Matthews vs Barkov vs Draisaitl

[Dache]

The only above average linemate he has had is Nylander. The others like Marleau, Hyman, Johnsson and Kapanen are nothing crazy.

Fair enough, but average for Matthews would be substantially better than any wingers Drai could be given on his current team minus McDavid. And while Johnsson and Kap May be “nothing crazy” I’ve heard many claim that they are definitely above average. You may not be in that group I don’t know. My point being it’s often said Matthew plays with scrubs, but in the next thread Kap, Johnsson, Nylander are all great top 6 players. Gets frustrating when people try to have it both ways

 

[Dekes For Days]

You’re trying very hard to paint me as the bad guy here yet again and I’m not sure why.

I'm not trying to paint you as anything. I literally just answered your question. Stop trying to play the victim.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Stop trying to play the victim.

Voluntarily funny ?

Nice.

 

[Dekes For Days]

My point being it’s often said Matthew plays with scrubs, but in the next thread Kap, Johnsson, Nylander are all great top 6 players. Gets frustrating when people try to have it both ways

It's not having it both ways. This has been explained to you a bunch, and it's not difficult.

Kapanen, Johnsson, and Nylander are good, young players with good potential and they won't be thrown away for cheap, but they are not the quality of linemates that players of Matthews' caliber typically get; especially them as rookies and very early in their careers.

 

[Dache]

It's not having it both ways. This has been explained to you a bunch, and it's not difficult.

Kapanen, Johnsson, and Nylander are good, young players with good potential and they won't be thrown away for cheap, but they are not the quality of linemates that players of Matthews' caliber typically get; especially them as rookies and very early in their careers.

Can you provide any other link where this has been explained to me? Rather than just make a claim and be condescending as usual

 

[Dache]

I'm not trying to paint you as anything. I literally just answered your question. Stop trying to play the victim.

I see we’re just taking portions of the quote again. Nice.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Can you provide any other link where this has been explained to me?

Multiple times. Took me about one minute to find one in Marner megathread 9.

But when they’re talked about as Matthews line mates they’re scrubs that no other too Center has to play with

Players as rookies =/= their max potential as players in the future, even as early as next year

Never said anything about rookies. I was referring to the lines that people post as if they’re lesser line mates than other top centers get

You suggested people were being dishonest about representing the same player differently at different times, but you left out the whole fact that rookie players are not the same as those same players later in their careers in different roles. Matthews' linemates, being 40ish point rookies, were lesser options than other top centers get. Those same players, in future years, even as early as next year, will grow and become better.

Pretty much the same conversation.

I see we’re just taking portions of the quote again. Nice.

I quoted the relevant portion of your post that I was replying to. Again, nothing to feel victimized about.

 

[Dache]

Multiple times. Took me about one minute to find one in Marner megathread 9.


Pretty much the same conversation.

I quoted the relevant portion of your post that I was replying to. Again, nothing to feel victimized about.

again, picking certain parts of a post to paint a certain picture, and that’s not at all the same conversation as saying Matthews has average or below average line mates. All the quotes you posted are saying those players may improve which I’ve never disputed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

again, picking certain parts of a post to paint a certain picture, and that’s not at all the same conversation as saying Matthews has average or below average line mates. All the quotes you posted are saying those players may improve which I’ve never disputed.

I didn't pick certain parts of a post to paint a picture. Go back and read it for yourself if you want; I gave you the thread. You weirdly asked for evidence, so I gave you evidence. You were talking about the players that were Matthews' linemates and how people said they're good and valuable, and then you act astonished because at the same time people say Matthews has subpar linemates; which is the exact same thing you are talking about now. I showed you evidence of me explaining to you, again, why this is the case, and how it's not this double standard you claim it to be.

I don't know why you always try to do this weird act where you get all victimized and then claim things didn't happen or they happened differently when it's right in front of everybody. Just own up to the things you say. Back to the actual topic...

 

[Dache]

I didn't pick certain parts of a post to paint a picture. Go back and read it for yourself if you want; I gave you the thread. You weirdly asked for evidence, so I gave you evidence. You were talking about the players that were Matthews' linemates and how people said they're good and valuable, and then you act astonished because at the same time people say Matthews has subpar linemates; which is the exact same thing you are talking about now. I showed you evidence of me explaining to you, again, why this is the case, and how it's not this double standard you claim it to be.

I don't know why you always try to do this weird act where you get all victimized and then claim things didn't happen or they happened differently when it's right in front of everybody. Just own up to the things you say. Back to the actual topic...

I didn’t say anything about the value of Matthews linemates. Please stop making things up. Again I only responded to a poster saying that to compare Drai and Matthews, Drai would need “average” linemates. Not superstar average or whatever you’re trying to oddly prove with certain sections of my posts.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If the poll was done today it wouldn't be as close 31-37% split of the 3. Draisaitl was very good last year, but he has taken a giant step in progression this year. Barkov is Barkov, he is consistently good, Matthews has regressed on the ice. Disappears far too often for some games. I have it as an emphatic Draisaitl at #1, then slight drop to Barkov, and then a bigger drop to Matthews.

Draisaitl

Barkov



Matthews.

 

[nihlify]

Which question are people voting for in the poll? Those are two questions with two potentially different answers.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I didn’t say anything about the value of Matthews linemates. Please stop making things up. Again I only responded to a poster saying that to compare Drai and Matthews, Drai would need “average” linemates. Not superstar average or whatever you’re trying to oddly prove with certain sections of my posts.

In both of these and many other instances, you talked about the quality of Matthews' linemates and the perceived double standard you think exists. "Average" linemates refers to the average linemates relative to the player being discussed, or else the term is meaningless. As I've already explained, the average 1st line winger is different from the average 4th line winger. I have not made anything up, and I did not take "certain sections of your posts". I have given you everything you have asked; an answer to your question and evidence of it being answered in the past, as you requested. Please stop playing the victim while trying to misrepresent what I'm doing; not everything is a personal attack like you seem to think. If you have nothing else to say related to the thread, move on.

 

[Dache]

In both of these and many other instances, you talked about the quality of Matthews' linemates and the perceived double standard you think exists. "Average" linemates refers to the average linemates relative to the player being discussed, or else the term is meaningless. As I've already explained, the average 1st line winger is different from the average 4th line winger. I have not made anything up, and I did not take "certain sections of your posts". I have given you everything you have asked; an answer to your question and evidence of it being answered in the past, as you requested. Please stop playing the victim while trying to misrepresent what I'm doing; not everything is a personal attack like you seem to think. If you have nothing else to say related to the thread, move on.

the term average becomes meaningless if it’s not used relative to a specific player? Then saying the average first liner is not the average fourth liner. Isn’t that second sentence meaningless then?

 

[Dekes For Days]

the term average becomes meaningless if it’s not used relative to a specific player? Then saying the average first liner is not the average fourth liner. Isn’t that second sentence meaningless then?

It doesn't have to be relative to a specific individual player, but yes, it does need to be relative to a specific level of player; otherwise "average" has no defined baseline or parameters through which you can determine what the "average" is.

 

[Dache]

It doesn't have to be relative to a specific individual player, but yes, it does need to be relative to a specific level of player; otherwise "average" has no defined baseline or parameters through which you can determine what the "average" is.

So average NHL player is nothing?

 

[CatchyTune]

Fair enough, but average for Matthews would be substantially better than any wingers Drai could be given on his current team minus McDavid. And while Johnsson and Kap May be “nothing crazy” I’ve heard many claim that they are definitely above average. You may not be in that group I don’t know. My point being it’s often said Matthew plays with scrubs, but in the next thread Kap, Johnsson, Nylander are all great top 6 players. Gets frustrating when people try to have it both ways

I never said they were scrubs, they are good players but Kap/Johnsson were 40 point guys last year. Nylander missed the first 1/3 of the season than struggled out of the gate. Matthews still produced at his normal rate with Marleau and Kapanen. They are no Mcdavid thats for sure

 

[CatchyTune]

Really ?

High opinion of yourself, have you ?

Yoda?

I do think its funny how I ranked them

Barkov
Matthews
Draisaitl

And nobody says a thing about Barkov and tries to rip Mattthews to shreds.

 

[Dache]

I never said they were scrubs, they are good players but Kap/Johnsson were 40 point guys last year. Nylander missed the first 1/3 of the season than struggled out of the gate. Matthews still produced at his normal rate with Marleau and Kapanen. They are no Mcdavid thats for sure

oh absolutely. I’m not going to try and say that having McDavid isn’t a plus for Drai. But Drai significantly outscored Matthews last year and so far this year. If they were both producing the same and one had McDavid then sure it’s Matthews all day, my issue comes from the size of the gap in scoring and that I don’t think playing with anyone gives someone that much of a boost. In fact sometime it does the opposite with players that can’t handle that kind of skill or pace

 

[Mrb1p]

Matthews does not belong

 

[CatchyTune]

oh absolutely. I’m not going to try and say that having McDavid isn’t a plus for Drai. But Drai significantly outscored Matthews last year and so far this year. If they were both producing the same and one had McDavid then sure it’s Matthews all day, my issue comes from the size of the gap in scoring and that I don’t think playing with anyone gives someone that much of a boost. In fact sometime it does the opposite with players that can’t handle that kind of skill or pace

Drai is a great player dont get me wrong. But he is a winger who plays with the best player in the world. Barkov and Matthews are both young elite #1 franchise C's who dont have superstar linemates. I dont see how Drai is better than either of these guys.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I dont see how Drai is better than either of these guys.

Those blinders are really worth their money...

 

[CatchyTune]

Those blinders are really worth their money...

Would you take a winger who has the best player in the league on his side at all times over an elite young #1 franchise center, who neither have a superstar playing with them?

 

[Dache]

Drai is a great player dont get me wrong. But he is a winger who plays with the best player in the world. Barkov and Matthews are both young elite #1 franchise C's who dont have superstar linemates. I dont see how Drai is better than either of these guys.

I get what you’re saying. But it’s not like Barkov and Matthews have bad linemates. They play with good/very good players in their own right. Yes Drai has a better linemate, but also puts up substantially more points. Having said that I can understand if Matthews or Barkov are your picks, hell I even voted Barkov when this poll first came out. But it is debate worthy that’s for sure

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Would you take a winger who has the best player in the league on his side at all times over an elite young #1 franchise center, who neither have a superstar playing with them?

I do not deal in hypothetical.

I'll take the better producer who also has a better 200-foot game.