like Daigle. And How many ones turn out like Tavares. Quite a few, and if Dahlin is anything like Tavares well then he's right there in Matthews world. I think he's more likely to be better then both.


Of course it hasn't happened yet, it's speculation. I'm not saying he's generational right now. But looking at him as a prospect, that's what the media has called him, though they need to stop using that word. I only used it to support the argument.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

What I'm saying is a small group of Leafs fans were upset at how Matthews got treated the moment Toronto got the 1st pick in 2016, so they want to do the same thing to Dahlin and the Sabres.

I'm not saying it's right, just giving my opinion why it's happening.

I got it, that's exactly what I said lol.

And It's wrong, 2 wrongs dont make a right, but I see your just explaining rather then saying it yourself.

It's actually a pretty good poll question, that's why it is 50/50.

 

[BlueBaron]

OH dear Baron, why do i bother...lol, works both ways.

Saying he could be Daigle, sure...but how many 1's turn out like Daigle. And How many ones turn out like Tavares. Quite a few, and if Dahlin is anything like Tavares well then he's right there in Matthews world. I think he's more likely to be better then both.


Of course it hasn't happened yet, it's speculation. I'm not saying he's generational right now. But looking at him as a prospect, that's what the media has called him, though they need to stop using that word. I only used it to support the argument.

Well there you go. You have just admitted he is not generational and it is possible he is not a constant Norris winner. That's a big step.

He is absolutely on a level Matthews was as a prospect but the difference is Matthews then went on to play the games. Dahlin still has to do that. I like his chances of becoming a star but it's just silly to pretend he is already there.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Well there you go. You have just admitted he is not generational and it is possible he is not a constant Norris winner. That's a big step.

He is absolutely on a level Matthews was as a prospect but the difference is Matthews then went on to play the games. Dahlin still has to do that. I like his chances of becoming a star but it's just silly to pretend he is already there.

Ok. I did only say GENERATIONAL as that is how he's advertised. This isn't just a Hedman type hype, this is Matthews Hype if not more. So it's a good poll.

And of course the difference is Matthews went out and played the games, you make it sound like Dahlin has even had a chance. He still has to prove it though if that's what you mean.....and I think this thread asked who would you take for the future so all this about Matthews already proving it is just meh until we find out what Dahlin does. Because it's not about the past.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Ok. I did only say GENERATIONAL as that is how he's advertised. This isn't just a Hedman type hype, this is Matthews Hype if not more. So it's a good poll.

And of course the difference is Matthews went out and played the games, you make it sound like Dahlin has even had a chance. He still has to prove it though if that's what you mean.....and I think this thread asked who would you take for the future so all this about Matthews already proving it is just meh until we find out what Dahlin does. Because it's not about the past.

As side from both being hyped as prospects prior to being drafted, it's hard for me to compare Matthews to Dahlin since one is a Centre and the other is a Defenseman.

I don't know how good an example this is but prior to this season some from TSN (Can't remember who) compared Matthews rookie season to McDavid's rookie season. Sure enough a lot of Oilers fans lost their minds on here that Matthews was being compared to McDavid, when they were just being compared to their rookie seasons only.

So maybe that's why some people don't want to compare Matthews to Dahlin.

 

[BlueBaron]

Ok. I did only say GENERATIONAL as that is how he's advertised. This isn't just a Hedman type hype, this is Matthews Hype if not more. So it's a good poll.

And of course the difference is Matthews went out and played the games, you make it sound like Dahlin has even had a chance. He still has to prove it though if that's what you mean.....and I think this thread asked who would you take for the future so all this about Matthews already proving it is just meh until we find out what Dahlin does. Because it's not about the past.

That is exactly what I mean. And yes, it's not about the past, but we can use the past to say for sure one has scored 40 goals. So predicting Dahlin to be better, while it could prove correct, it's not the safe choice. It is safe to say at this moment in time that Auston is more likely to be a star player simply because he is closer to that mark.

Love Dahlin, be excited, and hope for the best. I truly envy you guys getting him. In general though comparing undrafted rookies to established players really doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Halla]

Matthews has already shown he is a 40g/ppg+ player that can play at both ends of the ice.
50ESpts in 62 games is insane (Same as 92pt kessel in 20 less games)

If Dahlin can step in and put up Hedman/Karlsson/DOughty type numbers (ie 60+pts) you can make a case. until then he hasnt proven anything and gotta go with the sure thing

 

[Tage2Tuch]

A bunch of people have said he isn't generational. I mean, only a week ago Pronman labelled him only the 5th best prospect to enter the league since 2014.

McKenzie has stated Jack Hughes would arguably go ahead of him, if he was eligible for this draft. That doesn't sound generational to me.

I mean, Button has inferred that Dahlin is generational, because he's a comparable prospect to Matthews, which would also make Matthews generational.

That's all true, and relative.


As far as the last part.... that's true if you care about Button then I guess?

Matthews HYPE was Generational..... So far he's been a great young player, nothing Generational about his numbers at all though. Some very impressive things he's done, but he hasn't done anything McDavid-Ovechkin-Crosby plus 100 pt in there first seasons-like. Hasn't really come close to that either. I know you all HOPE and WISH that he is or will be but he's just not.(Not Yet anyway, save the incoming eichel bashfest...we aren't talking about him, but no from you 93LEAFS, I don't think you'd go there, but some woud I don't claim JE is Generaional for the record)

Dahlin, remains to be seen.

 

[93LEAFS]

That's all true, and relative.


As far as the last part.... that's true if you care about Button then I guess?

Matthews HYPE was Generational..... So far he's been a great young player, nothing Generational about his numbers at all though. Some very impressive things he's done, but he hasn't done anything McDavid-Ovechkin-Crosby plus 100 pt in there first seasons-like. Hasn't really come close to that either. I know you all HOPE and WISH that he is or will be but he's just not.(Not Yet anyway, save the incoming eichel bashfest...we aren't talking about him, but no from you 93LEAFS, I don't think you'd go there, but some woud I don't claim JE is Generaional for the record)

Dahlin, remains to be seen.

I said at the time, Matthews and Eichel weren't generational (and Laine). The only generational prospect is McDavid. Multiple MVPs and being the clear best player in the league was not a realistic projection for any of them. It was for McDavid, and previously Crosby and Lindros. All of those guys managed to win Harts before 23. Lindros couldn't pull it off due to his body failing him.

 

[Team Cozens]

I said at the time, Matthews and Eichel weren't generational (and Laine). The only generational prospect is McDavid. Multiple MVPs and being the clear best player in the league was not a realistic projection for any of them. It was for McDavid, and previously Crosby and Lindros. All of those guys managed to win Harts before 23. Lindros couldn't pull it off due to his body failing him.

Gotta add Hasek to the Generation list discussion.

2 Hart Trophy's
6 Vesina's
3 Jennings
2 Pearson

 

[93LEAFS]

Gotta add Hasek to the Generation list discussion.

2 Hart Trophy's
6 Vesina's
3 Jennings
2 Pearson

I'm referring specifically to guys projected to be generational when they entered the league. Hasek is a weird case due to being a goalie, playing behind the iron curtain and so on.

You don't have to be projected to be generational to be it, for example, Michael Jordan went 3rd overall, and was viewed at a minimum as worse than Olajuwon and Ewing when he was college in regards to projection for the pros (Bowie was a weird debatable case) or currently in the MLB a guy like Mike Trout. It has been very uncommon in Hockey since the NHL expanded and the common draft has been implemented. Guys like Lemieux, Lindros, Crosby and McDavid were all insanely hype. There's good arguments also for Ovi (who was highly hyped, but not to the level of Crosby) and Jagr, who was one of the first players drafted after the fall of the iron curtain with the ability to immediately report.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Dahlin because at least everyone can agree he's the #1 pick and Sabres fans don't feel so insecure they feel the need to go to pollute Svechnikov's thread by talking about how good Dahlin is.

Canes fans don't feel the need to knock Buffalo.
Everyone (especially in Canada) will knock Toronto.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Gotta add Hasek to the Generation list discussion.

2 Hart Trophy's
6 Vesina's
3 Jennings
2 Pearson

...and entered the league as a Hawk.

 

[dukeofjive]

Mathews pls and ty.