Matthews vs Barkov vs Draisaitl

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Should they not play on the power play together? Or 4on4 or 3on3?

ridiculous how much draisaitl gets punished for playing with a good player

Nobody is punishing him for that playing with a good player. They are punishing him for his performance when he is not with that player.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Lmao. Why don't we wait for Matthews to score even 80 points before calling him elite.

 

[Regal]

I don’t care, should they not play together at 4on4 or 3on3? In my post I didn’t stutter when I said 5on5

They should play together because they're good together, but you're still not accounting for how much he's aided by McDavid in that scenario. I mean if you care to add some context you should care to add all of it

 

[KidLine93]

Ok as long as we wait for Draisaitl to crack 60 points centring his own line all year, instead of being glued to McDavid as a winger because he’s been unable to carry his own line.

waiting for matthews to break 75 points without Nylander or brown on his line

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

waiting for matthews to break 75 points without Nylander or brown on his line

The problem Matthews has is Draisaitl is twice as good of a playmaker and nearly as good of a goal scorer. Draisaitl is also better defensively and a more reliable two way player.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They should play together because they're good together, but you're still not accounting for how much he's aided by McDavid in that scenario. I mean if you care to add some context you should care to add all of it

Did you forget how to read.

I clearly stated, “IF HE NEVER PLAYED A MINUTE WITH MCDAVID AT 5on5, HIS POINT TOTALS WOULD OF BEEN 83”

 

[booyakasha]

The problem Matthews has is Draisaitl is twice as good of a playmaker and nearly as good of a goal scorer. Draisaitl is also better defensively and a more reliable two way player.

no doubt

 

[QuietContrarian]

Well alot of things are going his way as of late..

Seems everything is going in.

Still would like to see what he could do centering his own line.

 

[Ctrain2k]

Well alot of things are going his way as of late..

Seems everything is going in.

Still would like to see what he could do centering his own line.

off the top of my head he’s hit 3 or 4 posts where he’s beaten a goalie clean already.

 

[Hustlr]

waiting for matthews to break 75 points without Nylander or brown on his line

Well that’s a little disingenuous since he had 73 in 68 last season without Nylander for the whole year...

 

[Hustlr]

no doubt

quadruple, at least

 

[QJL]

These are two different questions...

My answer is Barkov for both.

 

[Esko6]

off the top of my head he’s hit 3 or 4 posts where he’s beaten a goalie clean already.

NHL stats say he has 2 posts

 

[ole ole]

Possibly a Rocket, top5ish in points...

Pretty hard to be top 5ish in points when you get next to nothing in assist. What do you think,he's gonna score 100 goals.
Barkov and Drai are both better all around players than Matthews.

 

[McVespa99]

Seems like the whole city of Edmonton is this thread crying about Draisaitl to be ranked ahead of Matthews. Clear homerism.

Draisaitl’s 2 points again tonight were with McDavid. The guy just doesn’t produce at an elite rate like Matthews or Barkov when he’s centring his own line.

You don’t think Matthews would have a shot at cracking 60 goals being fed from McDavid 25 mins a night?

At the World Cup when Matthews played with McDavid he was putting up over ppg.

Why are Oiler fans so upset that people want to see Draisaitl produce elite numbers centring his own line if they are to rank him ahead of Matthews or Barkov? Matthews and Barkov playing on McDavids wing.... yeah I don’t even gotta explain anymore.

Congrats on the hot 3-0 start however, I even said in the Oilers projection thread that Draisaitl would be playing back with McDavid very soon. Soon was half a game into game 1 lol.

And Yet Drai is leading in this poll. I didnt know the Oilers had that many fans....

 

[McVespa99]

(Mod) You’re always anti leaf. I can understand an Oiler fan going to bat for their player as a homer.

Comparing them as players centring their own line Draisaitl is outclassed. Fking James Neal has 6 goals playing with McDavid when he has like 7 all last year.

Draisaitls stats are fake and inflated when ranking him as a player until he does it on his own line. Matthews would score 60 goals with McDavid going purely off GPG and G/60.

Bottom line is if he’s a to be in the class of franchise centre like Matthews and Barkov he would centre his own line full time, PERIOD.

So what your saying is Marner is no good because he is not a center and he plays with a great center. Good to know

 

[Martin Skoula]

So what your saying is Marner is no good because he is not a center and he plays with a great center. Good to know

You know your position is weak when you have to invent strawmen lol.

Marner would not be a 94 point player if he had an average 1st line C instead of Tavares, just like Drai wouldn't be a 50/50 player if he had an average 1st line C instead of McDavid. The gap is bigger for how much Drai would fall because of how much better McDavid is than Tavares.

 

[Ctrain2k]

NHL stats say he has 2 posts

Like I said I can think of at least 3, in the VAN, LA, NYR games, there could be more not sure.

 

[McFlyingV]

You know your position is weak when you have to invent strawmen lol.

Marner would not be a 94 point player if he had an average 1st line C instead of Tavares, just like Drai wouldn't be a 50/50 player if he had an average 1st line C instead of McDavid. The gap is bigger for how much Drai would fall because of how much better McDavid is than Tavares.

How about the other winger? How about the defence they've played with? How about the powerplay cast?

People need to stop focusing solely on one player, and focus on the other 3 guys a player plays with while they're on the ice. Now, obviously Klefbom and Nurse are off to great starts offensively, but did the Oilers have a 20G 70P D last year? Did they have a third point per game player on the powerplay? Did they have quality 40-50P wingers to shuffle in and out on the wings when every coaches favourite line blender came out?

 

[McNuge]

Leafs fans making it very obvious they would trade Tavares, Marner, Rielly, Nylander, Andersen and the rest of the farm for McDavid. Truth is Drai has been much better than Connor this year so far and they put them together to get Connor going not the other way around. Drai is more ch better defensively, miles better playmaking and is just as good of a goal scorer once the coach told him to shoot the puck last year. Barkov is unreal and I'd put him and Drai in the same category, both above nostrils.

 

[Dache]

Anyone can play on the wing with McDavid. He’s a generational talent. He makes everyone he plays with look better.

So Pittsburgh had no problems finding Crosby suitable wingers?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How about the other winger? How about the defence they've played with? How about the powerplay cast?

People need to stop focusing solely on one player, and focus on the other 3 guys a player plays with while they're on the ice. Now, obviously Klefbom and Nurse are off to great starts offensively, but did the Oilers have a 20G 70P D last year? Did they have a third point per game player on the powerplay? Did they have quality 40-50P wingers to shuffle in and out on the wings when every coaches favourite line blender came out?

This kind of reminds me of the discussions about Crosby benefiting from playing with Malkin on the PP, ignoring who Crosby had to play with for the bulk of his career at 5on5. For instance, apparently Malkin inflates Crosby's point totals more than Backstrom inflates Ovechkin's because Malkin is better than Backstrom, despite the fact Ovechkin got the benefit of playing with Backstrom 20 minutes per night while Crosby only benefited from Malkin the 4 or so minutes on the PP.

 

[McFlyingV]

This kind of reminds me of the discussions about Crosby benefiting from playing with Malkin on the PP, ignoring who Crosby had to play with for the bulk of his career at 5on5. For instance, apparently Malkin inflates Crosby's point totals more than Backstrom inflates Ovechkin's because Malkin is better than Backstrom, despite the fact Ovechkin got the benefit of playing with Backstrom 20 minutes per night while Crosby only benefited from Malkin the 4 or so minutes on the PP.

I just think that people look at this far too simplistically. There's 5 guys on the ice not just 2, and the majority of the time everyone focuses only on those two. Good puck moving D who have some offensive talent for example contribute to offence far more than people give credit for.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This kind of reminds me of the discussions about Crosby benefiting from playing with Malkin on the PP, ignoring who Crosby had to play with for the bulk of his career at 5on5. For instance, apparently Malkin inflates Crosby's point totals more than Backstrom inflates Ovechkin's because Malkin is better than Backstrom, despite the fact Ovechkin got the benefit of playing with Backstrom 20 minutes per night while Crosby only benefited from Malkin the 4 or so minutes on the PP.

While it is true that people vastly underrate the impact of linemates on production (just as they do now with Matthews), and relative to many of his peers, Crosby's ES production was hurt by his ES linemates, Crosby's PP production made up a MASSIVE portion of his overall production at the beginning of his career, where he did have a ton of help and got more than "4 or so minutes".

In his 06/07 Hart, Lindsay, Art Ross-winning season, Crosby had over 50% of his total points on the PP.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I did a little experiment and looked at the top players in the game, and what their production would have likely looked like if they all played the exact same amount of time. I used 2017/2018 to present as the sample, and used 16.5 minutes at ES and 3.5 minutes on the PP, for a total of 20 minutes TOI/GP. Over an 82-game season:

Matthews: 97.8 points
Draisaitl: 90 points
Barkov: 83.4 points

Now, this isn't perfect, but it's a good way to see what production would look like on a more equal footing. Barkov and Draisaitl did have considerable jumps in their most recent season, however both on some unsustainable metrics, so that will be interesting to watch. However, when you consider that Matthews is the best goal-scorer, has had the worst linemates, has half of his PP sample on the 2nd PP unit, and is 2 years younger, on top of being the best point-producer and primary point producer, it's pretty clear who the safest bet to take going forward is; Matthews.

As for who will have the most points this season, Draisaitl's team has the worst depth, so he will likely play the most minutes. He also plays with McDavid, who is far superior to anybody either of the other two play with, so Draisaitl is probably the safest bet, especially with his great start.