Matthews vs Barkov vs Draisaitl

[CatchyTune]

Not sure where you get your information. It has been noted, on this very site, that over the past 10 years, over 85% of players have their peak scoring season between ages 20 and 24. Almost nobody has peak offensive production at age 27 like you are suggesting. So, where did you get your numbers from?

Show me some playes who had long careers who's best years were from age 20-24. Where do you get your numbers from?


Guys like Taylor Hall, Jonathan Huberdeau, and Jamie Benn are all great examples who had their best years 25-28 off the top of my head. I could find some more but theres other ways I would rather spend my saturday night than researching hockey statistics for a stranger on an online forum.

 

[CatchyTune]

(1) Where did I claim that ?

(2) You don't ? Seriously ?

Matthews would have been a 40 goal scorer all 3 years if healthy, I dont get the whole "there are slumps" talk. He was 3 goals away and 6 goals away in 14 and 20 games missed. And no I have no idea how Tyler Bozak and Brian Savage are relevant in this thread

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Show me some playes who had long careers who's best years were from age 20-24. Where do you get your numbers from?


Guys like Taylor Hall, Jonathan Huberdeau, and Jamie Benn are all great examples who had their best years 25-28 off the top of my head. I could find some more but theres other ways I would rather spend my saturday night than researching hockey statistics for a stranger on an online forum.

LOL. You literally just proved the stats. You named 3 players out of hundreds in the last number of years who had their best seasons at age 26. It’s a fact that peak offensive production comes by age 23/24 at the latest for 85% of players.

unless you believe Matthews, the guy leaf fans once called “maybe the most nhl ready teenager of all time,” is a late bloomer? LOL. I know you don’t think that’s the case.

Matthews, now 22 years old, is at the top
Of his offensive game right now. And he’s on pace for a good (but not amazing) 83 points. Which would be a career high. Yikes

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Matthews would have been a 40 goal scorer all 3 years if healthy,

Again, you repeating this does not make it so...

 

[CatchyTune]

LOL. You literally just proved the stats. You named 3 players out of hundreds in the last number of years who had their best seasons at age 26. It’s a fact that peak offensive production comes by age 23/24 at the latest for 85% of players.

unless you believe Matthews, the guy leaf fans once called “maybe the most nhl ready teenager of all time,” is a late bloomer? LOL. I know you don’t think that’s the case.

Matthews, now 22 years old, is at the top
Of his offensive game right now. And he’s on pace for a good (but not amazing) 83 points. Which would be a career high. Yikes

Do you really think Matthews has reached his career peak at 22 years old? Who is a part of that 85%? Those 3 were just 3 I had off the top of my head. Matthews has not peaked at 22 years old lol

 

[CatchyTune]

Again, you repeating this does not make it so...

Make what so? I know he didnt hit 40 all 3 but you cant ignore what he did at his age

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Make what so? I know he didnt hit 40 all 3 but you cant ignore what he did at his age

Moving the goal posts, are we ?

 

[CatchyTune]

Moving the goal posts, are we ?

No. I never called him a 3 time 40 goal scorer. He is a 1 time 40 goal scorer but with the time he missed he "paced" to have 40 goals each year. I wont try and use pace in an argument or half this site will go bonkers

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

No. I never called him a 3 time 40 goal scorer. He is a 1 time 40 goal scorer but with the time he missed he "paced" to have 40 goals each year. I wont try and use pace in an argument or half this site will go bonkers

But you surely strongly implied it...

Matthews would have been a 40 goal scorer all 3 years if healthy, I dont get the whole "there are slumps" talk. He was 3 goals away and 6 goals away in 14 and 20 games missed. And no I have no idea how Tyler Bozak and Brian Savage are relevant in this thread

 

[CatchyTune]

But you surely strongly implied it...

Yeah, if he played all 82 games he would have scored 40 all 3 years. But he didnt play all 82.

If any of you like, you can start bashing Barkov any time. Because, I did say he was the best out of all 3 and all. But since i'm a leafs fan its allll Matthews talk.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Yeah, if he played all 82 games he (1) would have scored 40 all 3 years. But he didnt play all 82.

If any of you like, you can start bashing Barkov any time. Because, I did say he was the best out of all 3 and all. (2) But since i'm a leafs fan its allll Matthews talk.

(1) Replace "would" with "might" and I would agree with you.

(2) Playing the victim card ? Nice move. I'm simply stating that Drai, in my humble opinion, is better than Matthews.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

but with the time he missed he "paced" to have 40 goals each year. I wont try and use pace in an argument

You won't but you did ?

 

[CatchyTune]

(1) Replace "would" with "might" and I would agree with you.

(2) Playing the victim card ? Nice move. I'm simply stating that Drai, in my humble opinion, is better than Matthews.

Might? He was 3 goals off with 14 games to go one year and 6 goals off with 20 games to go the other.

Not playing victim. But I ranked them Barkov-Matthews-Draisaitl and not a word has been said about Barkov and its been all Matthews.

 

[CatchyTune]

You won't but you did ?

I just threw it out there, didnt argue it. Its not that deep

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Might? He was 3 goals off with 14 games to go one year and 6 goals off with 20 games to go the other.

Not playing victim. But I ranked them Barkov-Matthews-Draisaitl and not a word has been said about Barkov and its been all Matthews.

Exactly !

He might have done it.

But you can't say with 100% certitude that he would have done it.

Just as I can't say that he would not have done it.

Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I just threw it out there, didnt argue it. Its not that deep

As I wrote, you did...

 

[Sojourn]

I dont like the argument where he is only 22 but looks the same so far. Nathan Mackinnon was a 50-60 point guy his first 4 years, then in year 5 exploded for over 90. He is definitely not done developing at 22 years old. Players dont reach their prime until they are 26-27. Matthews has an extremely bright future

I didn’t say he was done developing. I said he’s been at a growth age since entering the league, and up the growth just doesn’t seem to be there. MacKinnon’s development path is pretty anomalous. He is far, far from the norm. Now, that doesn’t mean Matthews can’t continue to develop and become that 50/100 guy you’re claiming he will become, but his current trend doesn’t really support it either. It certainly doesn’t say that it’s clear he will become that, as you seem to be suggesting.

Also, I’m not sure where you got your information on player primes, but you’re wrong. Historically, a player would be entering his prime offensive years right about the time Matthews is in now.

Your entire counterpoint so far has been devoid of actual fact and heavy on what you want us to accept as true because it makes Matthews look better.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Exactly !

He might have done it.

But you can't say with 100% certitude that he would have done it.

Just as I can't say that he would not have done it.

Smoke and mirrors.

The chances of Matthews scoring at least 40 goals in his 2nd and 3rd year when he had 34 goals and 37 goals if he was never missed those games, was more likely to happen than those Jets fans saying Patrik Laine would have won the Calder Trophy instead of Matthews in 2017 if he never got injured.

I don’t know what your thoughts on that was at that time, still saying what Matthews goal totals might have been is easier to suggest if you only look at it as a what if scenario.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Enjoyable thread to read through. The hot takes are fabulous.

 

[LeafsNation75]

With Matthews at 42 goals, 29 assists and 71 point through 59 games and Barkov at 17 goals, 39 assists and 56 points through 55 games, I guess Leafs fans were right when we said Matthews was at least better than him or are there some who don't believe that?

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

With Matthews at 42 goals, 29 assists and 71 point through 59 games and Barkov at 17 goals, 39 assists and 56 points through 55 games, I guess Leafs fans were right when we said Matthews was at least better than him or are there some who don't believe that?

Barkov has also took a step BACKWARDS defensively this season whereas Matthews has done a complete 180 in that category.

 

[Aceboogie]

Yikes

Draisaitl a tier above both

 

[SillyRabbit]

I can’t find the post but someone already showed that most forwards statistically peak between 20-23.

Crosby’s best statistical season was at 19, Ovechkin 22, Stamkos 21, Malkin 22, etc.

Theres a common held conception that players hit their peak around 27-28, and that may or may not be true in terms of their overall ability as a player, but in terms of their best statistical seasons, most of them come quite early in their career, even more so for goal scoring.

 

[Regal]

I can’t find the post but someone already showed that most forwards statistically peak between 20-23.

Crosby’s best statistical season was at 19, Ovechkin 22, Stamkos 21, Malkin 22, etc.

Theres a common held conception that players hit their peak around 27-28, and that may or may not be true in terms of their overall ability as a player, but in terms of their best statistical seasons, most of them come quite early in their career, even more so for goal scoring.

A lot of that is due to the fact that historically scoring has trended down the past 40 years, or the player has missed time later. Malkin's actual best statistical season was at 25. Crosby's age 26 season was just as good statistically as his age 19 season, and of course he likely would have topped both between 23 and 25 has he stayed healthy. Ovechkin would have had his highest point totals at 24 had he not been suspended. And just going through the ages of the best statistical season in terms of points relative to the league of the other top overall scorers leaders since the full season lockout:

Thornton: 26
Kane: 27
Staal: 21
Getzlaf: 28
Kopitar: 30
H.Sedin: 29
D.Sedin: 30
Backstrom: 22
Zetterberg: 27
Spezza: 28
Marleau: 30
Kessel: 24
Bergeron: 33
Giroux: 30
Toews: 24
Iginla: 24
Perry: 25
Pavelski: 29
Parise: 24
St.Louis: 28
Datsyuk: 30
Tavares: 24
Wheeler: 31
Hossa: 25
Carter: 24
Pominville: 25
Stastny: 24

I doubt you'd find many players who actually peaked offensively at 20 and very few at 21. The sweet spot tends to be 23-26. Now a lot of star players hit their prime around 22 and have similar seasons to their best, and players like McDavid and Crosby who come into the league elite tend to be close to their peaks quite early, but the idea that most players peak in their early 20s offensively keeps being pushed around here and it's just not true

 

[Aladyyn]

Barkov has also took a step BACKWARDS defensively this season whereas Matthews has done a complete 180 in that category.
View attachment 321573View attachment 321581

Barkov's defense has been riding on reputation for a few years now