Matthews vs Barkov vs Draisaitl

[CycloneSweep]

I see it this way

Matthews has more potential being the youngest

Barkov is the best defensively

Draisaitl is the best offensively

Based on CURRENT play I say Barkov and Draisaitl are very close can't go wrong with either with Matthews behind them

Matthews could be above them both. But he isn't right now.

 

[Saltcreek]

You wonder how that is? He’s over ppg his last 2 seasons we’ll on his way this year while being one of the top goal scorers.

Draisaitl never cracked 60 points when he was the centre on his own line even WITH Hall as his winger.

Well on his way? We are 2-3 games into thr season. let's wait until the halfway mark before making such statements.

 

[ManWithNoName]

You forgot, claim he's "playing injured" and "doesn't look right" when he returns to the line-up and slumps at any point for a period of time up to but not limited to 20-50 games afterwards.

Because that way, you've always got a convenient excuse.

I stand corrected and will add this to my list.

 

[QuietContrarian]

From what I've seen it's mostly Leafs fans on HF who are constantly bashing Draisaitl and it's a joke that anyone is even bashing this guy just because he plays with McDavid.

Who cares that he's plays with McDavid. At the end of the day the guy produces and that's all that matters. Sure he benefits from playing with McDavid and it boosts his stats but McDavid likely also benefits from playing with him as well.

I don't recall ever seeing any Draisaitl bashing on the Habs board and have only seen posts talking about how good the guy really is.

I am sorry, but I don’t understand, how having him last of the three and then giving reasons as to why, is bashing a player?
Drai is very good, and I would have him on the Jets any day of the week.

But, imo, his production would not be near 100pts and 50goals without McD or as a C and not a winger - That is just my personal opinion, and has nothing to do with bashing.


Now, that opinion may very well be wrong, but we will never know until he anchors his own line for a full season.

Oh, and just to add, I am not a Leaf fan.

 

[sparxx87]

Who is "calling you out"? When I saw you post that Matthews' production remains the same no matter who he plays with, I got curious and looked it up. Turns out you weren't correct, and I posted the stats that I saw to prove it (figured you wouldn't just take my word for it).



I'm not sure what this even means. I'm not manipulating or cherry picking any stats or isolating different sample sizes to fit a theory. I'm literally taking the seasons from 2016-17 to 2018-19 and posting what the combined stats are for Matthews with those various wingers. The sample size is literally his entire career minus the first 4 games of this season.

It seems to me you were wrong but don't want to admit it, so now you're trying to find reasons for why looking at Matthews' entire career with these wingers is somehow not applicable to the question of whether or not his production remains the same no matter which winger he plays with.

I wasn’t correct? Or was I not exactly precise but the point was still clear for anyone whose not interested in a petty semantics argument?

Gotta love the “numbers are facts” position.

I never suggested you manipulated stats, I said it’s important to assess the same sample. Some played half a season, some played 2.5 seasons. Does it need to be explained why you might not get a good read there?

1. Do you believe it’s more likely Kapanen is a hidden gem, head and shoulders above his teammates OR that it’s a hot stretch in a small sample that will normalize over the same period?

2. You ducked this one before - Do you not think there’s any natural ebbs and flows to the season or is every deviance explained by lines mates and nothing else?


Again, you’re making this science and it’s not. Please don’t @ me unless you’re trying to have an honest and reasonable debate.

Re; calling me out - yeah, seems suspicious that you’d challenge something I said when I was responding to an outrageous comment made from someone else. And now the petty semantics, it seems like you’ve got an agenda.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I am sorry, but I don’t understand, how having him last of the three and then giving reasons as to why, is bashing a player?
Drai is very good, and I would have him on the Jets any day of the week.

But, imo, his production would not be near 100pts and 50goals without McD or as a C and not a winger - That is just my personal opinion, and has nothing to do with bashing.


Now, that opinion may very well be wrong, but we will never know until he anchors his own line for a full season.

Oh, and just to add, I am not a Leaf fan.

I guess any skilled players point totals should be questioned.
McDavids scoring rate goes up with draisaitl on his line, we should question him too.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I guess any skilled players point totals should be questioned.
McDavids scoring rate goes up with draisaitl on his line, we should question him too.

But this thread is not about McD.

And in any case, Drai is no McD, and it is still not bashing Drai.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

If Draisaitl never played a minute of 5on5 time with McDavid last year he would of had 83 points.

Damn that hurts the Auston Nostrils zealot arguments.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Well on his way? We are 2-3 games into thr season. let's wait until the halfway mark before making such statements.

Neal will score 164 goals this year. He is well on his way afterall

 

[Stamkos4life]

If Draisaitl never played a minute of 5on5 time with McDavid last year he would of had 83 points.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you arrive at that number?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

If you don't mind me asking, how did you arrive at that number?

I took his 5on5 p/60 away from McDavid, times his time on ice, added his 3on3 4on4, power play and short handed points

 

[Stamkos4life]

I took his 5on5 p/60 away from McDavid, times his time on ice, added his 3on3 4on4, power play and short handed points

I don't think that's enough to be able to say definitively he'd get 83 points but I respect that. Thanks for the response.

I'll be honest, drai has out preformed my expectations.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Draisaitl has already proven to be better, and it is always hard to measure defensive play that Batkov brings. Since this question does not focus solely on goal scoring, Matthews is still without an assist this season.

I am going Draisaitl again this season.

 

[djdub]

Drai outperforms Matthews in almost every single metric there is. It's funny how all these arbitrary hypothetical arguments come out from Leaf fans when another player might be better than their own.

People need to remember, when you bring up all these arbitrary arguments about one player (i.e - Plays on McDavid's line, doesn't "play" center, etc), there are also arbitrary arguments that can be used against your player too (i.e Way better team, has been injured often, etc). Why not stick with facts and stats, players either make the best of the situations they are in or they don't, that's part of the player they are.

Based on TODAY, it appears to be Drai -> Barkov -> Matthews

That doesn't mean Matthews is a slouch. He's also the youngest, with a higher ceiling than both other players IMO. He hasn't reached it yet. Relax. It doesn't have to be so combative.

 

[McFlash97]

Draisaitl is pretty dam good. I'm starting to think this guy can hit multiple 100 + point seasons. His hockey sense is frightening.

 

[snipes]

Draisaitl is pretty dam good. I'm starting to think this guy can hit multiple 100 + point seasons. His hockey sense is frightening.

He’s an elite playmaker as well as being a triggerman.

Best backhand sauce in the league.

 

[Regal]

I guess any skilled players point totals should be questioned.
McDavids scoring rate goes up with draisaitl on his line, we should question him too.

They are questioned. It's no surprise that players generally produce better with better linemates. The issue with Draisaitl compared to most star players is that he's one of the few to play with someone better than him. The other issue is that his numbers away from McDavid don't just fall, they tank, while McDavid still produces like a star without Drai. And sure, part of that is that he plays with terrible wingers when not with McDavid that he wouldn't as the number 1C of most teams. But the numbers are so bad that it's a pretty big stretch to assume he could replicate his totals last year as the number 1C with regular linemates. And that's not taking into account the fact that his totals far exceeded what he's shown before or that he rode inflated percentages last year.

All of this doesn't mean he isn't a great player, it's just examinining the context behind his numbers last year. Yet so many Oiler fans just want to whine that it's hate or that no one else gets the same treatment or strawman the argument into calling him a mediocre player. But it's just being realistic. He's not going to score 50-50 with typical #1C wingers and likely won't ever again even as McDavid's winger, and he isn't a top 5 forward like his totals last year would suggest.

 

[Regal]

I took his 5on5 p/60 away from McDavid, times his time on ice, added his 3on3 4on4, power play and short handed points

He had 12 non-5v5 ES points with McDavid though.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He had 12 non-5v5 ES points with McDavid though.

I don’t care, should they not play together at 4on4 or 3on3? In my post I didn’t stutter when I said 5on5

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I wasn’t correct? Or was I not exactly precise but the point was still clear for anyone whose not interested in a petty semantics argument?

Gotta love the “numbers are facts” position.

I never suggested you manipulated stats, I said it’s important to assess the same sample. Some played half a season, some played 2.5 seasons. Does it need to be explained why you might not get a good read there?

1. Do you believe it’s more likely Kapanen is a hidden gem, head and shoulders above his teammates OR that it’s a hot stretch in a small sample that will normalize over the same period?

2. You ducked this one before - Do you not think there’s any natural ebbs and flows to the season or is every deviance explained by lines mates and nothing else?


Again, you’re making this science and it’s not. Please don’t @ me unless you’re trying to have an honest and reasonable debate.

Re; calling me out - yeah, seems suspicious that you’d challenge something I said when I was responding to an outrageous comment made from someone else. And now the petty semantics, it seems like you’ve got an agenda.

If you think 3 year sample sizes aren't accurate because they don't account for the various "ebbs and flows", then I honestly don't know what you'd accept as "proof" of the different production with different wingers for Matthews.

So I'm not sure there's even a point in discussing this if everything I bring up you brush off as "petty semantics". Literally every point I've made that has some validity is just "petty semantics" and "not having an honest and reasonable debate", yet you don't bring forth a piece of evidence that proves you were correct about Matthews' production remaining constant with every winger he's played with.

If anything, you're the one refusing to have an honest debate. You just just brush off anything I present as "semantics" and then accuse me of agenda without actually presenting your own evidence that suggests you were correct about Matthews' production remaining the same no matter who his wingers are.

 

[King1s]

Draisaitl and it will not be close. Followed by Barkov and Matthews trailing far behind with his 60-70pts

 

[King1s]

Seems like the whole city of Edmonton is this thread crying about Draisaitl to be ranked ahead of Matthews. Clear homerism.

Draisaitl’s 2 points again tonight were with McDavid. The guy just doesn’t produce at an elite rate like Matthews or Barkov when he’s centring his own line.

You don’t think Matthews would have a shot at cracking 60 goals being fed from McDavid 25 mins a night?

At the World Cup when Matthews played with McDavid he was putting up over ppg.

Why are Oiler fans so upset that people want to see Draisaitl produce elite numbers centring his own line if they are to rank him ahead of Matthews or Barkov? Matthews and Barkov playing on McDavids wing.... yeah I don’t even gotta explain anymore.

Congrats on the hot 3-0 start however, I even said in the Oilers projection thread that Draisaitl would be playing back with McDavid very soon. Soon was half a game into game 1 lol.

Lmao. Why don't we wait for Matthews to score even 80 points before calling him elite.

 

[6ix]

Lmao. Why don't we wait for Matthews to score even 80 points before calling him elite.

Ok as long as we wait for Draisaitl to crack 60 points centring his own line all year, instead of being glued to McDavid as a winger because he’s been unable to carry his own line.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

If Draisaitl never played a minute of 5on5 time with McDavid last year he would of had 83 points.

The correct number was 80, and that ignores that more than half of his points would still have come with McDavid on the ice in that scenario.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The correct number was 80, and that ignores that more than half of his points would still have come with McDavid on the ice in that scenario.

Should they not play on the power play together? Or 4on4 or 3on3?

ridiculous how much draisaitl gets punished for playing with a good player