Matthews ranks 101st among forwards in 5v5 ice time per game

[hector morrison]

Woll
Keefe

Cup

EZ

Ha...if only it were that simple! Maybe an accurate forecast!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

In all honesty... I'm trying really hard to see Babcock's point of view here. He's a very proven coach.

But I just can't.

Can someone give some sort of argument rationalizing what Babcock is doing? I'm hoping he's not just sabotaging the team... but is there *any* hockey argument to play Matthews so much less than other superstar players?

 

[Myopic]

This is simply Babs playing his "smartest man in the room" game by resting Mathews for the playoffs so he'll be fresh. Nobody else does that with their superstars but Babcock. The kid is 22, he's got energy to burn!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

This is simply Babs playing his "smartest man in the room" game by resting Mathews for the playoffs so he'll be fresh. Nobody else does that with their superstars but Babcock.

Matthews wasn't played any more than usual last playoffs.

 

[hector morrison]

In all honesty... I'm trying really hard to see Babcock's point of view here. He's a very proven coach.

But I just can't.

Can someone give some sort of argument rationalizing what Babcock is doing? I'm hoping he's not just sabotaging the team... but is there *any* hockey argument to play Matthews so much less than other superstar players?

I hate it...that Auston doesn't play more! However, sports science guys will tell you that there is an optimum amount of playing time,that should not be exceeded if you want the player to be at their best at all times. Not sure if they get into situational measures (which would be important) but I tend to think they are probly on the right track. The thing is ,they don't take every aspect into account. So,it isn't an exact science. Some here will try to convince others that Auston playing more does not mean he will score more! I disagree with my entire soul! Play the Lad,he is the best chance the leafs have to score ,when needed that is! I mean if they are up a by 2 or more in the 3rd then sure ,let him just roll with it!

 

[Myopic]

Matthews wasn't played any more than usual last playoffs.

That's not my point. But carry on...

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That's not my point. But carry on...

I have absolutely no idea what your point was then.

You specifically said that Matthews is being played less time in the regular season so that he can play more time in the playoffs.

That isn't what happened last year.

 

[DarkKnight]

He played 20 minutes last game, lead all forwards. I really don’t want to see him playing anymore than that at the moment. If we can continue to roll four lines effectively, it will be a big plus.

In the Game 7, Matthews had the exact same number of shifts as JT, they were just shorter due to game dynamics. That said, I was no fan of Babcock’s third period shit show, still shaking my head.

People may recall that Bancock did start upping Matthews minutes the last ten games or so last season, there did seem to be a ramping up as we got closer to the playoffs.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Matty needs to learn to become a gud pro before he starts getting 20+ minutes a game. Marleau knows..

 

[hobarth]

I agree with Babs, AM's game doesn't scream I deserve more TOI, he hasn't been committed to all aspects of the game but we are seeing some positive signs this year.

 

[Zybalto]

Starting to be given more ice. Matthews now at 66th in 5v5 icetime, just ahead of Toews.

 

[Duke Silver]

Starting to be given more ice. Matthews now at 66th in 5v5 icetime, just ahead of Toews.

What filters are you using here?

No two teams play the exact amount of time at 5v5, so doesn't it make more sense to show a player's 5v5 TOI as a percentage of his team's 5v5 TOI?

 

[Duke Silver]

This is a great point. Percentage of ice time is much more telling than total icetime. Otherwise you just include the factor of how many PP opportunities the teams have. Since your post, Matthews has gone up even with Tavares and Nylander has closed in on Marner. That sounds like an adjustment we should see at this point.

Perhaps I'd give some more Tavares time to Kerfoot while they figure things out, but it looks pretty good to me otherwise.

Tavares is clearly fatigued. I'd siphon off ~2 mins from his line's totals and give them to Lines 1 or 3.

 

[Zybalto]

What filters are you using here?

No two teams play the exact amount of time at 5v5, so doesn't it make more sense to show a player's 5v5 TOI as a percentage of his team's 5v5 TOI?

Just used straight toi/GP but strictly on the Leafs, he's now in a virtual tie with Tavares among forwards (Tavares has played 3 seconds more this year.)

 

[hoglund]

I have absolutely no idea what your point was then.

You specifically said that Matthews is being played less time in the regular season so that he can play more time in the playoffs.

That isn't what happened last year.

Maybe Babcock is doing the "load management" with Mathews, similar to what the Raptors did with Leonard last year. Personally I don't think that they should do that until they look like they're making the playoffs and in the Atlantic division being the strongest division in the league that won't be easy.

 

[Mess]

Did Leaf fans not notice how effective and impactful Leafs 4th and 3rd lines were in the last win with lines #1 and #2 no shows?

In order to increase the 5v5 TOI/g of Matthews or the Tavares line it means playing lines #3 and #4 even less.

That seems counterintuitive to me, to decrease the icetime of players playing well, to give more icetime to star players based on reputation and not performance and complain about usage.

I thought last game should have be a real eyeopener and lesson learned for those that complain this is a coaching problem and misuse of star expensive forwards issue.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Did Leaf fans not notice how effective and impactful Leafs 4th and 3rd lines were in the last win with lines #1 and #2 no shows?

In order to increase the 5v5 TOI/g of Matthews or the Tavares line it means playing lines #3 and #4 even less.

That seems counterintuitive to me, to decrease the icetime of players playing well, to give more icetime to star players based on reputation and not performance and complain about usage.

I thought last game should have be a real eyeopener and lesson learned for those that complain this is a coaching problem and misuse of star expensive forwards issue.

Even when the expensive star players are on fire, Babcock still plays them similar minutes.
I thought I’ve read posts from you claiming that, if the leafs are going to spend so much in their 4 best forwards, they need to be playing big time minutes every game?

 

[meefer]

Perhaps, Babs is just trying to evaluate 10+ new players on the team and outing them in situations to do so. 5 games is not 25. Give it time.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

I agree with Babs, AM's game doesn't scream I deserve more TOI, he hasn't been committed to all aspects of the game but we are seeing some positive signs this year.

This just screams disaster if we gave a guy an $11.7M x 5 contract who's not even committed to all aspects of the game.

 

[kevsh]

Unless I'm reading it wrong he's 66th now, right behind Tavares.

Remember one thing - if it hasn't been pointed out repeatedly in this thread - Leafs have two bona fide #1 centers. Most teams don't.

 

[CDN24]

Starting to be given more ice. Matthews now at 66th in 5v5 icetime, just ahead of Toews.

And he sits at 157 th in terms of points per 60 minutes at 5-5 league wide with 2.13. Thats good for 10th on the team as well behind guys like Spezza, Moore, Petan, shore, gauthier, kerfoot both russians.

 

[razkaz]

Did Leaf fans not notice how effective and impactful Leafs 4th and 3rd lines were in the last win with lines #1 and #2 no shows?

In order to increase the 5v5 TOI/g of Matthews or the Tavares line it means playing lines #3 and #4 even less.

That seems counterintuitive to me, to decrease the icetime of players playing well, to give more icetime to star players based on reputation and not performance and complain about usage.

I thought last game should have be a real eyeopener and lesson learned for those that complain this is a coaching problem and misuse of star expensive forwards issue.

You're right, the GOAT should be out there facing top lines to make it easier for Tavares and Matthews.


You try too hard sometimes.

 

[Eye Test]

I hate it...that Auston doesn't play more! However, sports science guys will tell you that there is an optimum amount of playing time,that should not be exceeded if you want the player to be at their best at all times. Not sure if they get into situational measures (which would be important) but I tend to think they are probly on the right track. The thing is ,they don't take every aspect into account. So,it isn't an exact science. Some here will try to convince others that Auston playing more does not mean he will score more! I disagree with my entire soul! Play the Lad,he is the best chance the leafs have to score ,when needed that is! I mean if they are up a by 2 or more in the 3rd then sure ,let him just roll with it!

I’m sure the sports science dep will look at diminishing returns and compare them to other players on the team to see if Matthews at 80% is more value able then say kapanen at 100%.

It would be impossible to account for all situations but I’m sure they have certain situational ratings(PP, PK, EN, left side draw etc etc). I also agree from my eye test that Matthews not at 100% is a better choice to score a needed goal than most players on the team who are 100%.

Only negative is Babcock’s usage.

 

[authentic]

He's like the Donald Trump of NHL coaches. Just get him out of here already.

 

[Zybalto]

And he sits at 157 th in terms of points per 60 minutes at 5-5 league wide with 2.13. Thats good for 10th on the team as well behind guys like Spezza, Moore, Petan, shore, gauthier, kerfoot both russians.

Since the start of the 2016-2017 season (min 2000 minutes):

NHL leaders in 5v5 goals/60:

1. Auston Matthews (almost .2 goals/60 ahead of anyone else since he entered the league as a rookie)

NHL leaders in 5v5 points/60:

1. McDavid
2. Kucherov
3. Stamkos
4. Marchand
5. Matthews

Matthews certainly looks like a generational 5v5 goal scorer who has done more with less than most of the guys at the top.

Really only 2nd to McDavid in 5v5 production when hes on the ice and many might argue ahead of McDavid if you put a premium on goals. Just because hes hit a few posts the last few games doesnt mean much. Hes an absolute beast of a player that's a couple of years away from his prime.